Barry Rozner on ARod / White Sox

[witesoxfan]

The problem with that from a business standpoint, is that you aren't getting the meat of the return on investment within 3 years. The most money that Arod will produce for your team will come in years 5+ when he's approaching multiple records. From a pure baseball production standpoint, a 3 year deal makes the most sense, but to JR that's probably not the case. It has probably crossed JR's mind that he brought the greatest basketball player to ever live to Chicago, and now he has the chance to bring in and keep probably the greatest baseball player to ever live to Chicago. Reinsdorf would be a god in this city. Whether it all makes sense to us is a different story, but there are issues past the bottom line on a signing like this one. I'm definitely not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

 

but I thought bringing Bonds was a bad idea

[Dick Allen]

And I really think that the number of A-Rod jerseys being sold is somewhat exaggerated. While A-Rod may be a "star", he's not exactly embraced by fans in the same way that Jordan was. A-Rod is basically seen as a great regular-season player who doesn't get it done in the playoffs and who has a somewhat contrived personality. He's not perceived as a winner and he's not going to be the Derek Jeter of Chicago.

Jordan's personality has been somewhat "contrived". As much of a winner as he was, he wasn't his first 6 years in the NBA, but still was the biggest draw in Chicago and around the league. ARod in Chicago would be huge, but the Sox pretty much will draw 2 million + now for an average team. I can't see where ARod will mean every game is sold out, but his signing would mean a significant increase. Enough to offset his salary...............I can't see it.

[WCSox]

Jordan's personality has been somewhat "contrived". As much of a winner as he was, he wasn't his first 6 years in the NBA, but still was the biggest draw in Chicago and around the league. ARod in Chicago would be huge, but the Sox pretty much will draw 2 million + now for an average team. I can't see where ARod will mean every game is sold out, but his signing would mean a significant increase.

 

Jordan began playing in the NBA at the height of its popularity and at a time when the Bulls couldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as "championship." MJ was also massively more marketable than A-Rod, even before the championships. How many A-Rod commercials do you see on TV these days? Geez, Peyton Manning has had endorsement deals out the wazoo for years now, even before he finally won something of consequence. A-Rod may appeal strongly to a small segment of people, but he's far from universally-beloved by the masses in the way that MJ was. He was never big on the national scale while he was with the Rangers and New Yorkers never warmed up to him either. He's perceived as money-hungry, contrived, and a choke in the big games. A-Rod wouldn't even be as popular as Frank.

 

Agreed that the Sox would probably draw 2 million + without a competitive team with A-Rod there, but that's not saying much. They're not going to draw less than 1.7-1.8 million for at least the next few years, with or without him.

Edited October 19, 2007 by WCSox

[Rex Kickass]

You don't think it won't be a huge deal in 2009 when A-Rod starts chasing 600? or in 2012 when he chases 714?

[Gregory Pratt]

Personally I think ARod is probably worth more to the Marlins. They have a low payroll, he's from Miami, he will draw big, and help them get a new stadium. He'll get ripped for going there, but the only team with more championships the last 10 years than the Marlins are the Yankees. Ramirez, ARod and Cabrera would be a left side that could match probably any in history.

 

I don' think Rodriguez would be enough to bring a bunch of people there.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Reinsdorf is intelligent enough to know that signing a marquee player won't "win over" Chicago baseball fans. It didn't happen with Albert Belle, who appeared to be headed to the HOF back when the Sox signed him. The only way to "win over" fans from the Cubs, and the only way for the Cubs to increase their fan base, is to WIN. And since the Cubs can't win, and the Sox have very recently, it's not like the Sox have their back against the wall in terms of fan support.

 

The only way that JR and his board would ever sign A-Rod would be if A-Rod/Boras agreed to several "out" clauses in the contract (salary ranking, diminished skills, etc.) so that he could dump the remaining $200+ million on some other owner if the A-Rod experiment went awry. And since dedicating 1/3 of one's payroll to one player doesn't work in baseball, I seriously doubt that A-Rod would be in Chicago for more than a few years. And, most importantly, paying A-Rod an obscene amount of money wouldn't help the Sox win.

 

And I really think that the number of A-Rod jerseys being sold is somewhat exaggerated. While A-Rod may be a "star", he's not exactly embraced by fans in the same way that Jordan was. A-Rod is basically seen as a great regular-season player who doesn't get it done in the playoffs and who has a somewhat contrived personality. He's not perceived as a winner and he's not going to be the Derek Jeter of Chicago.

It didn't happen with Albert Belle because he came across as SUCH a jerk. Then he got hurt and they soon cut bait on him. I wouldn't so quickly denigrate the idea of winning the city. A-Rod keeps the Sox competitive during the years when the Trib is selling the Cubs...this is a unique time when WGN no longer will have a vested interest in picking Cubs over Sox. You look back at attendence history and Chicago has not historically been a Cubs town. It became a Cubs town when the #1 TV station and #1 Newspaper owned them. If the Sox can leverage WS + signing AROD plus a couple more play off runs? Don't discount the little kids in the suburbs growing up as Sox fans. That's a LOT of customers 20 years down the road.

[elrockinMT]

First of all, nobody is worth that contract. Its absurd.

 

Secondly, I would pay for Santana before I would pay for A-rod

 

 

I agree that the money is totally outrageous. But, you know someone will probably pay it. Sanatna would be a great addition to the team, but you wonder what he will demand and what teasm might pay. The finnacial demands of free agents continues to climb into the strata of just plain strange. However saying all that, I fully expect the Sox to go after A-Rod

[ottawa_sox]

I wonder if Borass will let Kenny or Jerry talk to ARod this time?

[rockren]

You don't think it won't be a huge deal in 2009 when A-Rod starts chasing 600? or in 2012 when he chases 714?

 

 

BINGO!

 

As much as I hate to say it...Boras is right. ARod, even at 30mil/year will make his team money.

 

Now 10 yrs/300 mil? I don't know how anyone could own up to owing a guy 90 million dollars (or more depending on the type of deal) to a guy on the other side of 40.

 

5 yrs/150 mil? He'd be worth it to the right team.

 

That team is not us if anyone is wondering what my opinion on that matter is. (If you were, thanks)

[WCSox]

You don't think it won't be a huge deal in 2009 when A-Rod starts chasing 600? or in 2012 when he chases 714?

 

Did Sammy Sosa make the Rangers a ton of money when he hit #600?

 

As for 2012, A-Rod will be 37 at that point. If he's not on the juice, what's to stop him from a Thome-like injury-induced decline? How many power-hitters can even pull off a full season at that age? Are Thome or Frank worth $30 million/year at this point?

 

It didn't happen with Albert Belle because he came across as SUCH a jerk. Then he got hurt and they soon cut bait on him.

 

Wrong order. They cut bait with him after he had arguably the best season ever for a Sox hitter. He got hurt later in Baltimore.

 

A-Rod keeps the Sox competitive during the years when the Trib is selling the Cubs

 

A-Rod couldn't keep the Rangers competitive in his prime. How is he supposed to do that for the Sox as he enters the downside of his career?

 

...this is a unique time when WGN no longer will have a vested interest in picking Cubs over Sox. You look back at attendence history and Chicago has not historically been a Cubs town. It became a Cubs town when the #1 TV station and #1 Newspaper owned them. If the Sox can leverage WS + signing AROD plus a couple more play off runs? Don't discount the little kids in the suburbs growing up as Sox fans. That's a LOT of customers 20 years down the road.

 

The Sox will attract more fans with a team that WINS... period. A-Rod is going to hawg a massive amount of the payroll and may actually PREVENT the Sox from winning. What happens four years from now when Buehrle is gone and the Sox need another top-of-the-rotation starer, but have no ace in their system, and A-Rod's salary is preventing the Sox from signing free agent Josh Beckett? Payroll flexibility is huge. What would've happened to the Sox if they had signed A-Rod back in 2004 and didn't have the extra money to sign Garcia and Contreras?

Edited October 19, 2007 by WCSox

[Kyyle23]

Did Sammy Sosa make the Rangers a ton of money when he hit #600?

 

 

Not in the same sentence, neighborhood, state, or planet. Not even close.

Edited October 19, 2007 by kyyle23

[Rex Kickass]

Did Sammy Sosa make the Rangers a ton of money when he hit #600?

 

As for 2012, A-Rod will be 37 at that point. If he's not on the juice, what's to stop him from a Thome-like injury-induced decline? How many power-hitters can even pull off a full season at that age? Are Thome or Frank worth $30 million/year at this point?

Wrong order. They cut bait with him after he had arguably the best season ever for a Sox hitter. He got hurt later in Baltimore.

A-Rod couldn't keep the Rangers competitive in his prime. How is he supposed to do that for the Sox as he enters the downside of his career?

The Sox will attract more fans with a team that WINS... period. A-Rod is going to hawg a massive amount of the payroll and may actually PREVENT the Sox from winning. What happens four years from now when Buehrle is gone and the Sox need another top-of-the-rotation starer, but have no ace in their system, and A-Rod's salary is preventing the Sox from signing free agent Josh Beckett? Payroll flexibility is huge. What would've happened to the Sox if they had signed A-Rod back in 2004 and didn't have the extra money to sign Garcia and Contreras?

 

Look, A-Rod was the difference between a Yankees team in the playoffs and a Yankees team that didn't make the playoffs.

 

Do I think he's worth 300 million over 10 years? No. 150 over 5? Probably.

[WCSox]

Not in the same sentence, neighborhood, state, or planet. Not even close.

 

True, the only things that those scenarios have in common are that both players are hired guns who have failed to achieve anything of note in the post-season and that the hype over 600 HRs has been replaced with rampant skepticism due to the steroids scandal.

 

I just don't understand the man-love for A-Rod. Why give a guy $300 million over the latter half of his career, with the hope that he'll put more butts in the seats, garner better TV and radio deals and that, if the Sox are really lucky, they might be able to cash in on A-rod breaking Bonds' HR record in 2017. That doesn't sound like a plan to win another championship, which is what Sox fans REALLY care about.

Edited October 19, 2007 by WCSox

[WCSox]

Look, A-Rod was the difference between a Yankees team in the playoffs and a Yankees team that didn't make the playoffs.

 

That is true. And he was also a massive liability for them IN the playoffs in '05 and '06.

 

Do I think he's worth 300 million over 10 years? No. 150 over 5? Probably.

 

I agree with that. Too bad it won't happen.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

That is true. And he was also a massive liability for them IN the playoffs in '05 and '06.

I agree with that. Too bad it won't happen.

 

Alex Rodriguez isn't a liability in any lineup. Has he been bad since Game Four of the 2004 ALCS? Yeah. But Alex Rodriguez in your lineup is never a liability.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I'm still not convinced that ARod would even sign with the White Sox if they were the highest bidder (which ofcourse they would never be). Why would he want to play for a team that is unlikely to make the playoffs ?

 

Why wouldn't he take less money to play for the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Dodgers, Padres, Angels, Cardinals, Astros etc. ?

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm still not convinced that ARod would even sign with the White Sox if they were the highest bidder (which ofcourse they would never be). Why would he want to play for a team that is unlikely to make the playoffs ?

 

Why wouldn't he take less money to play for the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Dodgers, Padres, Angels, Cardinals, Astros etc. ?

 

It'd make it easier on him. He sux in the clutch! It'd get the pressure off of him.

[WCSox]

Alex Rodriguez isn't a liability in any lineup. Has he been bad since Game Four of the 2004 ALCS? Yeah. But Alex Rodriguez in your lineup is never a liability.

 

A-Rod in 2005 playoffs: .133 BA

A-Rod in 2006 playoffs: .071 BA

 

I would say that those performances in the three-hole constitute a "liability."

 

[Gregory Pratt]

A-Rod in 2005 playoffs: .133 BA

A-Rod in 2006 playoffs: .071 BA

 

I would say that those performances in the three-hole constitute a "liability."

 

A failure, but not a liability. It's not like batting Byrnes 3rd.

 

But you and I have had these discussions about the playoffs and I think they're crazy as hell. I'm just happy you haven't brought up the football analogies yet.

[Dick Allen]

A-Rod in 2005 playoffs: .133 BA

A-Rod in 2006 playoffs: .071 BA

 

I would say that those performances in the three-hole constitute a "liability."

What about his playoff performances in 1997,2000, and 2004. You seem to be cherry-picking. He's the best player in the game. Personally, I don't think the Sox can make it work financially, but if JR feels otherwise, I don't see how adding the best player in baseball, one of the best who has ever lived is really going to be a bad thing.

[Dick Allen]

A-Rod in 2005 playoffs: .133 BA

A-Rod in 2006 playoffs: .071 BA

 

I would say that those performances in the three-hole constitute a "liability."

Paul Konerko came up big in 2005. He's a career .224 hitter in post season play. ARod is a career .280 hitter in the post season, and he's a liability.

[WCSox]

A failure, but not a liability.

 

Uh, yeah, because a failure is much better than a liability. Good one!

 

I'm just happy you haven't brought up the football analogies yet.

 

Since you're incapable of understanding them, I don't bother anymore.

 

What about his playoff performances in 1997,2000, and 2004. You seem to be cherry-picking.

 

I am, but you can't hit 30 and 170 points below the freaking Mendoza line in the playoffs in consecutive years if you're making $20+ million a year. Some people have a difficult time performing in pressure situations. Is A-Rod one of those people? I'm not sure at this point and I wouldn't want to spend $300 million to find out.

 

[WCSox]

Paul Konerko came up big in 2005. He's a career .224 hitter in post season play. ARod is a career .280 hitter in the post season, and he's a liability.

 

Paul Konerko doesn't make $25 million a year. I don't know about you, but I expect Boston-era Manny Ramirez playoff numbers for $200+ million guaranteed.

Edited October 19, 2007 by WCSox

[southsider2k5]

I'm still not convinced that ARod would even sign with the White Sox if they were the highest bidder (which ofcourse they would never be). Why would he want to play for a team that is unlikely to make the playoffs ?

 

Why wouldn't he take less money to play for the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Cubs, Dodgers, Padres, Angels, Cardinals, Astros etc. ?

 

Who was the last Borass client to take less money for anything?

[NorthSideSox72]

Just curious... how much effect do people think it has on A-Rod's situation that Torre is leaving?