Rowand Wants Big Money

[Soxfest]

AR can stay away he is NOT worth anything like that!

[beck72]

There will be enough teams with money going after all three that he'll likely get close to that. It actually isn't bad because if he's looking that there is a chance he'll end up getting a bit less. The only ugly thing is the years but given the market conditions a 4yr 13M a year type deal would be pretty solid (it would be a bit of a discount). I'm not saying it would be a smart deal but it would fit in with the current economics and if Rowand came close to this years production I would have no problem with it (note I'd drastically prefer picking up a young CFer or a cheaper CFer like Figgins).

Michael Bourn of the Phillies? Though he might be too much like Owens for my tastes.

[DBAHO]

Michael Bourn of the Phillies? Though he might be too much like Owens for my tastes.

If Rowand leaves the Phillies though, I assume they'll want to keep both Victorino and Bourn, although that could also depend if they traded Burrell for a third baseman considering they don't have much in the way of prospects.

[Gregory Pratt]

Aaron Rowand's a funny guy.

[GreatScott82]

Its looking more and more like the Twins will re-sign Hunter. http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1479785.html

THat leaves Rowand and Jones..since Jones should and will get more money than Rowand, he is the best option for us. His agent is just obviously doing his job. He wont get that deal from anybody! If Hunter wants 5 years for 75 mill to stay in Minny, than Rowand shouldn't have a problem with 4 years @ 11 mil/ season. Maybe up to 48 million in incentives.

[witesoxfan]

Its looking more and more like the Twins will re-sign Hunter. http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1479785.html

THat leaves Rowand and Jones..since Jones should and will get more money than Rowand, he is the best option for us. His agent is just obviously doing his job. He wont get that deal from anybody! If Hunter wants 5 years for 75 mill to stay in Minny, than Rowand shouldn't have a problem with 4 years @ 11 mil/ season. Maybe up to 48 million in incentives.

 

If the Twins are willing to give Hunter that contract, he'll resign. I saw nothing coming from the Twins party right there, just Hunter's.

[max power]

I'd give Hunter that contract, right now. Too bad I'm not a member of the sox organization.

 

 

I guess thats assuming he'd take that deal to come to chicago.

Edited October 14, 2007 by max power

[greg775]

Rowand is a good player.

The guys we have replaced him with the last 2 years were not good players.

Owens might be a good player soon.

Who's to say what he's worth in this market nowadays?

I'm sure he'll sign somewhere for close to what he wants.

I'd rather have Hunter just to try something new.

[Texsox]

Last year, if he had hit FA after putting up these sorts of numbers, he might well have gotten $14/6 or something like that from some team. This year, I'm just not sure...for the simple reason that there's 3 big name CF's on the market and a couple of smaller, "Bargain basement" type guys as well, and htat just might saturate the market for once. We'll see. If the market can ever saturate at a position and drive down the price, it'd be this year at CF, since there just don't seem to be that many teams in need right now.

 

Or a few times budget $$$$ for a free agent, and wind up with their fourth choice.

[GoodAsGould]

I wouldnt even want to give Rowand 10 million a year let alone 14 for 6 years..... If we are going to shell out that type of money for a CF it better be Hunter or Jones.

[YASNY]

I wouldnt even want to give Rowand 10 million a year let alone 14 for 6 years..... If we are going to shell out that type of money for a CF it better be Hunter or Jones.

 

Not Jones. He's not half the CF he used to be. He's gotten lazy or something.

[CanOfCorn]

Not Jones. He's not half the CF he used to be. He's gotten lazy or something.

 

Agreed. And I can't imagine the Twins will re-sign Hunter for 5/75. That's a lot of cash for a team that is going to have to think about locking up their youngsters REAL soon. If they do, Nathan is probably gone. Which for a team built on pitching...thatsa no good.

[southsider2k5]

Its looking more and more like the Twins will re-sign Hunter. http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1479785.html

THat leaves Rowand and Jones..since Jones should and will get more money than Rowand, he is the best option for us. His agent is just obviously doing his job. He wont get that deal from anybody! If Hunter wants 5 years for 75 mill to stay in Minny, than Rowand shouldn't have a problem with 4 years @ 11 mil/ season. Maybe up to 48 million in incentives.

 

Wow, the last thing I expected to see was the Twins re-signing Hunter. That changes the face of the off-season quickly. It also makes the guys who are out there much more valuable.

[GreatScott82]

Wow, the last thing I expected to see was the Twins re-signing Hunter. That changes the face of the off-season quickly. It also makes the guys who are out there much more valuable.

well it hasn't happened yet.. but saying that the Twins value Hunter possibly even more than Santana, that says an aweful lot. If the Twins re-sign Hunter, look for them to get a monster package this offseason for Santana. That leaves Rowand and Jones left, for some reason i can see the Rangers signing Jones. That leaves Rowand for us... i just hope KW doesn't over pay for him. If JD is getting 11 mill/ season, Rowand should at a maximum get 10 mill/season.

[southsider2k5]

well it hasn't happened yet.. but saying that the Twins value Hunter possibly even more than Santana, that says an aweful lot. If the Twins re-sign Hunter, look for them to get a monster package this offseason for Santana. That leaves Rowand and Jones left, for some reason i can see the Rangers signing Jones. That leaves Rowand for us... i just hope KW doesn't over pay for him. If JD is getting 11 mill/ season, Rowand should at a maximum get 10 mill/season.

 

If ARod opts out, I do see the Rangers trying to make a splash in the free agent market. I imagine they would try to get more pitching, but there really isn't any worthwhile starters out there IIRC. Maybe they could make a run at Mariano?

[witesoxfan]

well it hasn't happened yet.. but saying that the Twins value Hunter possibly even more than Santana, that says an aweful lot. If the Twins re-sign Hunter, look for them to get a monster package this offseason for Santana. That leaves Rowand and Jones left, for some reason i can see the Rangers signing Jones. That leaves Rowand for us... i just hope KW doesn't over pay for him. If JD is getting 11 mill/ season, Rowand should at a maximum get 10 mill/season.

 

.242/.306/.485/.791

 

Those were Jermaine Dye's splits on the day he signed his extension. It was for 2 years. He's also been injured (because of his body, not because he ran into a wall or had his ATV fall on him), saw his numbers drop dramatically this year, turn into a bad to mediocre defensive player, get slower, and get one year older (going from 33 to 34 is meaningful).

 

Aaron Rowand put up a .309/.374/.515/.889 line, plays great though occasionally incorrectly rated defense (some people think he's a godsend, some think he's mediocre, but really it seems overall he's in between those two), is quite durable when he's not letting ATV's fall on him or running into walls (he played 161 games this year, and played 157 for the Sox in 2005), stopped running this year but doesn't appear to be completely slowing down, and is just entering his prime.

 

Rowand's more valuable than Dye on the open market right now, and by quite a bit both in money per year and long-term. I do not want Rowand on the South Side for 6/$84, nor do I want him for 5/$70 or 6/$78, but he will get something very near both of those numbers. If it is the Sox, it's an understandable decision and it atleast plugs a hole, even if plugging said hole is only with a .750 OPS.

 

I also think if we are giving a long-term contract to a CFer, I'd rather go with Rowand over Hunter. Hunter's ankle leaves me with big time concern for him in the long run.

[witesoxfan]

If ARod opts out, I do see the Rangers trying to make a splash in the free agent market. I imagine they would try to get more pitching, but there really isn't any worthwhile starters out there IIRC. Maybe they could make a run at Mariano?

 

As I recall, Silva and Jennings are the top two starters on the free agent market. They are better off not spending money on pitching and just trying to develop some.

[Balta1701]

If ARod opts out, I do see the Rangers trying to make a splash in the free agent market. I imagine they would try to get more pitching, but there really isn't any worthwhile starters out there IIRC. Maybe they could make a run at Mariano?

A team like the Rangers is going to have to gamble on one of the old or hurt guys if they want to grab a pitcher this offseason. Colon, Schilling, Garcia might make sense for them, try to turn a rental into a good trade chip or some draft picks.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

.242/.306/.485/.791

 

Those were Jermaine Dye's splits on the day he signed his extension. It was for 2 years. He's also been injured (because of his body, not because he ran into a wall or had his ATV fall on him), saw his numbers drop dramatically this year, turn into a bad to mediocre defensive player, get slower, and get one year older (going from 33 to 34 is meaningful).

 

Aaron Rowand put up a .309/.374/.515/.889 line, plays great though occasionally incorrectly rated defense (some people think he's a godsend, some think he's mediocre, but really it seems overall he's in between those two), is quite durable when he's not letting ATV's fall on him or running into walls (he played 161 games this year, and played 157 for the Sox in 2005), stopped running this year but doesn't appear to be completely slowing down, and is just entering his prime.

 

Rowand's more valuable than Dye on the open market right now, and by quite a bit both in money per year and long-term. I do not want Rowand on the South Side for 6/$84, nor do I want him for 5/$70 or 6/$78, but he will get something very near both of those numbers. If it is the Sox, it's an understandable decision and it atleast plugs a hole, even if plugging said hole is only with a .750 OPS.

 

I also think if we are giving a long-term contract to a CFer, I'd rather go with Rowand over Hunter. Hunter's ankle leaves me with big time concern for him in the long run.

My hunch is he signs with the Sox for something around 4/$50M to 5/$60M. Considering the Sox' other apparent options, I'll be satisfied.

[gosox41]

As I recall, Silva and Jennings are the top two starters on the free agent market. They are better off not spending money on pitching and just trying to develop some.

 

 

That's funny. It's funny (in a sad way) because this regime hasn't shown the ability to develop pitching. IN fact it's just the opposite.

 

 

I'm just curious, who are the top 5 arms in the Sox farm system right now and where do you project them?

 

 

 

Bob

[Chisoxfn]

That's funny. It's funny (in a sad way) because this regime hasn't shown the ability to develop pitching. IN fact it's just the opposite.

I'm just curious, who are the top 5 arms in the Sox farm system right now and where do you project them?

Bob

Top 5 Arms:

Faustino De Los Santos (Potential #1 starter, more likely his upside lies as a #2 as there are very few legit #1 type guys). Still a few years away though and with that it means there is a greater chance that things prevent him from reaching that level (ie injuries or some other issues that get in the way). He has the makings of two plus pitches and if he can improve that changeup he'll have the raw abilities to be an above average starter.

 

Gio Gonzalez (Potential #3 Starter). I know some people may rate him a little higher as a starting prospect as he truly is one of the best left handed pitching prospects in baseball (But in no ways would I ever confuse him as the best one). Others would rate him a little lower. He has seen increased velocity on his fastball and a lot of improvement on his changeup to go along with an above average yacker (curve). He could see significant time in Chicago next season, but some in the org feel he still has a bit more to learn before moving to the next level.

 

Egbert (Potential #3 starter, more likely a #4 or #5). Egbert doesn't have great stuff, but he has a bevvy of solid pitches and tremendous command. He gets great sink on his fastball, uses all parts of the plate well and is the most likely on this list to pitch 5 plus seasons at the major league level. However, it would take a lot to go right for him to ever emerge as a front line starter. I think he has the ability to be a solid #3 and I'm fairly confident at worse he will be a #5 (barring injuries).

 

Broadway. See Egbert. I should note that i'm higher than Broadway than most and I could see him developing into a Garland-esque pitcher. He has awesome action on his pitches (ball moves everywhere) but is still working on improving the command on his pitches (they run all over him at times and in the majors that will get him in trouble). He throws a very nice curve with a ton of 12/6 bite when on. Worse case I see him turning into a valuable relief pitcher. Best case, he'll be an above average 3. Like Egbert/Gonzalez you could see him pitching in Chicago next year (and he would definitely pitch in a couple rotations).

 

Aaron Poreda. He has a #1 type fastball but it is far too early to project him as that. Great raw stuff, throws from the left side, but was very raw for a collegiate pitcher out of college. Still, anytime you hit 99 and have seen your command continue to improve you have to like the guys stuff. Needs to really learn how to pitch though and definitely needs to improve his secondary stuff. In a years time he may be at the top of this list (and if I were factoring upside into this he'd move up to the #3 spot on the list of pitchers).

[NorthSideSox72]

That's funny. It's funny (in a sad way) because this regime hasn't shown the ability to develop pitching. IN fact it's just the opposite.

I'm just curious, who are the top 5 arms in the Sox farm system right now and where do you project them?

Bob

You seem to be pointing your ire in the wrong direction. The Sox farm system is and has been for a few years now much stronger in pitching talent than it is in position player talent. Pitching-wise, its a pretty well stacked system right now - not among the top few teams by any means, but not near the bottom either.

 

Position players, on the other hand...

 

 

[Gregory Pratt]

You seem to be pointing your ire in the wrong direction. The Sox farm system is and has been for a few years now much stronger in pitching talent than it is in position player talent. Pitching-wise, its a pretty well stacked system right now - not among the top few teams by any means, but not near the bottom either.

 

Position players, on the other hand...

 

What does "stacked" mean? Two arms that may possibly someday do something good -- one guy who will be Matt Thornton with better control, if he doesn't develop control -- one guy who is going to have to be as smart as Mike Mussina to succeed, one guy who is very small and has serious durability questions but who has been good this year and others but hasn't always succeeded? "Stacked" is not the word for our system with any regard unless we're discussing fringe prospects.

[NorthSideSox72]

What does "stacked" mean? Two arms that may possibly someday do something good -- one guy who will be Matt Thornton with better control, if he doesn't develop control -- one guy who is going to have to be as smart as Mike Mussina to succeed, one guy who is very small and has serious durability questions but who has been good this year and others but hasn't always succeeded? "Stacked" is not the word for our system with any regard unless we're discussing fringe prospects.

Pick whatever word makes you feel better. Read my post and Chisoxfn's. The idea that the Sox' system cannot develop and has not developed arms is off base. I was clarifying. Note that I specifically said the system was not one of the best.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Pick whatever word makes you feel better. Read my post and Chisoxfn's. The idea that the Sox' system cannot develop and has not developed arms is off base. I was clarifying. Note that I specifically said the system was not one of the best.

 

Yeah, but it's definitely sub-par. None of these guys except DLS has a real shot at being an impact ML pitcher except for Gio who has an outside shot but I would never bet on it since he's so tiny.