Crede cleared for baseball activity

[bigruss]

There aren't many 3B folks out there better than Joe. He is in the upper tier. Interesting stat about the WS Rockies team. 16 of their players are home grown. We have a tendency to trade or let walk our organizations stars when they get to the point they can make some money. You don't build a stable winning team doing that and why would we just continue to trade or let walk away our best talent!? We get youth from another organization and continue to work through the learning curve. It seems KW may be changing that approach as we have seen lately, but Joe Crede needs to stay also.

How many of thsoe homegrown players have reached free agency, or even arbitration. The Rockies are an awful example because they have such a young team. Their big $ guys are Helton, and what else? Matsui? There homegrown guys are really good, but they wont be able to keep all of them once they hit arb/FA and thats why they have guys like Ian Stewart waiting in the minors to fill in those voids. Thats what the Sox should replicate, the strong farm system to replace the expensive players.

[BearSox]

oh give me a gosh darn break. How many players on the Red Sox are home grown? 4, 5?

[Vance Law]

gosh, Crede is so freaking overrated by Sox fans. I mean hes a good player and all when and IF he is healthy, but he ain't anything special.

 

On defense, he is special, saving the Sox a lot of runs over the course of the year. With the bat, he's above average. Those 2 things together make for quite a good valuable player.....when he's healthy.

[bigruss]

On defense, he is special, saving the Sox a lot of runs over the course of the year. With the bat, he's above average. Those 2 things together make for quite a good valuable player.....when he's healthy.

Exactly, he aint much use when he aint playin

[southsider2k5]

So who exactly cleared Crede? Is it the Sox doctors, or the same guy who said Maggs was working out when he was having surgery in Eastern Europe without telling the Sox?

[BearSox]

On defense, he is special, saving the Sox a lot of runs over the course of the year. With the bat, he's above average. Those 2 things together make for quite a good valuable player.....when he's healthy.

Oh puh-lease... He isn't a special defender. A special defender means he's the best defender to ever play the position in several years and is without the question the best at his position now. He is neither of those. He is a good, well above average, gold glove caliber defender, but he ain't special.

 

And his bat is FAR from above average. Hell, I probably wouldn't even call his bat average. He has had one career year with the bat, and nothing has shown me to believe that that year was anything other then a career year.

[NorthSideSox72]

He is a good, well above average, gold glove caliber defender, but he ain't special.

This sentence makes me dizzy.

 

[Kalapse]

On defense, he is special, saving the Sox a lot of runs over the course of the year. With the bat, he's above average. Those 2 things together make for quite a good valuable player.....when he's healthy.

No he isn't. Being above average for 1 season out of 5 does not earn you the title of "above average."

[CWSGuy406]

With the bat, he's above average.

 

His career OPS+ of 92 says otherwise. He's also a liability on the basepaths.

 

I'd say the total package of a healthy Joe Crede is an average player. That has it's uses, no doubt, but considering everything -- his complete package as a player, his creaky back and the fact that he turns 30 next April -- he's not someone I'd look at extending, unless it's two or three years at no more than $7-8 million.

Edited October 28, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[Kalapse]

There aren't many 3B folks out there better than Joe. He is in the upper tier. Interesting stat about the WS Rockies team. 16 of their players are home grown. We have a tendency to trade or let walk our organizations stars when they get to the point they can make some money. You don't build a stable winning team doing that and why would we just continue to trade or let walk away our best talent!? We get youth from another organization and continue to work through the learning curve. It seems KW may be changing that approach as we have seen lately, but Joe Crede needs to stay also.

Where would you rank Crede when compared to the 3B of the NL East? (Miguel Cabrera, David Wright, Chipper Jones, Ryan Zimmerman)

[Kalapse]

His career OPS+ of 92 says otherwise. He's also a liability on the basepaths.

Since becoming a full time starter in '03 he's had 1 season over 100, 1 season in the mid 90's, 1 in the low 90's, 1 in the low 80's and a low 40's OPS+ last year.

 

Nothing about those numbers screams ABOVE AVERAGE! to me.

[Vance Law]

Oh puh-lease... He isn't a special defender. A special defender means he's the best defender to ever play the position in several years and is without the question the best at his position now. He is neither of those. He is a good, well above average, gold glove caliber defender, but he ain't special.

 

And his bat is FAR from above average. Hell, I probably wouldn't even call his bat average. He has had one career year with the bat, and nothing has shown me to believe that that year was anything other then a career year.

 

 

This is a goofy post, BearSox. You are going to argue what the universal definition of "special" is with regard to baseball players' defense, as determined by you? Going so far as to launch a "puh-lease"? Pretty wuss. If you bizarrely have a hard time handing out the adjective "special", fine. I could just as easily, and for no sensible reason, pick an argument with your "gold glove caliber", as the Gold Glove often is awarded to not-even-good defenders, and therefore does not necessarily carry a connotation of quality. But that would be pointless. We agree that Crede is one of the top few defensive 3rd basemen. As far as offensively, that's your guesstimate against mine. For the second half of 2005, the '05 playoffs, and 2006 Crede was above average with the bat. FAR from not above average! You could look at his career numbers and say that they are average or slightly below. Or alternately you could note that the overwhelming majority of players (see for example most of baseball players ever) are not so good when they first come into the league, and then get better. You could note that this was the case for Crede for the most recent year and a half stretch when he was healthy. You have your guesstimate about his future, and I have mine.

[NorthSideSox72]

There is obviously some difference between folks here in the value of defense. Crede is a well above average defender, top 10 in baseball, and maybe top 5 if he can be at 2005 health after this surgery.

 

But with the bat, 2006 looks like the aberration - which means he is not even an average hitter. The only question there is, was 2006 an aberration? Or had he "figured it out"?

 

That question, along with the back issue, are huge if's. IF he is 100% healthy and IF 2006 was an indication he had really figured it out, then he is an above league average 3B. But if he is only 80 or 90% his defense and hitting will suffer, and if 2006 was an aberration, then suddenly Joe is not even an average league 3B overall.

 

If he could be signed to an extension or new semi-long term contract for 6 or 8 million a year, I think he is worth the risk. Above that, I think he can take a walk after 2008. And this is coming from one of Joe's biggest fans.

 

[Kalapse]

Anytime you have an playoff run like he did in '05 and then follow it up with a 30,30,100,.300 type season while having two herniated discs in your back...

 

people will tend to be optimistic about a player like that.

31 2B, 30 HR, 94 RBI and a .283 AVG is not a 30/30/100/.300 type season. It's a 30/30/95/.285/ (rounding up because I'm a nice guy) type season. I know it seems like nitpicking but rounding up 17 points and 6 RBI is rather disingenuous.

[witesoxfan]

For the 1st half of the '06 season, Crede was our best player. Subjective? Yes. But, I'm not alone on that. Hawk said that every other day on Comcast. On scale of 1-10 in rating Crede's defense...Crede is a 10 at the hot corner IMO.

 

If Hawk could have children with Joe Crede, he probably would. That's why he said what he did every other day on Comcast.

 

Joe Crede was not the best player, he wasn't the 2nd or 3rd best either. He was probably about 7 or 8 on that list.

[sircaffey]

Career high .829 OPS. At the hot corner that's extremely average, probably even below average. Joe's had 500 AB (150 G) is only 2 of the last 5 seasons. Now major back surgery, and we're talking long term deal for him? We have a future all-star 3B in Josh Fields at a bare minimum of cost for the next several years. He's 100% healthy, and only going to improve. We don't need to spend $8 mil a year for an injury riddled 3B, who's only going to get worse just because his name is Joe Crede. Also, don't assume Joe's going have the same range and mobility he had before the surgery.

[Balta1701]

31 2B, 30 HR, 94 RBI and a .283 AVG is not a 30/30/100/.300 type season. It's a 30/30/95/.285/ (rounding up because I'm a nice guy) type season. I know it seems like nitpicking but rounding up 17 points and 6 RBI is rather disingenuous.

Oh come on, dude, you're ignoring perhaps the most important part of those stats: Joe was on pace for a 30/30/100/.300 season easily until his back went out at the start of September. If the question is..."How good could Crede's numbers have been had it not been for his back" that's certainly worth noting. (last column = home runs that month)

 

April .313 .360 .550 .910 4

May .294 .324 .451 .775 4

June .284 .312 .545 .857 6

July .281 .316 .596 .912 8

August .327 .351 .579 .930 6

Sept .179 .264 .282 .546 2

 

He went from looking like an all star to looking like Erstad there for a month because his back went out. If he really had "Figured it out", then clearly September is the abberation.

[rockren]

31 2B, 30 HR, 94 RBI and a .283 AVG is not a 30/30/100/.300 type season. It's a 30/30/95/.285/ (rounding up because I'm a nice guy) type season. I know it seems like nitpicking but rounding up 17 points and 6 RBI is rather disingenuous.

 

You've gotta be kidding me. Considering he was hitting around .300 all year until the last half month until he could barely stand with those herniated discs in his back.

 

Describing that post as nitpicking is an understatement.

[rockren]

Oh come on, dude, you're ignoring perhaps the most important part of those stats: Joe was on pace for a 30/30/100/.300 season easily until his back went out at the start of September. If the question is..."How good could Crede's numbers have been had it not been for his back" that's certainly worth noting. (last column = home runs that month)

 

Thank you. Nice to hear from someone that actually watched every game in '06.

 

Crede was our best all around player most of that year.

 

[rockren]

Career high .829 OPS. At the hot corner that's extremely average, probably even below average. Joe's had 500 AB (150 G) is only 2 of the last 5 seasons. Now major back surgery, and we're talking long term deal for him?

 

I don't think anyone here is talking long term. I think the pro Crede people are just wanting him to be given a chance this season and to dismiss all of the stupid trade talk.

 

[rockren]

If Hawk could have children with Joe Crede, he probably would. That's why he said what he did every other day on Comcast.

 

Or Hawk just said that because he really thought Crede was our best player at that time.

 

We're not just talking offense here. Does anyone recall how bad our starting pitching was the first half of '06? Crede would pick some hot shot down the line and turn it into an out. Without Joe, we would've been a .500 team that year.

[BearSox]

If the Red Sox sign ARod that means to me that Lowell is almost surely a Yankee then, IMO. If so, then the Red Sox would probably put ARod back at SS meaning they have a hole at 3B. Possible trade partner if we choose to...

[rockren]

If the Red Sox sign ARod that means to me that Lowell is almost surely a Yankee then, IMO. If so, then the Red Sox would probably put ARod back at SS meaning they have a hole at 3B. Possible trade partner if we choose to...

 

I like you're thinking. We should take another step ahead and predict that this now opens the door for the Rangers to sign Tori Hunter. Considering this saved the Rangers 21 million...they'll throw a fair chunk of that money at Hunter.

 

That sounds good to me since I don't want to see us owe Tori Hunter 15 million when he's 38 years old.

[witesoxfan]

Or Hawk just said that because he really thought Crede was our best player at that time.

 

We're not just talking offense here. Does anyone recall how bad our starting pitching was the first half of '06? Crede would pick some hot shot down the line and turn it into an out. Without Joe, we would've been a .500 team that year.

 

K, then without Thome or Dye, how bad are the Sox? 75 win team?

 

Joe Crede did not take the Sox from 81 wins to 90 wins, unless the Sox other choice was Andy Gonzalez.

[rockren]

K, then without Thome or Dye, how bad are the Sox? 75 win team?

 

Joe Crede did not take the Sox from 81 wins to 90 wins, unless the Sox other choice was Andy Gonzalez.

 

LOL at Andy Gonzalez.

 

Crede took too many big hits away and saved too many runs that year. One of Crede's best attributes is how clutch he is and in '06 he was at his best.