Torii Hunter

[SkokieSox]

With seeing all these ridiculous contracts, can I get state that the Chris Young trade really hurt this franchise. I'll shut up now and take the criticism.

 

Criticism is that the team would then have to spend the money for starting pitcher vs. a CF.

[Balta1701]

Criticism is that the team would then have to spend the money for starting pitcher vs. a CF.

To be fair, Vazquez isn't exactly making the league minimum.

[Dick Allen]

With seeing all these ridiculous contracts, can I get state that the Chris Young trade really hurt this franchise. I'll shut up now and take the criticism.

With what they have to pay Vazquez, that trade is going to wind up costing them over $25 million next year alone. Vazquez had a nice season, but on a team that lost 90 games so it was a waste. If he returns to his previous form, the Sox will have a guy with good "stuff" whose performance is league average or below and a CF that may or may not be as good as Young, and they will make a combined $25 million +. That kind of money saved makes you a player for Johan Santana.

[santo=dorf]

Sounds like a message to KW and other GM's to pony up more $$$ rather then him actually signing in Texas.

Hunter is a money whore. Remember how much he said at the all-star game how great it would be to play in SF in the steps of Willie Mays?

[DBAHO]

Yeah there's no doubt, having Chris Young on this team would offer us a lot more payroll flexibility.

 

If we didn't make that trade, we probably would have kept Garcia, and had his shoulder blown out as it did this season, we would have had Danks and Broadway? in the back end of the rotation, and we would need a SP. But we'd probably be keeping Garland as well, and locking him up.

 

So there are a lot of possibilities. Very glad to gave Javy, and have him signed to a good contract in this marketplace, but there's no doubt Chris Young would fill a hole on this ballclub.

[SkokieSox]

To be fair, Vazquez isn't exactly making the league minimum.

 

That's the point, if you have Young you'd have to spend to replace Javy, especially considering we had less options, at the time of the trade, with pitching depth in the system than we do now. So you would either be spending on a CF, like we're doing, or spending on a starting pitcher, which in this market, could be more expensive with less bang for your buck. Very little quality pitching on the market...

[Dick Allen]

Hunter is a money whore. Remember how much he said at the all-star game how great it would be to play in SF in the steps of Willie Mays?

Just about every player is. Its amazing how many talk about everything but money, but wind up taking the highest offer. Not that I blame them, I'd probably do the same thing. Its incredible the grief ARod got when he signed with Texas. For $100 million more than anyone else was willing to pony up at the time, I'm pretty sure I would have signed that contract.

[fathom]

With what they have to pay Vazquez, that trade is going to wind up costing them over $25 million next year alone. Vazquez had a nice season, but on a team that lost 90 games so it was a waste. If he returns to his previous form, the Sox will have a guy with good "stuff" whose performance is league average or below and a CF that may or may not be as good as Young, and they will make a combined $25 million +. That kind of money saved makes you a player for Johan Santana.

 

This was exactly my point, well done.

 

BTW Santo=dorf, keep up the quality posts. I was lurking on another site, and your comments on Hunter and Crawford have been sensational.

[Chombi]

Two words, and you know what they are coming from me...

 

Javy Vazquez.

 

--------

 

Our rotation would be an absolute mess without him, and I'd rather have a mess in CF then at SP.

 

 

It's not so much a case of Javy that I thought he was getting at...Moreso the fact that we could've dealt Brian Anderson.

 

In that scenario then yes the CY did hurt us.

[BearSox]

With what they have to pay Vazquez, that trade is going to wind up costing them over $25 million next year alone. Vazquez had a nice season, but on a team that lost 90 games so it was a waste. If he returns to his previous form, the Sox will have a guy with good "stuff" whose performance is league average or below and a CF that may or may not be as good as Young, and they will make a combined $25 million +. That kind of money saved makes you a player for Johan Santana.

Or, he finally settled in and has found "it" again.

 

I am so freaking sick of the no pressure excuse for why Vazquez did good last season. Vazquez has been the Sox best pitcher since the final 2 months+ of 06 till now. And last time I checked, the White Sox were still in contention in the final two months of 06. Hell, he pitched one hell of a game @ Boston and owned them (but to bad the offense was pitiful and he got the L). Now, are you telling me there is no pressure at Fenway, let alone when the team is trying to make a push for the playoffs?

[fathom]

To be fair, it's an organizational failure with what's happened in CF, especially Brian Anderson.

[Balta1701]

To be fair, it's an organizational failure with what's happened in CF, especially Brian Anderson.

And, to a lesser extent since he's still younger, Ryan Sweeney.

 

And anyway Fathom, nice job tossing the dynamite into this thread.

[BearSox]

It's not so much a case of Javy that I thought he was getting at...Moreso the fact that we could've dealt Brian Anderson.

 

In that scenario then yes the CY did hurt us.

Would it have been nice to have kept Young and trade Anderson instead? Yeah.

 

But then again for all we know Anderson would have blossomed as an everyday player in Arizona not getting benched every other day, and Young would have struggled mightly for us (and I think Young is overrated as well).

 

Too many "ifs".

[SkokieSox]

Way to high jack the thread and make this about Chris Young. Who gives a ****? At this stage of the game, I've moved on, and I'm happy we have Vazquez. You make Vazquez available in this market, and see what you get back. I bet it's a boat load...

[fathom]

And, to a lesser extent since he's still younger, Ryan Sweeney.

 

And anyway Fathom, nice job tossing the dynamite into this thread.

 

It's just that I saw all those names in the Daily Herald article....and I'd rather have Chris Young over all those guys. Anyways, I shouldn't have brought this up, and I'd rather we just get news reports about the negotiations instead of this argument. My bad!

[southsideirish71]

Well if Kenny misses out on Torii how desperate does he get with Rowand.

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Or, he finally settled in and has found "it" again.

 

I am so freaking sick of the no pressure excuse for why Vazquez did good last season. Vazquez has been the Sox best pitcher since the final 2 months+ of 06 till now. And last time I checked, the White Sox were still in contention in the final two months of 06. Hell, he pitched one hell of a game @ Boston and owned them (but to bad the offense was pitiful and he got the L). Now, are you telling me there is no pressure at Fenway, let alone when the team is trying to make a push for the playoffs?

We will see in 2008. Javy has had good seasons before, and followed them up with not so good seasons. We will see if he's "found it" or if he goes back to the mediocre guy he was the previous 3 seasons. Where was he the first 4 months of 2006? His record was below .500 on a 90 win team, his ERA was higher than the league average. Pretty mediocre. He did well in 2007, but still has to be considered a wild card.

[Balta1701]

Well if Kenny misses out on Torii how desperate does he get with Rowand.

With this many CF's on the market, there's no reason to get desperate.

[Dick Allen]

With this many CF's on the market, there's no reason to get desperate.

I think there will be a backlash if the White Sox don't pick up a big name this offseason whether its through free agency or trade. KW can talk about 2007 being a fluke, but the White Sox were also below .500 the second half of 2006 mostly because of the same problems they had in 2007. This team needs a couple of major changes or chances are its more of the same and probably even worse in 2008.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Dick Allen

[fathom]

I think there will be a backlash if the White Sox don't pick up a big name this offseason whether its through free agency or trade. KW can talk about 2007 being a fluke, but the White Sox were also below .500 the second half of 2006 mostly because of the same problems they had in 2007. This team needs a couple of major changes or chances are its more of the same and probably even worse in 2008.

 

I agree, there will be a lot of negativity in the media if the Sox miss out on a big acquisition this offseason. Personally, I'll have no problem if they don't blow the budget this offseason.

[Chombi]

There isn't really a reason to get desperate...I will say this though.

 

We will end up overpaying for one of the other 2 if Hunter takes a while and elects to go elsewhere. Since we will probably be late to the party we will throw some crazy offer at Jones or Rowand.

 

Another problem I mentioned in a Cabrera thread I think is I am concerned with how this looks to other players and organizations.

 

For the Cabrera part, basically if anyone was unsure about our farm and didnt trust their own scouts enough, Florida's (considered very good) confirmed that our prospects were on the lesser end and lacking Blue-chips. So them passing us over in a deal and basically leaving us on the back-burner as a last resort is somewhat embarressing and not good for other potential deals IMO.

 

In the Hunter case. Hunter was expected to go to Texas. Fine. I still think that if we miss out on him and any other people we go after that can't be a good sign for how these other players see our team as far as contention goes.

 

Just throwing it out there.

[DBAHO]

We will see in 2008. Javy has had good seasons before, and followed them up with not so good seasons. We will see if he's "found it" or if he goes back to the mediocre guy he was the previous 3 seasons. Where was he the first 4 months of 2006? His record was below .500 on a 90 win team, his ERA was higher than the league average. Pretty mediocre. He did well in 2007, but still has to be considered a wild card.

I look at it as if he took time to get his head around what Coop was trying to fix with him and when he did he had success. To me his season in 2007 was no suprise considering the way he finished off 2006. It was quite funny how people thought he was our worst starter going into last season, and yet he's now argubly our best. He racked up over 200K's, lowered his HR total to about 25, and put up a sub 4 ERA, which in our ballpark is very, very good.

 

I just find it a little funny Dick that you're willing to give Contreras the benefit of the doubt in terms of keeping him for next season, and yet he's quite similar to Vazquez for the reasons you think Javy won't repeat his 2007 numbers. He struggled with his control in 2005 for the 1st 4 months, and then got on that hot streak, and then fell apart.

 

I'm not saying that's going to happen to Javy because he's in good physical shape and he's got dominating stuff, but Contreras is much older and lost velocity. Is he ever going to get back to where he was? Very doubtful at best.

[Balta1701]

I agree, there will be a lot of negativity in the media if the Sox miss out on a big acquisition this offseason. Personally, I'll have no problem if they don't blow the budget this offseason.

I have no problem missing out on 1 or 2 of these guys if we wind up with #3, 4, or 5. I'll more than happily take Jones or Fukudome. They might well be the better options.

[fathom]

I have no problem missing out on 1 or 2 of these guys if we wind up with #3, 4, or 5. I'll more than happily take Jones or Fukudome. They might well be the better options.

 

I absolutely HATE the idea of signing Jones to one year. If he does well, then he'll obviously sign a huge deal elsewhere after the season's over. I don't have much hope for Fukodome, especially because he's supposed to be a corner.

[southsideirish71]

I have no problem missing out on 1 or 2 of these guys if we wind up with #3, 4, or 5. I'll more than happily take Jones or Fukudome. They might well be the better options.

 

Jones has Boras as his agent, you might as well get that thought out of your head.

 

I would rather have Fukudome, but the competition on him might be steep.