Why Not Owens?

[daa84]

my biggest gripe isnt necessarily with owens personally....i just dont like this organizations infatuation with players whose only good tool is speed..... speed is nice, but its kind of like boobs when you are looking for a wife...good boobs alone wont get it done, you gotta have personality character etc...boobs are just a bonus....if you can run, but only get on base at an average clip while hitting for absolutely 0 power...id file you more under the 1 night stand category...gotta be able to do the other more important things than run first...

[Kyyle23]

I dont know Daa84, i think boobs are a bad comparison. I never view boobs as "just a bonus"

[Dick Allen]

my biggest gripe isnt necessarily with owens personally....i just dont like this organizations infatuation with players whose only good tool is speed..... speed is nice, but its kind of like boobs when you are looking for a wife...good boobs alone wont get it done, you gotta have personality character etc...boobs are just a bonus....if you can run, but only get on base at an average clip while hitting for absolutely 0 power...id file you more under the 1 night stand category...gotta be able to do the other more important things than run first...

I think the deal is they are so slow as a team, anyone who can run they find interesting. Anyone who can run, play a postion they need help at and makes minimum is beyond interesting. Personally, I don't think Owens would hit more than .255 if he played everday in games that mattered, and with his lack of power, not just homeruns, it would be a below average lead off man. If the free agents get too pricey, maybe KW makes a run at Co Co Crisp.

[Rowand44]

I'd love to get Crisp. Especially if we're playing Fields and Dye in the outfield, it'd be great to have a guy who can cover a ton of ground in the outfield. I know he isn't an ideal hitter but I'd take Coco on this team in a heartbeat.

[BearSox]

why he shouldn't start:

 

-holes in his swing

-can't hit for powe

-has not shown the ability to consistently hit and get on bass

-no arm

[GreatScott82]

Owens is going to be our 4th outfielder in 2008.. and that will be a great asset to have off the bench. He's a solid baserunner and if Fields struggles out in LF for whatever reason he can take over out there. Now that Rowand is out of the playoffs I wonder if KW made a phone call? Or is he going to go balls out for Hunter? Stay tuned....

Edited October 7, 2007 by GreatScott82

[GreatScott82]

I think the deal is they are so slow as a team, anyone who can run they find interesting. Anyone who can run, play a postion they need help at and makes minimum is beyond interesting. Personally, I don't think Owens would hit more than .255 if he played everday in games that mattered, and with his lack of power, not just homeruns, it would be a below average lead off man. If the free agents get too pricey, maybe KW makes a run at Co Co Crisp.

Crisp wouldn't be a bad option. However the Red Sox will be looking to aqcuire a 3b for him as Lowell will be a free agent. Would you trade Crede for him? I wouldn't

[BearSox]

Crisp wouldn't be a bad option. However the Red Sox will be looking to aqcuire a 3b for him as Lowell will be a free agent. Would you trade Crede for him? I wouldn't

I'd trade Crede for Crisp in a heart beat... I don't know if the Red Sox would though.

[Chombi]

I think it is that there doesn't seem like he has a tremendous upside.

 

As of now. I don't see him changing into an OBP machine. He has had success thus far, but not for a leadoff man we would ultimately need him to be. Maybe I am wrong about that, he started to make me somewhat of a believer over his stint in the show.

 

He shows no sign of developing power and his arm is pathetic at best.

 

His fielding seems to be above-average. I haven't looked at the deeper statistics on him but I dont imagine they will be bad/

 

He is basically a cheaper, younger Scott Podsednik without any mlb proven stuff or reliability.

 

That said, if we build the positions around him then I don't mind giving him a chance. As of right now though, we have so many holes that having him in the lineup is a wash.

 

One other thing I would like to point out. We are all excited about his base stealing abilities but stealing is gradually becoming a lost art in baseball. Meaning it is either overrated in today's game or completely underrated and a gem if you have it. I am unsure which though.

Edited October 10, 2007 by Chombi and the Fungi

[PAUL KONERKO 14]

His arm may not be great but he definitely gets pretty god jumps on the ball. I don't mind him much, just would rather have a better option such as Hunter or Rowand.

[DBAHO]

If you're going with the young guys in the rotation, you're probably not going to compete for the pennant. With that in mind, why not try and find a SS that you might be able to have for a few seasons?

Maybe a condition for Furcal coming to the Sox in a trade would be to work out an extension for him.

 

Of course I think in a contract year, he'll have a real good year. He was very banged up with injuries IIRC.

 

But your point on acquiring a SS for more than 1 season is well taken. Hence why trading for a young SS such as Chin - Lung Hu if he was available could be a better option.

[rockren]

Noodle arm, no power, not reliable enough to be a lead off hitter which we need. He could be a pretty decent player when all is said and done but I want him as my starting CF when options like rowand and hunter are the alternatives but I'd rather have him than pods or grinder.

 

I really hope we go another direction away from Owens. I've never seen a hitter NEVER bend his legs when he swings. He just has such an inability to spoil a low off-speed pitch that fooled him.

 

However, I won't lose my mind if the WSox decide to keep him in Center. At least he's the type of player that Ozzie wants and I don't hate that. I really feel like the more Ozzie Type guys we have, the better we'll be.

[Balta1701]

I really hope we go another direction away from Owens. I've never seen a hitter NEVER bend his legs when he swings. He just has such an inability to spoil a low off-speed pitch that fooled him.

Mark Teixeira does.

[rockren]

Mark Teixeira does.

 

 

LOL, well Tex is an exceptional hitter...but even that is no comparison as far as swing style goes.

 

I've never seen a guy strike out on a ball in the dirt while his legs are still straight. It baffles me.

[Wanne]

Could always see Garland and Uribe being shopped to the Pads for Kahlil Greene and others, unless I missed something and he was extended...

 

I never have understood the Greene love. I'd rather keep Juan and have him in the 9-hole.

One person I'd love to see KW figure a way to land is Wlad Balentien. I want some promising youth. He'd be steep...but I'm tired of this stopgap crap.

[witesoxfan]

I really hope we go another direction away from Owens. I've never seen a hitter NEVER bend his legs when he swings. He just has such an inability to spoil a low off-speed pitch that fooled him.

 

However, I won't lose my mind if the WSox decide to keep him in Center. At least he's the type of player that Ozzie wants and I don't hate that. I really feel like the more Ozzie Type guys we have, the better we'll be.

 

Welcome to Soxtalk

 

If the Sox had 9 Jerry Owens in the starting lineup, they'd probably lose 120 games.

[Chombi]

A lot of people on here keep mentioning Hunter and Rowand as our top targets.

 

Something tells me Andruw Jones and his terrible season may be right there or ahead of them. Kenny seems to have tried to get him a few times in the past and nothing has ever materialized.

 

I'd imagine he may be a few mil cheaper after how bad he was and he is the youngest of the 3. His average wont ever be there but he could put up some big numbers and play a mean CF for us.

 

I also can't see him getting a long term deal. Not at first at least. He may but I can see a 1-3 year deal for how bad he played. I hope he has anger and will bust his ass this offseason to stick it to the Braves and any clubs that pass on him. I wouldn't mind throwing him money for a 1 year deal with options. At worst, if we give him the chance and show him faith, he may elect to resign here as a sign of good faith even if he has a huge season.

 

I am just throwing it out there.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Chombi and the Fungi

[Kalapse]

Not only is Rowand 4 months younger than Jones but he also has considerably less ware and tare on his body and he is not represented by Reinsdorf/KW's nemesis (Boras). Andruw Jones has the body of a 34 year old and it's starting to show. IMO the Sox won't even make an attempt to sign Jones this offseason, he's off their radar.

 

You really don't think he'll get a long term deal? Boras has already set the price at $20M per over 7 seasons. When was he last time Boras got considerably less than what he demanded for one of his clients? And Boras clients do not believe in good faith, that's why they hired him in the first place, to get as much money as possible.

[Chombi]

Not only is Rowand 4 months younger than Jones but he also has considerably less ware and tare on his body and he is not represented by Reinsdorf/KW's nemesis (Boras). Andruw Jones has the body of a 34 year old and it's starting to show. IMO the Sox won't even make an attempt to sign Jones this offseason, he's off their radar.

 

You really don't think he'll get a long term deal? Boras has already set the price at $20M per over 7 seasons. When was he last time Boras got considerably less than what he demanded for one of his clients? And Boras clients do not believe in good faith, that's why they hired him in the first place, to get as much money as possible.

 

Didn't pay attention to Rowand being younger. I thought it was the other way around with those two. I thought that while thinking Jonesi s older then he claims. My bad.

 

I don't agree that Jones has more wear and tear. Yea he had a bad year but he still played 150+ games for the 11th year straight. he has never been injured, and you can claim he has lost a step but that step is still better then most guys in the majors.

 

Jones plays CF smoothly. Rowand plays it reckless. No fault in either, but Rowand has been injured I believe 2 times. A nose is minor but wasn't he in a big motorcycle accident like one of the first years we had him?

 

As far as contract. I don't think there will be a difference. Jones has Boras and will be relying on his career while Rowand will try and cash in off of this season in particular. Both should get 15 mil IMO. Both are aging but still in their "prime years". I'd trust Andruw to rejuvenate and repeat previous performances over Rowand repeating this year.

 

I know Jones has Boras and that spells trouble for us, but it's not like we don't do business with the guy, it's just harder. We have had to deal with him for Crede so let's not pretend it's impossible. Independent arbitrator.

 

Yea Boras planned on a 7 year 140 mil deal but he wasn't expecting his client to play the way he did. Even at the midway point he was selling the 2nd half turnaround that didn't happen. I didn't check since but early september he was on pace for a VORP of 8. That is bad for a guy who had been near 50 the previous two years and was at like 30 I think in 2004.

 

I say one year deal because that appeared to be his offer from the Braves he was mulling over and also what other teams have considered to offer him. The guy had his worst year in his career and people like yourself, seem to have basically written him off because of that and his agent's percieved plans. I wouldn't be surprised if someone gives him a long term deal, but it's not like there aren't tons of transactions/contracts that none of us see coming every year.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padre...25padnotes.html

 

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/b...swoes_0926.html

 

He wouldn't be the first guy to take this kind of deal...see Pudge, Millwood, Jeff Weaver.

 

He to me is still an elite player and will get a longer deal. 6 months ago it was a lock. I just think it's less likely and with a decent crop of OF's, he may have no choice but to take a rebuiler 15-20 mil one year deal. The good faith thing is probably out of the question though. I was over dramatizing his situation a little.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Chombi and the Fungi

[witesoxfan]

Not only is Rowand 4 months younger than Jones but he also has considerably less ware and tare on his body and he is not represented by Reinsdorf/KW's nemesis (Boras). Andruw Jones has the body of a 34 year old and it's starting to show. IMO the Sox won't even make an attempt to sign Jones this offseason, he's off their radar.

 

You really don't think he'll get a long term deal? Boras has already set the price at $20M per over 7 seasons. When was he last time Boras got considerably less than what he demanded for one of his clients? And Boras clients do not believe in good faith, that's why they hired him in the first place, to get as much money as possible.

 

I would have to imagine that you are looking at Kevin Millwood on like one of 3 separate occasions; Pratt has mentioned that the Braves offered him arbitration, Millwood found nothing on the market, and signed; thus, on a knee-jerk reaction, Atlanta traded him for Johnny Estrada. Millwood then did the same thing with Philadelphia, as he couldn't find a suitor and accepted arbitration. He then accept a 1 year, $7-mill deal after coming off an injury plagued season where he put up a 4.85 ERA in the NL - this is the same year that Duque got 2/$8 from the Sox and Matt Clement got 3/$25.5 from the Red Sox (when he was coming off a 3.68 ERA). So, again, Millwood got a very nice price for his s***ty performance. He then went on to have the second best year of his career, and signed a 5 year deal with Texas.

 

He sucks now.