Konerko Speculation

[witesoxfan]

I think Paulie can command a few prospects. Maybe not all top flight but he still puts up good numbers and if you deal him to an AL team, they can DH if they want.

 

As far as Buehrle goes. Idk if we can get the kind of stuff you think for him. If we can, you would figure the Cardinals who are dying to get him would consider their top prospect Rasmus for him. I would be happy with Rasmus alone, anything else would be great.

 

Buehrle's thrown 200 innings every year of his career (except 2000), has a 3.80 career ERA, is 28, is signed to a very affordable contract, has good peripherals, has playoff experience, pitches in the AL and has his entire career in a park that very much favors hitters...there are a number of factors that play into my mind as to why Buehrle is the most valuable member of the organization.

 

As for Konerko; he's going into his age 32 year next year, which is generally considered the last year of a player's prime, he's signed for 3 more years at $12 mill for each year at a very easily replaceable position, he plays in a park that heavily favors a right handed pull hitter, and quite frankly, he's not an upper echelon 1Bman. He's a good player, but he's definitely not a guy you'll build your organization around, and aside from power, a bit of average occasionally, and a pretty good eye nowadays, he offers you nothing. That's definitely got value, but not 3 top prospect value, and I'd say you'd be lucky to get a top 5 prospect and then another top 10 for him; that, or the organization's minor league system blows. I could see two prospects in the 6-10 range of an organization, or maybe one top 5 prospect and then a younger player with a bit of raw talent, but no way do I see two top prospects for Konerko. If KW can pull it off, it'd be a great trade.

 

I don't see anything being considered on any frontier at this point; not with those two anyways.

[hitlesswonder]

At this point, there is only one player you might get 3 top prospects for in the White Sox organization, and that's Mark Buehrle, and even then some teams will question whether he is consistent enough to be the #1 of their staff. Also, Vazquez has the stuff, but he's on the wrong side of 30 and hasn't been nearly consistent enough the past 4 years or so, so you'd probably be able to get 1 or maybe 2 for him, but not much more.

 

Actually, I think Jenks might be the Sox most valuable trading chip. He's cheap and has 3 years before FA. And had an excellent season. He probably couldn't fetch 3 top prospects, but 2 top prospects wouldn't be out of the question.

 

[Chombi]

Buehrle's thrown 200 innings every year of his career (except 2000), has a 3.80 career ERA, is 28, is signed to a very affordable contract, has good peripherals, has playoff experience, pitches in the AL and has his entire career in a park that very much favors hitters...there are a number of factors that play into my mind as to why Buehrle is the most valuable member of the organization.

 

 

I don't see anything being considered on any frontier at this point; not with those two anyways.

 

I don't argue about Buehrle and how we feel about him. No question he is our top guy in the organization. At least in my eyes there isnt. I love the guy and was glad we kept him.

 

All I was saying is I don't think he can command a teams top prospect in every case, let alone multiple. If you think so, then there should be no reason KW hasn't moved him for a near lock for future allstar in Colby Rasmus and even someone like Jaime Garcia.

 

I think simply everyone outside of our organization think's Buehrle is nothing special. It is an argument I have had with Cub fans, Card fans and Royals during the last few season and I am never sure why. I love MB but for some reason not everyone else wears it on their sleeve. If he was available for FA, I have a feeling most teams would be playing a different tune and doing what they could to sign him, but he isn't and teams play him off as a 2-3 starter for some reason.

[Chombi]

Actually, I think Jenks might be the Sox most valuable trading chip. He's cheap and has 3 years before FA. And had an excellent season. He probably couldn't fetch 3 top prospects, but 2 top prospects wouldn't be out of the question.

 

He was 1 last season to me. MB was 2. Thome was 3 and Paulie was 4 as far as MLB guys went for our most tradeable chip.

 

He is young and dominant so I see why they stayed away but those screws in his elbow make me nervous.

 

I hate to say it but there is no one I am 100% comfortable with or don't think would be worth it to move.

[Kalapse]

Actually, I think Jenks might be the Sox most valuable trading chip. He's cheap and has 3 years before FA. And had an excellent season. He probably couldn't fetch 3 top prospects, but 2 top prospects wouldn't be out of the question.

He's 4 years away from free agency. 2005 didn't count as a full season so 2007 is only his second year of service time.

[Vance Law]

Yes, that would give the Sox tons of financial flexibility but my question is what do they use it on. They would have there entire lineup set and about 20M freed up. Would they spend that money on pitching, as it is obvious they would need to add at least one starter to the rotation (a rotation with Vaz/Buehrle and 3 unknowns would be awfully tough to win with).

 

 

What? Why won't anybody do the math. It's just counting. If you deal Contreras' $10 mil salary for Furcal's $13 mil salary, you haven't gained "tons of financial flexibility."

[greg775]

We know one thing: The Angels will deal for power this winter.

So Konerko would obviously be key for them.

We should try to rob them.

They need Paulie.

I don't like the proposed trade.

[witesoxfan]

Actually, I think Jenks might be the Sox most valuable trading chip. He's cheap and has 3 years before FA. And had an excellent season. He probably couldn't fetch 3 top prospects, but 2 top prospects wouldn't be out of the question.

 

I always forget the value of a closer, so naturally I forgot Jenks. The only thing really going against him is his elbow, but that appears to be fine, and he has really learned how to pitch.

 

At the very least, Buehrle and Jenks will fetch the most in trades, followed probably by Vazquez and who knows what after that...maybe Konerko.

[Soxfest]

I was listening to Boers & Bernstein at 4:30 today, and Boers said that this deal is being discussed by the Angels and Sox: Konerko and Garland for Figgins, Kochman and Shields. FWIW.

 

If that trade goes down..........FIRE KW at the same press conference:angry:

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

A little help - What's BAPIP?

[klaus kinski]

I like this proposal-mainly because the term PROSPECTS is absent

[NorthSideSox72]

A little help - What's BAPIP?

Batting

Average on

Balls

In

Play

 

[Steve9347]

He's 4 years away from free agency. 2005 didn't count as a full season so 2007 is only his second year of service time.

You might want to check that out... dude pitched a lot in 2005 (and was called up July 5)... if 2005 didn't count then I'd think the MLBPA would have something to say about that... teams would do it all the time.

[southsider2k5]

I was listening to Boers & Bernstein at 4:30 today, and Boers said that this deal is being discussed by the Angels and Sox: Konerko and Garland for Figgins, Kochman and Shields. FWIW.

 

Is there supposed to be a moratorium on this kind of stuff until after the World Series? This is probably just talk, but hey it makes for a busy message board.

 

You aren't going to be able to trade Crede until he shows he's healthy. I'm pretty sure if the Angels offered KW the trade you proposed, he would take it in a heartbeat.

 

The Angels didn't want Crede last year before he had back surgery, they sure as heck arent' going to give up anything for him now.

 

I love him too, but he was not very good down the stretch and I'm a bit concerned about him slowing down drastically due to being drastically overworked for the past couple seasons. That said, if he's healthy he's a stud reliever.

 

You see Shields a lot more than anyone else, was his velocity down, could he really be hurting?

 

 

Then I have a question. If Kotchman has shown enough power potential at the major league level to lead you to believe that he's already an equal/better offensive player than Konerko then why the hell would Stoneman be willing to do a Kotchman + substantial piece for Konerko deal? The reason he'd want Konerko would be to provide power at a position they're currently not getting it from (1B, Kotchman) but if Konerko isn't really an upgrade then why would a deal like this even be talked about? Throw in Stoneman's track record of refusing to trade youth/potential for experience/proven commodities and the discussion of a potential deal should halt immediately.

 

So to put simply, if Kotchman is really as good as you believe he is then why would the Angels even think about making a deal like this?

 

I also agree 100% with the second part of your post, well put.

 

 

Depends how desperate Arte Moreno is right now. If they can't get A-Rod, my guess is he forces Stoneman to make a big deal.

 

Remember they were after a big bat last off-season and they ended up with Garry Matthews Jr.

 

These two posts go together well. The Angels made a lot of promises when Moreno took over. He hasn't really delivered on them, and maybe Jason can correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like the natives are starting to get restless. They need a "big name" player to show that the Angels are serious about winning NOW. Konerko is the kind of name you can throw at the fans as a guy who can hold his own after Vlad.

 

2 quick Arod factoids I heard from Olney today. Boras is looking for an 11 year deal for his 32 year old client and according to Buster the Yankees are prepared to offer Alex a contract that averages $31M a year.

 

Now tell me, how and why would the Sox compete with that?

 

They wouldn't but then again I would be in shock if this was true. ARod is public enemy #1 in New York. Especially if they don't bring back Joe Torre, I see a TON of change in the Yankees next year. I think you might actually see the Yankees minus ARod, Posada, and Rivera to start with. They have a ton of decesions to make.

 

[southsideirish71]

Actually, I think Jenks might be the Sox most valuable trading chip. He's cheap and has 3 years before FA. And had an excellent season. He probably couldn't fetch 3 top prospects, but 2 top prospects wouldn't be out of the question.

 

You have had a hard on for trading Bobby all year long. Did he kick your dog or something. This is the first time in a long time we have a good closer and the first thing you want to do is spin him for prospects. He is young, and he is cheap. And dont give me the well we could get a Borowski type guy, because those types won't play well at the Cell. Ask the rest of our pen how getting the ball up works in our park in the summer. To me you build your pen backwards from Bobby. You have a Loogy in Boone, Waserman looks like he will stick. This is your starting point. Fill the rest from there.

[BigSqwert]

You have had a hard on for trading Bobby all year long. Did he kick your dog or something. This is the first time in a long time we have a good closer and the first thing you want to do is spin him for prospects. He is young, and he is cheap. And dont give me the well we could get a Borowski type guy, because those types won't play well at the Cell. Ask the rest of our pen how getting the ball up works in our park in the summer. To me you build your pen backwards from Bobby. You have a Loogy in Boone, Waserman looks like he will stick. This is your starting point. Fill the rest from there.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[JoeBatterz]

Would love to see this same proposed trade on the Burns-Boestein show on an Angels Board to see their take on it.

 

I am guessing their fans are just like us in that we would want more. For the record, I would want more as well.

[Steve9347]

You have had a hard on for trading Bobby all year long. Did he kick your dog or something. This is the first time in a long time we have a good closer and the first thing you want to do is spin him for prospects. He is young, and he is cheap. And dont give me the well we could get a Borowski type guy, because those types won't play well at the Cell. Ask the rest of our pen how getting the ball up works in our park in the summer. To me you build your pen backwards from Bobby. You have a Loogy in Boone, Waserman looks like he will stick. This is your starting point. Fill the rest from there.

I like your love of Bobby, but I am of the belief that trading him would be the best thing. Yeah, its nice that we have a guy who pitches 65 innings a year, SIXTY FIVE INNINGS WTF, but put that in perspective. If we can get some valuable pieces who play 9 innings a game and have some upside that's a no-brainer.

 

You have to have a lead before you can get a save, and selling high on a RELIEVER, no matter how good is something I can totally agree upon with an organization that has so many flaws.

Edited October 10, 2007 by Steve9347

[Chisoxfn]

What? Why won't anybody do the math. It's just counting. If you deal Contreras' $10 mil salary for Furcal's $13 mil salary, you haven't gained "tons of financial flexibility."

Contreras has more years left on his contract. I was mainly speaking of the financial flexibility gained in the Konerko/Garland deal.

[NorthSideSox72]

I like your love of Bobby, but I am of the belief that trading him would be the best thing. Yeah, its nice that we have a guy who pitches 65 innings a year, SIXTY FIVE INNINGS WTF, but put that in perspective. If we can get some valuable pieces who play 9 innings a game and have some upside that's a no-brainer.

 

You have to have a lead before you can get a save, and selling high on a RELIEVER, no matter how good is something I can totally agree upon with an organization that has so many flaws.

1. 65 of the most critical innings of the season.

 

2. So a team that has only a few strengths, you want them to trade one of the small number of those, who happens to be one of the best AND youngest AND cheapest closers in baseball? Why on earth would you do that, unless you got some kind of can't-refuse offer?

 

3. What exactly do you think Jenks will net you?

 

[Steve9347]

1. 65 of the most critical innings of the season.

 

2. So a team that has only a few strengths, you want them to trade one of the small number of those, who happens to be one of the best AND youngest AND cheapest closers in baseball? Why on earth would you do that, unless you got some kind of can't-refuse offer?

 

3. What exactly do you think Jenks will net you?

I was arguing the point of not trading him. People in this thread talk like you can't deal Bobby. If you can get a deal that improves your team elsewhere, I don't give a damn how good your closer is, he gawn imo.

[NorthSideSox72]

I was arguing the point of not trading him. People in this thread talk like you can't deal Bobby. If you can get a deal that improves your team elsewhere, I don't give a damn how good your closer is, he gawn imo.

As the club has no one else in the vicinity of being ready to be a major league closer, there is no way I'd trade Bobby to improve "elsewhere", unless the team got a decent closer back and/or the deal was just so incredibly good in the team's favor that it was a have-to type trade. In that highly unlikely case, you then go find an experienced closer. But other than that scenario, which won't happen, no deal. The only person on the team I'd be less interested in trading is Mark Buehrle.

 

[southsideirish71]

I like your love of Bobby, but I am of the belief that trading him would be the best thing. Yeah, its nice that we have a guy who pitches 65 innings a year, SIXTY FIVE INNINGS WTF, but put that in perspective. If we can get some valuable pieces who play 9 innings a game and have some upside that's a no-brainer.

 

You have to have a lead before you can get a save, and selling high on a RELIEVER, no matter how good is something I can totally agree upon with an organization that has so many flaws.

 

How many save Ops does a guy get on a 90 loss dog. He had 40 saves for a 90 loss dog. Whom are you replacing Bobby with, and pray tell how much will this guy cost. He does an amazing job of keeping the ball in the ballpark, which in our park is a necessity. So please no borowski types, no Jones types. We would need to replace the sub 3 ERA, the plus 40 saves, the sub 1 WHIP and the amazing .28 Hr/9 plus the VORP of 23.7.

[Steve9347]

I think you are all over-valuing the role of closer.

 

For the love of God, Borowski led the Major Leagues in saves with a 5+ era. This position isn't nearly as important as the others out there. We had an outstanding closer THIS year and what did that get us? A "90 loss dog"... ok, so you improve elsewhere and blow a few saves... whatever. Relievers are so streaky that you can pick up a Cliff Politte type for one year and he can be just as impressive as Bobby was. Relievers run so hot/cold, that I don't give a damn. Bobby is more consistent than that, he is good, but I just don't care... if you can get other positions filled up by moving a Bobby Jenks, I am all for that.

[Gregory Pratt]

I don't think Steve is advocating for a trade of Jenks for, say, Coco Crisp. He's just saying that if you get a really, really good deal, you take it, and I definitely agree. But I don't think that deal is coming. (Something like the Colon trade.)