2007-08 NBA Thread

[Balta1701]

Duncan went out with what appears to be a bruised knee and a sprained ankle. Out for quite a while it appears, although it shouldn't cost him the season unless the MRI's today find something worse than that.

[whitesoxfan99]

So it would be nice if Gordon remembered how to shoot and Hinrich remembered how to play the game of basketball.

[whitesoxfan101]

A loss like tonight is a prime example of how fatal a bad start is. Normally, a loss like tonight sucks, but you can say hey it was against a really good team desperate for a win (Dallas), and the Bulls hung real close despite not making shots. Problem is, the bad start means you CAN'T LOSE HOME GAMES, and tonight was a killer.

[DBAHO]

Magic finished off their road trip with an OT win over Golden State, probably best win of the season.

 

11-2 on the road, and we've only played 7 games at home.

 

Top 4 should be the minimum right now in the East for us.

 

And what about the rumors of Gasol not fitting into Iavaroni's uptempo system. Thomas + Nocioni + future 1st for Gasol?

[Balta1701]

And what about the rumors of Gasol not fitting into Iavaroni's uptempo system. Thomas + Nocioni + future 1st for Gasol?

Well, Nocioni couldn't be traded for another week and a half.

[DBAHO]

Well, Nocioni couldn't be traded for another week and a half.

Well it would have to be after that period obviously.

[ZoomSlowik]

If they can get Gasol for that, he better be on the Bulls by 9 AM on the 15th. I seriously doubt that though.

Edited December 5, 2007 by ZoomSlowik

[Rowand44]

If they can get Gasol for that, he better be on the Bulls by 9 AM on the 15th. I seriously doubt that though.

Everybody does love Hypnotoad.

[ZoomSlowik]

Everybody does love Hypnotoad.

 

"All glory to Hypnotoad!"

[DBAHO]

If they can get Gasol for that, he better be on the Bulls by 9 AM on the 15th. I seriously doubt that though.

Well apparently Iavaroni loves Thomas and thinks he could be the next Shawn Marion in his high paced offense.

 

Nothing will happen until the Feb Trade Deadline anyways, but Gasol just doesn't really fit into that offense right now.

 

A lineup of Milicic at C blocking shots, with Thomas and Gay at PF and SF with Miller at SG and Stoudemire / Lowry / Conley at PG is pretty decent for the future.

[ZoomSlowik]

Well apparently Iavaroni loves Thomas and thinks he could be the next Shawn Marion in his high paced offense.

 

Nothing will happen until the Feb Trade Deadline anyways, but Gasol just doesn't really fit into that offense right now.

 

A lineup of Milicic at C blocking shots, with Thomas and Gay at PF and SF with Miller at SG and Stoudemire / Lowry / Conley at PG is pretty decent for the future.

 

Yeah, that's why Thomas would almost certainly be part of the deal. I know they like Noc as well, that just doesn't seem like great value for Pau though. Granted his stock has dropped a bit with his start, but so has Tyrus' and basically everyone else's on the Bulls' team. Plus not that long ago they wanted Deng and Gordon for him. That'd be quite a drop-off in price.

 

Of course the problem is that with Gay around you don't really need Deng, and if Miller sticks around Gordon isn't that crucial either, and Hinrich has got to be poisonous right now with his contract/poor play, so they might have to take that offer.

[DBAHO]

Yeah, that's why Thomas would almost certainly be part of the deal. I know they like Noc as well, that just doesn't seem like great value for Pau though. Granted his stock has dropped a bit with his start, but so has Tyrus' and basically everyone else's on the Bulls' team. Plus not that long ago they wanted Deng and Gordon for him. That'd be quite a drop-off in price.

 

Of course the problem is that with Gay around you don't really need Deng, and if Miller sticks around Gordon isn't that crucial either, and Hinrich has got to be poisonous right now with his contract/poor play, so they might have to take that offer.

I don't know if that offer (Thomas + Noc + future 1st) for Pau would even work cap - wise.

 

The Bulls should be trying to dump Wallace's contract on someone. I wonder if ther Kings would consider a Wallace plus pieces for Bibby offer for example?

 

Because I guess one of Deng / Gordon / Hinrich may have to leave if they wanted to acquire Pau.

 

Also I didn't get what you meant with comparing Gay to Deng etc. since they're on different teams. Unless you meant Gasol?

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't know if that offer (Thomas + Noc + future 1st) for Pau would even work cap - wise.

 

The Bulls should be trying to dump Wallace's contract on someone. I wonder if ther Kings would consider a Wallace plus pieces for Bibby offer for example?

 

Because I guess one of Deng / Gordon / Hinrich may have to leave if they wanted to acquire Pau.

 

Also I didn't get what you meant with comparing Gay to Deng etc. since they're on different teams. Unless you meant Gasol?

 

I don't feel like doing the EXACT math, but it should be pretty close. IIRC Gasol is somewhere between 12 and 14 mil and Noc+Tyrus is around 10. Throw in Duhon or some other kind of filler and you're there. You're right though, I would think they'd want Deng or Gordon (or MAYBE Kirk, though his stock has to be really low right now).

 

Wallace would be a pretty tough sell, he's got two years left after this one on that albatross and is clearly in decline. That's probably why he jumped at our offer and signed rather quickly. After next season he's a super-valuable piece, but that is still a long way off.

 

I commented on Gay/Deng ect. because it affects the potential fits in the trade. I would think that's especially the case with Deng because of Gay being cheaper and farther from a pay day. I suppose you could play one at PF in that system, though that could be iffy.

Edited December 6, 2007 by ZoomSlowik

[whitesoxfan99]

So I missed the game tonight and saw Hinrich only played 16 minutes. Did he get hurt or benched for his crappy play?

[SoxAce]

Didnt see the game, but it looks like Duhon was damn good.

[whitesoxfan101]

Duhon needs to start at point, Hinrich is a 2. I feel like a broken record since I've been saying it for years now though. And it was nice to see Noah look like a real NBA player for once tonight.

[Balta1701]

So I missed the game tonight and saw Hinrich only played 16 minutes. Did he get hurt or benched for his crappy play?

Hinrich continues to have 2 of his fingers taped together for some reason I don't know if we've been told about, and at least the Radio guys did say that they appeared to be bothering him.

[Balta1701]

So I missed the game tonight and saw Hinrich only played 16 minutes. Did he get hurt or benched for his crappy play?

From Ze Trib:

The guard grimaced when hit during the third quarter on the sprained ligament between two knuckles on his left, non-shooting hand that he has played with all season. But that pain paled in comparison to his ongoing struggles, made more glaring by Duhon's efficiency.

 

Hinrich said the injury isn't affecting his play or his shooting, now down to 34.3 percent.

 

"I wish I could say it does," Hinrich said.

[Rowand44]

The Bulls have had like 90 billion shots rim in and out here in the last few minutes.

[whitesoxfan101]

The Bulls regular season ownership over Detroit is bewildering, but fun nevertheless. The problem with tonight is Ben Gordon and Kirk Hinrich continue to play like doo doo, as they were a combined 7 for 21 tonight from the floor. Kirk did contribute 6 dimes and 6 boards, but just not good enough and he also had 1/3 of the teams turnovers. Tonight was just utter dominance up front, as Smith, Wallace, and Deng combined for 33 points and 36 rebounds, and Nocioni added 22 points and 5 dimes. Even Joakim Noah has looked like an NBA player the last 2 nights, although taking Tyrus over LaMarcus Aldridge will be looked back upon as a dark day for the franchise. If the Bulls can win over Boston tonight, they take a 7-11 record into a stretch of games that is very soft the rest of the month, outside visits to San Antonio and Boston (yikes). Gotta get that record at least to .500 by the new year if you want to be playing at least into late April and early May.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Arenas with the wisdom

 

I know a lot of people, you know, you hear about the Bulls team and why they're losing because of their players entering free agency … You know, I want to say something to some of the young players out there in this game today. Especially somebody like Luol Deng who turned down that big contract. You don't turn down $12 million. Period. That's me, personally. I learned when I did my deal: Don't look at other people's money when you do your deal. Unfortunately, that's what this league is about. They see a player that they think they're better than, and they try to jump over them.

 

So now, Luol, you're over here in a contract year and you're not doing so well as a team. You get paid as a team. Now you're going to be a free agent, and if you keep this up, that $12 million might not be on the table. So he turned down $12 million, Okafor said he wants Dwight Howard's money … I mean, you ain't Dwight Howard. It's like them two had a discussion together about turning down the $12 million. Then Iguodala turned down $12 million … What is going on in the NBA? Iggy, you're from Arizona, baby. You don't turn down that much money. I don't know who your agent is, but Agent Zero says you don't turn down that $12 million.

 

I just don't understand it. Then Varejao, he has for $60 million and ends up with three years for $17 million. You could have got that contract last summer! You done missed 20 games of the season getting paid the same money you could have got last summer. For the deal you just signed, you could have got that this summer from the Cleveland Cavaliers without losing no basketball time. By the time you're playing again and are ready back in your form, I'm going to be playing again! It's a damn shame.

 

If I was they parents … Whooo! They would get some nice little butt whippings. Not trying to be funny here, but what's the difference between 12 and 13 or 14? I mean, I know they're all looking for max deals … but it's like Charles Barkley says, max players put people in them seats. If you're not putting people in them seats, you are not a max player.

 

If you average 15-16 points, you're not a max player. It ain't just about scoring, but I know Okafor is asking for Dwight's money, but he's doing what Dwight does. If you did what Dwight does, then that's an argument, but you don't. So don't ask for Dwight money, $12,000,000 is what you get.

 

Same thing with Luol. I love the way Luol plays, but right now if you're not better than Tayshaun and Carmelo and the best threes out there, if you aren't valuable to your team like that … I mean he's valuable to the Bulls, but not in the ways that those guys are. So, $12,000,000 is what you got.

 

Same thing with Iguodala. I know after A.I. left, you were supposed to be that No. 1 guy, but, the way he plays the game, he doesn't have that. He's not that type of player. He's a second guy. An assistant coach told me a great story about him. When he was in Arizona, he said he was like 9-for-11 from the field and he apologized to the team for 11 shots. From that day on, I just called him Scottie Pippen. He's a Scottie Pippen type of player. A great, overall player. He's your glue player. You need a superstar and then you need him. So $12 million is good for you. Nothing more and nothing less. Be happy with the $12 million.

 

With me, everybody was like "Oh, they overpaid!" And then two years later it was like, "Oh, they underpaid!" No! At the time, that's what they offered me and that's what I took. So if I become a four or five-time All-Star after that, hey, I wasn't underpaid. At the time, that's what I was worth. I might have increased my value since then, but at the time, that's what I was worth.

 

At this time, $12 million is what they're all worth. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Same thing with Ben Wallace when he got paid his $60 million through four years. At that time, at that moment, that summer, he was worth that. I'm not saying that's what he's worth now, but at the time he signed, that's what he was worth.

 

This is where when keeping it real goes wrong. Sometimes holding out is for the good, sometimes it backfires which is happening now to some players. This year has been the weirdest year I've ever seen with Matt Barnes signing a one-year deal, with Pietrus - who did well - signing a one-year deal and then I don't know if you all even know this, when Jameer Nelson went at Devin Harris and said, "I should be getting paid like Devin Harris, what does he do?" At the end of the day, Devin Harris got paid what Dallas wanted to give him. That's not Devin Harris' fault. Don't blame Devin Harris.

 

That's what players don't understand. You're sitting there worrying about what somebody else is getting and you end up not seeing what's in front of you and you're going to be mad at the end of the day.

 

What's the difference between 12 and 13 or 14? I know it's $1 million, that's a lot of money, but if you're sitting there asking for 13-14 and they offer you 12 and you say, "No" then next summer you get offered, 10 or nine, now you're going to be looking back like Joe Smith. He would never ever get that money back when he turned down that $90 million from Golden State. Y'all got to start looking at these people man. Sprewell, he turned down $21 million. I think he's still holding out!

 

People don't realize, these people do exist.

 

Samaki Walker - I played with Samaki. He told me the story. He turned down the money in Dallas because he was looking at all these other people getting paid. There's all these other people getting max deals and he's thinking, "Man, I was for Dallas so I wanted to hold out and then I end up signing a $3 million deal, got traded to the Lakers where I'm sitting behind Shaq, from there I came over here as a free agent." He never made that money back. He ended up losing $40-some million.

 

You never know what's going to happen. Nothing is guaranteed. I'm talking to three players that are trying to get $12 million and I gave you three examples of players who lost a total of almost $200 million. One lost $90 million and he ended up signing a $20-something million deal - Joe Smith. Samaki lost $40-something million and ended up signing a total of $8 million and Sprewell turned down $21 million.

 

That's what I'm saying, people be looking at other peoples' money. You're looking at other peoples' things and you're trying to do your contract off of their contract. People are put in different situations. You don't know what their situation is. When I signed my deal, I was happy to sign my deal. I wasn't looking around to see who was getting paid, I didn't care because I knew they shouldn't be caring about mine.

 

The person who taught me that lesson was Jay-Z in one of his songs, "Where is the Love?" It's something funny like, "I don't (bleep) what you eat" or "What you eat don't make me (bleep)." That's basically the same thing I think.

 

It ain't about just Iggy, Deng and Emeka, it's about everyone. It's about all young players out there who are going into negotiating and who are be going to do it in the future. If somebody offers you $12 million and you think you're worth more than that, somebody should punch you in your face if you turn down that money. What if you get hurt and you can't play basketball again? You just lost $60 million. You just threw away a great lottery ticket. That's what people don't understand.

[DBAHO]

That's great.

 

Agent Zero keepin it real. He's spot on too with his analysis of things there.

 

The Okafor / Howard comparison especially.

[SoxAce]

I love Gilbert.

[whitesoxfan101]

I love Gilbert Arenas, and he's spot on in that blog entry or whatever it is. His best point is it's not about other people, it's about you so take the money and try to live on 12 million dollars a year, it's so true.

[DBAHO]

Just on Gilbert, do you still think he gets a max deal in the off-season, coming off 2 knee surgeries?