Southern League Top 20

[BearSox]

Derek Lowe never made it into Baseball America's Top 50. Fausto Carmona never cracked BA's Top 75. And Brandon Webb and Chien-Ming Wang were never rated as Top 100 prospects by Baseball America.

 

But I will remember whenever someone asks me about a prospect, i will always say they wont make it, because the ODDS are with me.

 

I guess BA doesn't like sinker ballers.

[WatchIt]

Webb throws in the mid low-to-mid 90's...

 

As did 2000-2003 Lowe.

 

Wang can touch 95.

 

But you know, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

Webb throws his sinker between 88-91 MPH, and it looks the most effective(almost a heavy lefty slider) when it's sitting at about 89. He pops a four seamer in there at about 93 or 94 once and while, which adds to the sinkers effectiveness, but he makes his living throwing around 90 (mostly just under) with that sinker for the good part of games.

Edited October 11, 2007 by WatchIt

[DBAHO]

Eggy was unlucky no doubt, he had a fine season.

 

Because he's a sinkerballer though, that will only help him with his chances of becoming a part of the White Sox rotation in the future, with KW really looking for sinkerballers with our ballpark.

 

So he may not have definitive "major league stuff", but when he hits in the majors, if he can keep the ball in the park with a good defense behind him (which is what the Sox have up the middle), I think he has a decent chance of carving out a role at the major league level.

 

Next season at AAA will tell us quite a bit about Jack though.

[RockRaines]

Webb throws his sinker between 88-91 MPH, and it looks the most effective(almost a heavy lefty slider) when it's sitting at about 89. He pops a four seamer in there at about 93 or 94 once and while, which adds to the sinkers effectiveness, but he makes his living throwing around 90 (mostly just under) with that sinker for the good part of games.

He really sticks to a sinker, curve, change mix IIRC. His curve and sinker are plus-plus.

[WatchIt]

He really sticks to a sinker, curve, change mix IIRC. His curve and sinker are plus-plus.

 

That is correct. His change is nothing to sell short though. He throws it at around 81 and when he has a good feel for it, he will use it all night long mixed in with his sinker. The thing that makes his curve so effective is that he changes the speed on it, thus changing it's action, all the way from the low to high 70's.

[Chisoxfn]

That is correct. His change is nothing to sell short though. He throws it at around 81 and when he has a good feel for it, he will use it all night long mixed in with his sinker. The thing that makes his curve so effective is that he changes the speed on it, thus changing it's action, all the way from the low to high 70's.

Thanks for that info on Egbert and Welcome Aboard!!!!

[BlackBetsy]

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Andy-Sonnanstine.shtml

I have a problem with you here, Da Chort. You know just as well as I do that a 1.35 WHIP, 1.79 BB/9 and nearly 4/1 K/BB ratio are pretty solid peripherals. Heck, his WHIP was right at about Jon Garland's WHIP, and it's comparable to Scott Kazmir and Jeremy Bonderman.

 

The guy had a BABIP of .333...give him a tiny break here. As far as I'm concerned, Sonnanstine had a decent but unlucky rookie season. In fact, the main concern I would have about the guy is his HR/9 total. He may be walking too few guys...but he'll learn that it's better to be 2.5 BB/9 with a 0.8 HR/9 than it is to be 1.79 BB/9 with a 1.24 HR/9

[Gregory Pratt]

I don't know how many times you can get this wrong but I never said Egbert wouldn't make it. I guess the concept that each player in the minors has some chance of being a big league player, and that some have a better chance than others, is just crazy talk huh? Oooh "odds" -- what useless idea that is in trying to assess the relative worth of prospects.

 

And, really -- congratulations on spotting Webb, Lowe, and Wang in the minors and knowing they would make it when BA didn't. You should put out your own newsletter.

 

Don't mind Rock. He goes crazy anytime you insinuate that Jack Egbert isn't a top two prospect in baseball or a top two arm.

 

Jack's got a long way to go before he makes anything resembling a top ten list and I doubt he does much. He's certainly not a future two or three or ace or bullpen stud or whatever people seem to think he'll be.

[Heads22]

Don't mind Rock. He goes crazy anytime you insinuate that Jack Egbert isn't a top two prospect in baseball or a top two arm.

 

Jack's got a long way to go before he makes anything resembling a top ten list and I doubt he does much. He's certainly not a future two or three or ace or bullpen stud or whatever people seem to think he'll be.

 

Give us your rundown on Jack then. What have you heard about him? I'd like to know. I haven't seen anyone projecting him as a ace, but more a pitcher that should have an easier transition to the majors than most.

 

But then again, go on and predict that he may not make it - quite the limb to go out on.

[Gregory Pratt]

Give us your rundown on Jack then. What have you heard about him? I'd like to know.

 

You know what I've heard about him. You've told me three fourths of it.

 

And I've learned, If Heads likes a player, a prospect, it's over for that guy.

[Gregory Pratt]

Give us your rundown on Jack then. What have you heard about him? I'd like to know.

 

You know what I've heard about him. You've told me three fourths of it.

 

And I've learned, If Heads likes a player, a prospect, it's over for that guy.

[Gregory Pratt]

He doesn't have much of a fastball and as such doesn't belong on this list. Besides, I don't think he's better than anyone on that list, and he definitely has no high ceiling.

 

He's "smart," and he has good control, and he throws a good sinker, but with his fastball, he's going to have to prove some things at AAA and at the majors before he can be indignant that someone says he isn't a top prospect by any standard. I can't believe people are actually indignant because Jack Egbert isn't on this list.

[Flash Tizzle]

Here's what he had to say about Egbert in the chat.

 

"Egbert was in the mix for the list based on his performance, but he has a modest ceiling, as a No. 5 starter or middle reliever, and some kinks in his arm action. Like Chris Mason, he attacks hitters and has no fear, so he made the most out of his stuff this summer and made a very good impression in the league."

I just don't understand how anyone can project Egbert as a 5th starter or middle reliever while silmultaneously acknowledging his 'performance.' I'm not one to dismiss his age in comparison to the league or the ballpark conditions of Birmingham, but damn, what more can he possibly do? For medicore stuff, he somehow managed to improve all notable peripherals from last season. How often do fringe pitchers strikeout more than a batter per inning in AA and only surrender 3 HRs over an entire season?

 

The intersting issue here is if Williams agrees with Baseball America, perhaps he's thinking of dealing him now at his current value. Surely Egbert would be worth something.

 

 

 

[Heads22]

He doesn't have much of a fastball and as such doesn't belong on this list. Besides, I don't think he's better than anyone on that list, and he definitely has no high ceiling.

 

He's "smart," and he has good control, and he throws a good sinker, but with his fastball, he's going to have to prove some things at AAA and at the majors before he can be indignant that someone says he isn't a top prospect by any standard. I can't believe people are actually indignant because Jack Egbert isn't on this list.

 

I didn't know you had to have a 95+ fastball to be on the list. Maybe I missed that part.

[Gregory Pratt]

You have to be better than the people on that list, for one, and have a higher ceiling.

 

Where was the indignation when Heath Phillips wasn't rewarded for his season last year with inclusion on such a list?

[RockRaines]

Don't mind Rock. He goes crazy anytime you insinuate that Jack Egbert isn't a top two prospect in baseball or a top two arm.

 

Jack's got a long way to go before he makes anything resembling a top ten list and I doubt he does much. He's certainly not a future two or three or ace or bullpen stud or whatever people seem to think he'll be.

Why the f*** doyou have to go after me when we were having a nice discussion in this thread. Nobody was attacking anyone until you decided to post. Grow up kid.

Edited October 12, 2007 by RockRaines

[NorthSideSox72]

He doesn't have much of a fastball and as such doesn't belong on this list. Besides, I don't think he's better than anyone on that list, and he definitely has no high ceiling.

 

He's "smart," and he has good control, and he throws a good sinker, but with his fastball, he's going to have to prove some things at AAA and at the majors before he can be indignant that someone says he isn't a top prospect by any standard. I can't believe people are actually indignant because Jack Egbert isn't on this list.

What kind of fastball does he have? What kind of velocity, location and movement? I really don't know, but you seem to.

 

Egbert's track record speaks for itself. It doesn't mean he is a lock for some spectacular future, but looking at his cohorts at that level and their track records, I think its a very positive set of indications that he is likely to succeed.

 

I am looking forward to see how he does at Charlotte.

 

[Heads22]

You have to be better than the people on that list, for one, and have a higher ceiling.

 

Where was the indignation when Heath Phillips wasn't rewarded for his season last year with inclusion on such a list?

 

Phillips was often referred to as lazy and never put up anywhere near the periphs that Jack has.

 

 

[Heads22]

What kind of fastball does he have? What kind of velocity, location and movement? I really don't know, but you seem to.

 

Egbert's track record speaks for itself. It doesn't mean he is a lock for some spectacular future, but looking at his cohorts at that level and their track records, I think its a very positive set of indications that he is likely to succeed.

 

I am looking forward to see how he does at Charlotte.

 

He throws two fastballs a curve and a change. His fastball sits upper 80s to 90. His 2-seamer gets the groundouts.

[Gregory Pratt]

Why the f*** doyou have to go after me when we were having a nice discussion in this thread. Nobody was attacking anyone until you decided to post.

 

You were making incredibly sarcastic comments to hitlesswonder. I wasn't "attacking" you -- I was definitely teasing you, but I thought you could handle such, especially when you're going off about how someone claimed Egbert will never make it when they didn't say such a thing. And you think I should grow up? Your suggestion is noted. Now I think you should grow up.

 

What kind of fastball does he have? What kind of velocity, location and movement? I really don't know, but you seem to.

 

Egbert's track record speaks for itself. It doesn't mean he is a lock for some spectacular future, but looking at his cohorts at that level and their track records, I think its a very positive set of indications that he is likely to succeed.

 

I am looking forward to see how he does at Charlotte.

 

His velocity is mid-80s, if I recall correctly, and he's beating up minor leaguers in a pitcher's park at an age where success doesn't necessarily indicate he's got a huge ML future.

 

He definitely doesn't belong on that list, and it still baffles me that anybody thinks so.

Edited October 12, 2007 by Gregory Pratt

[Heads22]

You were making incredibly sarcastic comments to hitlesswonder. I wasn't "attacking" you -- I was definitely teasing you, but I thought you could handle such, especially when you're going off about how someone claimed Egbert will never make it when they didn't say such a thing.

His velocity is mid-80s, if I recall correctly, and he's beating up minor leaguers in a pitcher's park at an age where success doesn't necessarily indicate he's got a huge ML future.

 

He definitely doesn't belong on that list, and it still baffles me that anybody thinks so.

 

Why is his age a factor?

[WatchIt]

Thanks for that info on Egbert and Welcome Aboard!!!!

 

 

Well thanks for the welcome, but my info was on Webb. I was just merely commenting on a claim that he was a guy who threw gas, when he very rarely throws above 88-91.

[Gregory Pratt]

Give me a break -- you know as well as I that he's a fringe prospect who has a lot to prove. And since you didn't answer my question -- which player does he belong on the list over -- I'm not going to waste time explaining to you why Egbert's age is a factor.

[witesoxfan]

I love Egbert...he's probably my favorite prospect in the system right now because I'm almost positive he's going to contribute quite a few innings at the major league level, whether with the Sox or not, and I don't believe Pratt is saying he's not on the list because he sucks and he's going to suck. A lot of these lists are about stuff too, so that would also make sense as to why he's not on there. I don't necessarily believe he can't be a 3, but by all accounts, he doesn't have front of the rotation potential. That too is going to get more love in these lists than a guy with mediocre stuff but outstanding numbers.

 

That said, it is really hard to ignore all of his peripherals; K/9 of 9, K/BB of 4, 0.16 HR/9, 1.13 WHIP, 7.5 H/9, 1.93 GO/AO, and I'm sure there are more and more.

 

Point blank, he's not on the list because he doesn't have electric stuff, but he's got a future in the bigs. I don't know what kind, but I'm sure he has a future.

[Gregory Pratt]

I love Egbert...he's probably my favorite prospect in the system right now because I'm almost positive he's going to contribute quite a few innings at the major league level, whether with the Sox or not, and I don't believe Pratt is saying he's not on the list because he sucks and he's going to suck. A lot of these lists are about stuff too, so that would also make sense as to why he's not on there. I don't necessarily believe he can't be a 3, but by all accounts, he doesn't have front of the rotation potential. That too is going to get more love in these lists than a guy with mediocre stuff but outstanding numbers.

 

That said, it is really hard to ignore all of his peripherals; K/9 of 9, K/BB of 4, 0.16 HR/9, 1.13 WHIP, 7.5 H/9, 1.93 GO/AO, and I'm sure there are more and more.

 

Point blank, he's not on the list because he doesn't have electric stuff, but he's got a future in the bigs. I don't know what kind, but I'm sure he has a future.

 

That's about right -- and I'm also making the point that he has to post those periphals at AAA next, before anybody goes ga-ga, and after that he's got to produce something in the majors.