2007-08 NBA Thread

[Chisoxfn]

Do you think that Bibby would either have made the Bulls a legit contender this year or would have been worth what we'd have had to give up to get him?

I'd f***ing throw up if they got Bibby. I don't want some past his prime bum. I want the Bulls to open up the front court. To be honest I just want the Bulls to give Noah/Thomas/Gray a boatload of minutes down low, Deng to get healthy for next year and Hinrich/Sef to get a boatload of minutes playing together. Hinrich as a pure point (no longer having to deal with having Ben Gordon on teh squad) will be a very good point guard. The team will just need to find a way to get one more good player and I think if they can package up Gordon, Wallace, Joe Smith and whomever the heck else (maybe Nocioni) in a couple deals they could eventually figure a way to make something happen (maybe not until this off-season, but move numero uno should be moving Ben Wallace).

 

I'd even be all for moving Gordon for high lotto pick (to go after one of the phenom freshman (Beasley would be my dream pick).

[Metz]

the Kings got quite a pull for Bibby ..

 

The Hawks sent starting point guard Anthony Johnson, 2007 first-round pick Shelden Williams, backup point guard Tyronn Lue, veteran forward Lorenzen Wright and a 2008 second-round pick to the Kings.

 

Lue isnt anything special .. but you have to be happy getting someone like Williams back. Put him in for Moore or be a big utility sub for Moore(32) and Miller(31), but you really cant surpass Williams being at one time a top pick. Johnson is pretty old at 33 but I think they get him so they can give more starts to Udrih which would make a lot of sense. With this they could possibly sign Artest to a long term deal(he said trade him or sign him long).

 

Right now this gives the Kings a lineup of Udrih-Martin-Artest-Williams(Moore)-Miller and for the Hawks it gives you Bibby-Johnson(all-star, but it is the Hawks)-Smith-Williams-Horford .. pretty good improvement for them. They have a young duo down low and veteran leaders at the top.

[Palehosefan]

Lue isnt anything special .. but you have to be happy getting someone like Williams back. Put him in for Moore or be a big utility sub for Moore(32) and Miller(31), but you really cant surpass Williams being at one time a top pick. Johnson is pretty old at 33 but I think they get him so they can give more starts to Udrih which would make a lot of sense. With this they could possibly sign Artest to a long term deal(he said trade him or sign him long).

 

Right now this gives the Kings a lineup of Udrih-Martin-Artest-Williams(Moore)-Miller and for the Hawks it gives you Bibby-Johnson(all-star, but it is the Hawks)-Smith-Williams-Horford .. pretty good improvement for them. They have a young duo down low and veteran leaders at the top.

 

The biggest piece in the trade was 33 year old Anthony Johnson averaging 6 points a game. Shelden Williams has been absolute garbage in the league and even worse this year than his miserable rookie season.

 

I think that was a scary bad trade for Bibby. Basically the Hawks gathered a bunch of trash and the Kings were apparently impressed by the vast amount of trash gathered.

[Metz]

The biggest piece in the trade was 33 year old Anthony Johnson averaging 6 points a game. Shelden Williams has been absolute garbage in the league and even worse this year than his miserable rookie season.

 

I think that was a scary bad trade for Bibby. Basically the Hawks gathered a bunch of trash and the Kings were apparently impressed by the vast amount of trash gathered.

 

your gonna call Williams garbage for 31 games started ever in his career(all came last season before Horford) .. and about 11 minutes a game this season? He's blocked by Horford and Marv Williams who have young legs just like him so they dont have be taken out much. He has been in the league for 2 years and your already labeling him garbage .. so i suppose next season can call Tyrus Thomas garbage apparently its only right

 

give him a break im not saying he is going to be a god in Sac but he could very well bounce back and the Kings down low needed some young legs. I doubt other teams were willing to give up much for Bibby but the point is his 13.5 mil is off the team and a bunch more cap to dedicate to a Artest signing

[jackie hayes]

The biggest piece in the trade was 33 year old Anthony Johnson averaging 6 points a game. Shelden Williams has been absolute garbage in the league and even worse this year than his miserable rookie season.

 

I think that was a scary bad trade for Bibby. Basically the Hawks gathered a bunch of trash and the Kings were apparently impressed by the vast amount of trash gathered.

They were impressed by the expiring contracts, that's about it. They aren't competing, wanted to start the turnover now, and noone was going to offer much for Bibby. Bottom line, they're better set up for the future than they were before, so this isn't a bad trade for them. Pretty much a win-win. For the teams, anyway -- if I'm Bibby, I'd much rather be going to Cleveland.

[ZoomSlowik]

your gonna call Williams garbage for 31 games started ever in his career(all came last season before Horford) .. and about 11 minutes a game this season? He's blocked by Horford and Marv Williams who have young legs just like him so they dont have be taken out much. He has been in the league for 2 years and your already labeling him garbage .. so i suppose next season can call Tyrus Thomas garbage apparently its only right

 

give him a break im not saying he is going to be a god in Sac but he could very well bounce back and the Kings down low needed some young legs. I doubt other teams were willing to give up much for Bibby but the point is his 13.5 mil is off the team and a bunch more cap to dedicate to a Artest signing

 

There's a HUGE difference between Tyrus and Williams. Tyrus is an elite athlete that's still only 21, played one year in college, and was seen as a developmental prospect coming out, especially given his serious lack of bulk. He was also widely considered the player in the draft with the highest ceiling. Williams had four years at Duke, making him 3 years older. He was supposed to be able to contribute right away because of his much more developed body and experience. He was also considered a major reach at that draft spot (he was generally projected to go outside the top-10) because of his limited athleticism and length, which is a major reason he hasn't been able to contribute as expected (Not really sure how you can claim he was "blocked" by anyone, Horford is a rookie and Williams was pretty marginal. If he had shown anything he'd have played more given their total lack of inside players, and then they could have used the pick on Conley, who they badly needed). Even if he does rebound a bit he's going to be a pretty average player, while you don't know exactly how much of his considerable potential that Tyrus will fufill.

 

He's really only an afterthought to the trade, the cap space is the only major benefit.

[Metz]

There's a HUGE difference between Tyrus and Williams. Tyrus is an elite athlete that's still only 21, played one year in college, and was seen as a developmental prospect coming out, especially given his serious lack of bulk. He was also widely considered the player in the draft with the highest ceiling. Williams had four years at Duke, making him 3 years older. He was supposed to be able to contribute right away because of his much more developed body and experience. He was also considered a major reach at that draft spot (he was generally projected to go outside the top-10) because of his limited athleticism and length, which is a major reason he hasn't been able to contribute as expected (Not really sure how you can claim he was "blocked" by anyone, Horford is a rookie and Williams was pretty marginal. If he had shown anything he'd have played more given their total lack of inside players, and then they could have used the pick on Conley, who they badly needed). Even if he does rebound a bit he's going to be a pretty average player, while you don't know exactly how much of his considerable potential that Tyrus will fufill.

 

He's really only an afterthought to the trade, the cap space is the only major benefit.

 

 

thats why i didnt call him that .. Palehose wanted to say he was garbage after two years in the nba .. i was just said with his logic he could say the same about Tyrus as all he said was Williams sucked in 31 games started and then the 11 minutes he gets average each game .. as much as its a cap ditch(which i said already that could help Artest staying) Johnson will probably split most of the time with Ulrich

[SoxFan1]

Dwight Howards is amazing.

[Metz]

Dwight Howards is amazing.

 

the program that came on afterwards is also amazing

 

but yeah Howard was amazing .. and Kapono again proved to be the stud he is

[ZoomSlowik]

thats why i didnt call him that .. Palehose wanted to say he was garbage after two years in the nba .. i was just said with his logic he could say the same about Tyrus as all he said was Williams sucked in 31 games started and then the 11 minutes he gets average each game .. as much as its a cap ditch(which i said already that could help Artest staying) Johnson will probably split most of the time with Ulrich

 

Well, Shelden does kinda suck, he can't finish inside despite a lot of bulk and power, and he's nowhere near as good a defender as he was at the college level. He doesn't exactly have a whole lot of upside either.

 

Of course you also have to consider that he's a Carolina fan.

Edited February 17, 2008 by ZoomSlowik

[nitetrain8601]

Well he doesn't have a long wingspan, and his game is that of a center's. I always thought he would be a bust, but alot of people thought he would be serviceable. He's borderline Rafael Araujo territory for me.

[nitetrain8601]

I'd f***ing throw up if they got Bibby. I don't want some past his prime bum. I want the Bulls to open up the front court. To be honest I just want the Bulls to give Noah/Thomas/Gray a boatload of minutes down low, Deng to get healthy for next year and Hinrich/Sef to get a boatload of minutes playing together. Hinrich as a pure point (no longer having to deal with having Ben Gordon on teh squad) will be a very good point guard. The team will just need to find a way to get one more good player and I think if they can package up Gordon, Wallace, Joe Smith and whomever the heck else (maybe Nocioni) in a couple deals they could eventually figure a way to make something happen (maybe not until this off-season, but move numero uno should be moving Ben Wallace).

 

I'd even be all for moving Gordon for high lotto pick (to go after one of the phenom freshman (Beasley would be my dream pick).

 

There's nothing that suggests Kirk can be a good pure point guard. He doesn't have the court vision nor does he have elite passing skills to succeed as one. He still hasn't learned how to make a post entry pass, and he holds onto the ball way too long. He usually drives, goes in circles and backs out and shoots, or he'll drive, and kick out to a guy who is completely covered. His defense has gotten worse too. He used to be an elite defender, but it doesn't seem he tries as much and ever since he got married, he's just gone downhill. Kirk has always been a combo guard, and some suggest he was more of shooting guard if anything. He just doesn't have the shooting percentages that you would need out of a SG to be effective.

 

Gordon would not net you a high lotto pick in this draft. It's way too strong. Beasley is probably going first overall, Rose is only suitable if you have a bunch of finishers on your team (need alot more Tyrus Thomas' and Ben Gordon's and you would have to run alot more to unleash his full potential since he's at his best on the open court). Nocioni seems like he would have to go because his contract, he hasn't met a shot he doesn't like, and his man defense is not that great. He's an excellent 6th man, but he should not be the best player on your team.

 

If it was up to me, we wouldn't make the playoffs and hopefully we are able to get OJ Mayo. My starters would be:

 

G - Ben Gordon

G - OJ Mayo

F - Luol Deng

F - Tyrus Thomas

C - Joakim Noah(as much as I hate him)

 

I really think Mayo will be a great NBA player. On his current college team, he doesn't seem like it because of the lack of spacing in college, and because USC has a bunch of players who want to do things themselves. No type of team aspect. I really believe OJ is going to be a stud. Tyrus needs to play PF. I'm sick of Boylan saying he needs to play inside, then stick him out there at SF as if he has that type of range yet. He would benefit a ton from penetration by Ben Gordon and OJ Mayo. Joakim and Tyrus are pretty nice defensively too. I also believe the Bulls should play uptempo with this type of lineup. They should be getting a lot of rebounds and they have athletic players who are young and fast. No reason they shouldn't be getting out on the break. I want Larry Brown coaching the team next year, though he's kind of delusional. I like the fact that he likes Ben and Tyrus.

[whitesoxfan101]

That dunk contest performance by Dwight Howard was obscene. I never thought Vince Carter in 2000 could be touched, but all 4 of Howard's dunks were legit 10's, so it's awfully close.

[SoxFan1]

G - Ben Gordon

G - OJ Mayo

Good luck dividing shots between those 2.

 

That dunk contest performance by Dwight Howard was obscene. I never thought Vince Carter in 2000 could be touched, but all 4 of Howard's dunks were legit 10's, so it's awfully close.

I think based purely off entertainment value, I'd give it to Howard. The Superman dunk was just insane. The mini-hoop, the behind the backboard, everything was incredible. His athleticism for a man his size in incredible and I don't think anyone will ever touch his 2008 dunk contest performance. Technicality probably goes to Carter in 2000, but overall, I have to give it to D12.

[nitetrain8601]

Good luck dividing shots between those 2.

I think based purely off entertainment value, I'd give it to Howard. The Superman dunk was just insane. The mini-hoop, the behind the backboard, everything was incredible. His athleticism for a man his size in incredible and I don't think anyone will ever touch his 2008 dunk contest performance. Technicality probably goes to Carter in 2000, but overall, I have to give it to D12.

 

48 Minutes a game. Luol doesn't demand the ball. Tyrus and Joakim don't need that many shots at all. It's only two players. They would definitely be able to share the ball, especially when one goes to the bench. In half court sets, I'd personally like to see Ben being ran through screens ala Richard Hamilton, and a ton of oops thrown to Tyrus and Joakim.

[whitesoxfan101]

Even if you could find enough shots for Mayo and Gordon, you wouldn't be able to find enough shots for the backcourts they'd be "defending". You can't try and play defense with Mayo and Gordon as your guards. Plus, I've seen no evidence that either of the 2 can play point.

Edited February 17, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[SoxFan1]

48 Minutes a game. Luol doesn't demand the ball. Tyrus and Joakim don't need that many shots at all. It's only two players. They would definitely be able to share the ball, especially when one goes to the bench. In half court sets, I'd personally like to see Ben being ran through screens ala Richard Hamilton, and a ton of oops thrown to Tyrus and Joakim.

In order for that to work, you need someone who is going to distribute the ball. Neither Mayo or Gordon will do that.

[nitetrain8601]

Even if you could find enough shots for Mayo and Gordon, you wouldn't be able to find enough shots for the backcourts they'd be "defending". You can't try and play defense with Mayo and Gordon as your guards. Plus, I've seen no evidence that either of the 2 can play point.

 

Gordon is a good defender against PG's. OJ needs to be pushed to play defense, but he was more than suitable guarding guards, and sometimes forwards in high school. OJ's main problem is, he doesn't care for college. He's been waiting to get to the NBA since he was in high school.

 

OJ is an very good playmaker. His PG skills are underrated.

 

What NBADraft.net has to say:

 

Strengths: Extremely talented lead guard who routinely makes highlight plays ... Possesses great all around skills ... A fierce competitor. Plays the game with a tremendous amount of confidence, desire and intensity ... The game comes very easily to him. His feel for the game is advanced for a high school level player ... Strong one on one player with creative drives to the basket ... Has legitimate lead guard skills, with a yo yo handle, and solid passing ability ... Has the go-to scoring ability to take over late in games ... Plays a very physical style and loves to take the ball to the hole ... Very strong physically, able to overpower most point guards ... Prone to big scoring outbursts ... A strong defender who can become a lock down type of defender with his great reflexes and foot speed ... Shoots well from outside, setting up his dribble drive ... His first step off the dribble is off the charts ...

 

Weaknesses: The biggest progression he can make to his game is becoming a complete point guard ... Sometimes attacks the game 1-on-5 and forgets about the team game. Must get better at keeping everyone involved and running a team ... He's 6-4 which is excellent size for a PG, but he lacks the ceiling of someone such as LeBron because he isn't able to impose his will physically on bigger players ... Can be too enamored with shooting the three ball and going to the basket, his mid range game is solid but can improve ... Some feel that his development has slowed to an extent towards the end of his high school career ... Had an off court incident, fighting with another student, which raised some red flags, but behavior doesn't seem to be a major issue ... There's the fear that the AAU mentality might overwhelm the concept of team basketball for him ... He benefits being a year older than most of the players in his class ...

 

The skills are definitely there. Ben can handle the rock on a part time basis too. He did so in college and the way the ball bounces in college isn't any different than it bounces in the NBA.

[SoxFan1]

Gordon is a good defender against PG's. OJ needs to be pushed to play defense, but he was more than suitable guarding guards, and sometimes forwards in high school. OJ's main problem is, he doesn't care for college. He's been waiting to get to the NBA since he was in high school.

 

OJ is an very good playmaker. His PG skills are underrated.

 

What NBADraft.net has to say:

The skills are definitely there. Ben can handle the rock on a part time basis too. He did so in college and the way the ball bounces in college isn't any different than it bounces in the NBA.

Gordon is not a good defender against anyone, at all. He can't get around a screen for the life of him. When he and Kirk play together in the backcourt, he's guarding the other teams PG most of the time anyway, and he's a turn stile.

 

I don't buy your Mayo argument either. Guarding high school basketball players is no big feat. Also, if you have a hard time finding motivation, what is he going to play like when he finally gets the money?

 

And as far as the ball bouncing for Gordon the same in the NBA and college, you are right. It bounces of his knee or foot just the same.

[nitetrain8601]

Gordon is not a good defender against anyone, at all. He can't get around a screen for the life of him. When he and Kirk play together in the backcourt, he's guarding the other teams PG most of the time anyway, and he's a turn stile.

 

I don't buy your Mayo argument either. Guarding high school basketball players is no big feat. Also, if you have a hard time finding motivation, what is he going to play like when he finally gets the money?

 

And as far as the ball bouncing for Gordon the same in the NBA and college, you are right. It bounces of his knee or foot just the same.

 

That's pretty untrue. Even Skiles said while with the team last year, he's improved greatly defensively and isn't a liability out there which is why he played him more and more minutes. I'm not saying Gordon is a great defensive player, but he is not sucky or even mediocre.

 

As for Mayo, it really wasn't about money as much as it is that he thinks he is too good for high school or college. I agree. He's kind of how Kobe was in high school. He would dick around and screw up on purpose just to see if he could bring his team back from deficits in the last minute.

Edited February 17, 2008 by nitetrain8601

[whitesoxfan101]

Just because O.J. is a very good playmaker doesn't mean he can play point at the NBA level, because he can't. O.J. is Gilbert Arenas with 2 inches of extra height, he's a pure chucker who makes plays at times passing the ball, almost by accident. But really, you lost me in this argument by using "Ben Gordon" and "good defender" in the same post, let alone the same setence, let alone to describe Gordon against PG's.

Edited February 17, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Palehosefan]

Of course you also have to consider that he's a Carolina fan.

 

 

Shh don't tell.

 

Atleast Shelden isn't eating himself into oblivion like Sean May. Don't even get me started on him.

[DBAHO]

Dang, missed the dunk contest. Gonna hav to youtube it.

 

But I'm glad Dwight won, after the screwjob he got last year.

[daa84]

Good luck dividing shots between those 2.

I think based purely off entertainment value, I'd give it to Howard. The Superman dunk was just insane. The mini-hoop, the behind the backboard, everything was incredible. His athleticism for a man his size in incredible and I don't think anyone will ever touch his 2008 dunk contest performance. Technicality probably goes to Carter in 2000, but overall, I have to give it to D12.

howards first dunk was absolutely ridiculous...he had to dunk it on the way down, while not hitting his head/shoulders on the backboard....as far as the superman thing goes...yeah cool idea, but seriuosly...that will be the most overrated drunk ever...he didnt even come close to making it...he was 2 feet short and threw the ball in the rim...i mena dont get me wrong the guy has serious ups and it was entertaining, but to get at 10 or even an 8 or 9 to me you actually have to DUNK it....the others were good, but i actually thought gerald green doing the between the legs without shoes on was nuts...dwights last dunk was average i thought...how was that any different than greens second? he had the ball propped instead of taking it from teh hands of rashad mccants...i dunno howard was still the clear winner, but it wasn't the ridiculous performance everyone said it was...though i will grant the fact that his first dunk may have been the best dunk ive seen...he just peaked in the beinning

[Milkman delivers]

Dang, missed the dunk contest. Gonna hav to youtube it.

 

But I'm glad Dwight won, after the screwjob he got last year.

 

Eh, I'm beginning to think the fix is in for every dunk contest. There was last year. The year before that was the garbage when Iguodala got screwed. And this year, they were clearly hyping Howard for the win throughout the entire contest. Granted, I believe he deserved to win this year, but it wasn't as open-and-shut as they made it out to be. Plus, the Superman dunk wasn't even a dunk. He actually only jumped about 3 feet (although he did jump very high) and threw the ball in. I'm glad the homerun derby doesn't count long foul balls and high warning track shots as homers.