BearSox Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...RTS01/710290436 This comes as no surprise to anyone here. But my question is, do the Dodgers now enter the ARod race? Is Ned Colletti gonna give out an 8 year 30 million dollar per year contract to ARod. I kinda hope so, because that make Furcal a whole lot more available and probably easier to get as long as we take on the whole contract, and I think ARod would be a very good fit in LAD (however, he'd be a good fit for most teams). Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Wow that's a fantastic move by the Dodgers if they're able to do this. And I agree, the Dodgers are absolutely a suitor for A-Rod right now. And it could make some of their youngsters more available. I'd imagine one of Hu or Furcak will certainly be dealt this off-season. Gotta feel a bit for Grady Little though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Wow...great move by the Dodgers. What would it take..if they get A Rod...to get a Furcal or Hu do you think? Garland and a minor leaguer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Oct 29, 2007 -> 11:13 PM) I kinda hope so, because that make Furcal a whole lot more available and probably easier to get as long as we take on the whole contract I am utterly shocked you of all people did not mention Hu considering your man crush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(BFirebird @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) Wow...great move by the Dodgers. What would it take..if they get A Rod...to get a Furcal or Hu do you think? Garland and a minor leaguer? I'm not giving up Garland just for Hu, the Dodgers would have to throw something else in for mine, otherwise Garland can head to the likes of Seattle for a better package. Furcal maybe a different story though, although he is coming off a down season, but both guys will be in contract years in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 05:04 AM) Furcal maybe a different story though, although he is coming off a down season, but both guys will be in contract years in 2008. You wouldn't trade Garland straight up for Hu but would (maybe) do it for Furcal? I'm just the opposite -- the Dodgers have very little leverage with Furcal right now, and getting Hu for Garland would be a great trade for Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 That was quick. I expect the Dodgers to now be HUGE players in the A-Rod sweepstakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I could see Rivera following Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokona Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 How beautiful would it be if Torre and ARod went and won a WS in LA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 The reason why I did not bring up Hu was because I think Furcal would be more easily acquired since the Dodgers would be looking to unload his salary to pay for ARod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I really don't know why everyone wants Furcal. He's coming off a fairly poor season, makes $13 million a year, pretty overpriced in myopinion and is a free agent at the end of the season. So even if he played well, he'd be looking for a raise. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 05:10 PM) I really don't know why everyone wants Furcal. He's coming off a fairly poor season, makes $13 million a year, pretty overpriced in myopinion and is a free agent at the end of the season. So even if he played well, he'd be looking for a raise. I I think the only reason people want Furcal is if it comes by unloading deadweight.... The Sox could pay him $13M and still shed $ if they are able to swing a deal with Contreras($10M) and dump Uribe ($5M). That (theoretically) makes the Sox a better team while spending less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 05:33 PM) I think the only reason people want Furcal is if it comes by unloading deadweight.... The Sox could pay him $13M and still shed $ if they are able to swing a deal with Contreras($10M) and dump Uribe ($5M). That (theoretically) makes the Sox a better team while spending less money. That leaves Gavin Floyd, John Danks, and Gio Gonzalez battling for 40% of the starting rotation. That isn't going to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) That leaves Gavin Floyd, John Danks, and Gio Gonzalez battling for 40% of the starting rotation. That isn't going to win. Like Jose Contreras is so much better then what John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Lance Broadway, Gio Gonzalez, and Jack Egbert? PUH-LEASE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(BearSox @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 06:04 PM) Like Jose Contreras is so much better then what John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Lance Broadway, Gio Gonzalez, and Jack Egbert? PUH-LEASE! In my mind, there is a far better chance of Jose Contreras having a good year next year than any of the above. Sorry. Its one thing to have an decent couple starts in September with nothing on the line. But to start the season in the rotation on a team expecting to win is a whole different story. Contreras has done that. I really don't think you could realistically expect an ERA lower than 5.00 from the 5 guys you mentioned. If Contreras pitches like he did in 2007, the Sox are screwed, I will grant you that, but I am one that is against writing him off, or giving him up for someone who will not lower the payroll so you can add other pieces. If the Sox trade Contreras, they must get salary relief. Not get back a huge question mark like Furcal who makes even more and has 1 season on his contract. Regardless of what KW says, this team needs more than a tweak. More than our bad contract for your bad contract. They aren't the defending champions. They somehow need get at least 25 games better next season. More than a couple changes are needed. Edited October 31, 2007 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) That leaves Gavin Floyd, John Danks, and Gio Gonzalez battling for 40% of the starting rotation. That isn't going to win. Neither is sticking with Contreras and Uribe... QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 06:23 PM) If the Sox trade Contreras, they must get salary relief. Not get back a huge question mark like Furcal who makes even more and has 1 season on his contract. I don't understand how Furcal is a bigger question mark than Contreras... And when combined with removing Uribe, he provides about $2M in salary relief in '08. Since we've both concluded that the Sox aren't going to win in '08 (actually, I think they can be a .500 or above team. Just not one which can compete for the division crown). Furcal's more quickly expiring contract, $7M less salary overall, and the ability to possibly bring in extra '09 draft picks with a rebound season, should make him more desirable to a team looking to turn around quickly. If you want to languish as a 4th place team, you keep Contreras around along with all the other slow, (soon-to-be) breaking down over-30 crowd. If you want to get back to being a top team in the Central, you make the necessary moves to get more athletic at the major and minor league level as quickly as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Sounds like the storyline on "Friday Night Lights" right now, except Little didn't get fired and won't challenge the dismissal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 07:29 PM) Neither is sticking with Contreras and Uribe... I don't understand how Furcal is a bigger question mark than Contreras... And when combined with removing Uribe, he provides about $2M in salary relief in '08. Since we've both concluded that the Sox aren't going to win in '08 (actually, I think they can be a .500 or above team. Just not one which can compete for the division crown). Furcal's more quickly expiring contract, $7M less salary overall, and the ability to possibly bring in extra '09 draft picks with a rebound season, should make him more desirable to a team looking to turn around quickly. If you want to languish as a 4th place team, you keep Contreras around along with all the other slow, (soon-to-be) breaking down over-30 crowd. If you want to get back to being a top team in the Central, you make the necessary moves to get more athletic at the major and minor league level as quickly as possible. They are trying to win. Draft picks are fine, but those guys, if they pan out are usually at least 4 or 5 years down the line. The White Sox would then again be looking for a SS, so the $7 million you supposedly saved over the second year will be eaten up. Bill James is coming out with the top 25 players 29 and under. Not surprisingly, no White Sox will be mentioned. Considering I just read were Silva may get between $10 million and $12 million a year, Contreras contract with a little bounce back is probably not so bad. $13 million for Furcal is a lot. Your $2 million in relief sets up a rotation that could be the worst in baseball. The White Sox need Contreras to bounce back. Maybe not to where he was from mid 2005 to mid 2006, but a guy who can win 12-15 with an ERA around 4.25. I think that's more probable than Gavin Floyd being lights out, or John Danks pitching 200 innings, or Gio Gonzalez, my favorite prospect, having a lot of success his first season. If 2 of those 3 are in the rotation, the White Sox will be battling KC for the cellar, just like this year. Edited October 31, 2007 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) That leaves Gavin Floyd, John Danks, and Gio Gonzalez battling for 40% of the starting rotation. That isn't going to win. Well then, there is no way this team is going to win next year if you're right on that. Because we can't upgrade the lineup without moving pitching (our best asset) and moving pitching means that 2 of those guys start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 07:37 PM) They are trying to win. Draft picks are fine, but those guys, if they pan out are usually at least 4 or 5 years down the line. The White Sox would then again be looking for a SS, so the $7 million you supposedly saved over the second year will be eaten up. Bill James is coming out with the top 25 players 29 and under. Not surprisingly, no White Sox will be mentioned. Considering I just read were Silva may get between $10 million and $12 million a year, Contreras contract with a little bounce back is probably not so bad. $13 million for Furcal is a lot. Your $2 million in relief sets up a rotation that could be the worst in baseball. The White Sox need Contreras to bounce back. Maybe not to where he was from mid 2005 to mid 2006, but a guy who can win 12-15 with an ERA around 4.25. I think that's more probable than Gavin Floyd being lights out, or John Danks pitching 200 innings, or Gio Gonzalez, my favorite prospect, having a lot of success his first season. If 2 of those 3 are in the rotation, the White Sox will be battling KC for the cellar, just like this year. They're trying to win. So how is a plan of Uribe, Contreras, and pray for a rebound a better plan than getting rid of the deadweight and bringing in a better option at short? All I know is Furcal is FAR more likely to return to his former self (previous 4 years of 285/350/425) than a 36(?) year-old Contreras who's seen his strikeout rate fall in every season. A rotation that's the worst in baseball yet contains Buehrle, Vazquez, and Garland? Let's leave out the hyperbole shall we? Those three could have competed with any single rotation in the post-season. Or if we're going to play the "could be" card, let's at least acknowledge that Danks could turn around like Carmona and Floyd's final 7 starts could be the sign that he's finally figured things out. Then the Sox have what might be the best rotation in baseball... you know, if we're gonna play that game. I know we don't have any great under-30 players, shouldn't that be a reason we should want more draft picks, quickly? Shouldn't that be a reason to get rid of the rapidly aging, and probably eldest member of the roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 08:13 PM) Well then, there is no way this team is going to win next year if you're right on that. Because we can't upgrade the lineup without moving pitching (our best asset) and moving pitching means that 2 of those guys start. You are correct sir-give me a chance to improve every day with a solid position player, over an every 5th game pitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 08:31 PM) They're trying to win. So how is a plan of Uribe, Contreras, and pray for a rebound a better plan than getting rid of the deadweight and bringing in a better option at short? All I know is Furcal is FAR more likely to return to his former self (previous 4 years of 285/350/425) than a 36(?) year-old Contreras who's seen his strikeout rate fall in every season. A rotation that's the worst in baseball yet contains Buehrle, Vazquez, and Garland? Let's leave out the hyperbole shall we? Those three could have competed with any single rotation in the post-season. Or if we're going to play the "could be" card, let's at least acknowledge that Danks could turn around like Carmona and Floyd's final 7 starts could be the sign that he's finally figured things out. Then the Sox have what might be the best rotation in baseball... you know, if we're gonna play that game. I know we don't have any great under-30 players, shouldn't that be a reason we should want more draft picks, quickly? Shouldn't that be a reason to get rid of the rapidly aging, and probably eldest member of the roster? I don't know about FAR more likely with Furcal. He has an ankle problem that was just determined did not need surgery. I'm a little leery. Furcal is another guy who they really don't know how old he is, but I'm sure he's younger than Contreras. Moving to the AL, only around for a year. I like Uribe at $8 million less playing for a contract. I like Contreras over Floyd. That's just me. We'll see how it turns out. One thing is for certain, I hope the White Sox make no trades before Mitchell's report comes out, unless they are sure the guy they are getting isn't on it, or are sure the guy they are getting rid of is on it. I heard suspensions will be coming. I was thinking about this with the Renteria trade. If his name appeared, and he got suspended 50 games it would put a whole new spin on the trade. As far as your big 3 in the rotation, I think its FAR more likely Vazquez returns to his normal line than what he did in 2007. Garland tends to be up and down, and Buerhle is usually solid. Its still a rotation that's very short. Danks ran out of gas after about 90 innings, and I don't know how much you could expect out of Floyd. That would put a long of stress on what is right now a horrible bullpen looking for a miracle recovery. I've heard Linebrink's name mentioned. I wouldn't mind taking a few cuts against him. The reason the White Sox sucked last year isn't Juan Uribe. His numbers were pretty comparable to 2005 when he was the SS for a championship team. The reason they sucked was the pitching was 12th in the AL. Only Baltimore and Tampa Bay were worse. Contreras was a big part of that problem. But if September games matter like they apparently do with Gavin Floyd, in August and September Contreras was 5-3 with an ERA below 4.00. You can't be serious about Danks and Floyd. You're starting to sound like KW. He claimed Danks and Gio were the 2 best left handed pitching prospects in baseball. Edited October 31, 2007 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyw Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Back to the topic... Its official Torre will manage the Dodgers. He's bringing along Mattingly. I'm not convinced torre was the best choice for this position. What other managers were available? Phil Garner? He's quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 04:29 PM) You wouldn't trade Garland straight up for Hu but would (maybe) do it for Furcal? I'm just the opposite -- the Dodgers have very little leverage with Furcal right now, and getting Hu for Garland would be a great trade for Kenny. Well I think Furcal is primed for a real good season next year. He was pretty banged up this year, hence the .100 drop in OPS from his 1st season. But I wouldn't do it straight up for Garland, I'd ask something more in return. As for Hu, it's sort of like asking would you prefer Balentian straight up from Seattle or Hu, and is that enough for a SP who's proven in this market? Remembering what the Astros gave up for Jason Jennings last off-season, Jason Hirsh is a fairly similar rated prospect to Hu, albeit in a different position, and they got Taveras and Buckholz on top of that. So yeah, maybe my asking price is high, but I want more than Hu for Garland. We almost got Hirsh, Buckholz and Pence last off-season for Garland, but that was too much, but we should be able to find a happy medium b/w that, and say just getting Chin - Lung Hu for JG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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