Torii Hunter

[BobDylan]

Bob, you make me miss chat. Seems like it has been two years.

 

Good times, buddy.

[iamshack]

HA HA! Awesome!

 

I would honestly love for the Rangers to sign Hunter and for the White Sox to up their pursuit of Jones. An article on mlbtraderumors suggested that the Nationals were the only team currently pursuing Jones.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

I have a feeling that we aren't getting Hunter. KW would of sealed the deal already. Just my gut feeling, no source or anything.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Reportedly, the Rangers have offered him a 6-year deal.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...r112007.article

 

The day after feasting on a steak dinner at the 30-acre estate of Texas Rangers owner Tom Hicks and being offered a six-year deal, free agent Torii Hunter said today said he’s ``not leaning one way or another’’ toward any team. But those close to him still believe the White Sox are his first choice.

[southsideirish]

Fair enough. I'm not trying to fight with anyone...just curious as to why you would expend so much energy trying to fight back if you don't care.

 

And secondly, I'm not sure why anyone would post something on a public message board if not for the express purpose of sharing that thought. Insult me all you'd like- I really don't mind it. But honestly, from the standpoint of offering an analogy...do you go around speaking everything that is on your mind, or just those thoughts that you wish others to hear?

 

Fight back? I have been fighting back about one thing. The fact that people seem to think that I was presenting it as fact, or that I was considering myself a source, or that I was stating that I had inside information or sources. I never once said any of this and actually said that it was my belief. Never anything else. I am not fighting back about my opinion - I don't care what others think about that. I also don't care if people think I will have egg on my face after Monday. I don't care. What I do care about is someone stating that I posted it as fact, that I claimed to have sources, or that I claimed to be a source. Those are just bold faced lies.

 

That analogy is kind of wierd. Whatever I speak aloud is obviously a thought that I wish for others to hear. Do I speak everything that is on my mind? No. I did wish to speak my opinion about this, which I can choose to do since it is a message board.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

We don't want to lock this thread. The bickering is over. Everyone stop.

 

Are you stating that you know for a fact that the bickering is over or is that just your opinion?

[Brian]

If he goes to Texas, it is purely for cash. Don't want to hear about going someplace to compete. Texas is the team that shipped off Tex and may want to deal Blalock.

[iamshack]

Indeed. And no one will blame him...In fact, I hope he does...I don't want us to give him a 5th year, let alone a 6th year.

 

If we need to go that long-term with someone, I'd go with Jones. If it is going to take 6 years with anyone, I think I'd just as well go with Patterson and Crisp than lock ourselves into a bad contract.

[southsideirish]

Indeed. And no one will blame him...In fact, I hope he does...I don't want us to give him a 5th year, let alone a 6th year.

 

If we need to go that long-term with someone, I'd go with Jones. If it is going to take 6 years with anyone, I think I'd just as well go with Patterson and Crisp than lock ourselves into a bad contract.

I totally disagree. Crisp was good in Cleveland but hasn't been the same since. I don't like what he brings and I don't like his sideways wearing hat. I don't know what others see in Patterson. He does good for a bit then falls off completely. Andruw Jones long term? Why him over Hunter? I like Hunter's all around game. I also like his leadership style. I like the fact that he is vocal and doesn't take crap from anyone. Give me 5 years of Hunter over any of these other jamokes.

 

Explain why Jones would be a better long term solution than Hunter. Hunter has played in the American League. He has played in the Central. He is very familiar with the pitchers, the style of play, the ballparks. You shouldn't have a transition struggle phase. You may have this with Jones. You really don't know how good he will be in the American League. Hunter still brings speed and stolen base potential to the offense as well. He is really good in all areas of the game and plays winning baseball. I can't say that Andruw Jones always does this.

Edited November 21, 2007 by southsideirish

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Too bad Lowell resigned, a Crede for Crisp deal would of worked.

[DBAHO]

If he goes to Texas, it is purely for cash. Don't want to hear about going someplace to compete. Texas is the team that shipped off Tex and may want to deal Blalock.

Well I wouldn't totally agree with that. He may just be more comfortable there, because that's where he lives in the off-season. We don't know what his mind-set is.

 

Texas and the White Sox are probably both similar in terms of they want to get back above .500. We obviously have an older core so we should be better in the short - term, but the Rangers could be better in the long - run with the young players that they have, and that could appeal to Torii, I don't know.

[DBAHO]

I totally disagree. Crisp was good in Cleveland but hasn't been the same since. I don't like what he brings and I don't like his sideways wearing hat. I don't know what others see in Patterson. He does good for a bit then falls off completely. Andruw Jones long term? Why him over Hunter? I like Hunter's all around game. I also like his leadership style. I like the fact that he is vocal and doesn't take crap from anyone. Give me 5 years of Hunter over any of these other jamokes.

 

Explain why Jones would be a better long term solution than Hunter. Hunter has played in the American League. He has played in the Central. He is very familiar with the pitchers, the style of play, the ballparks. You shouldn't have a transition struggle phase. You may have this with Jones. You really don't know how good he will be in the American League. Hunter still brings speed and stolen base potential to the offense as well. He is really good in all areas of the game and plays winning baseball. I can't say that Andruw Jones always does this.

A couple of points;

 

1 - Crisp has been chronically injured with his shoulders and wrists in Boston. Not that I'm making excuses for him, but there are validating circumstances as to why he struggled in Boston. And you don't like him because he wears his hat sideways? If Hunter wore his hat sideways, would you be saying we shouldn't be signing him? That's a pretty silly reason to me.

 

2 - Is Hunter going to produce good numbers over the term of a 5 year contract? He'll be 37-38 when he finishes it, so I'd say the odds are probably not going to be in his favor of producing what he is producing now.

 

3 - You do make some good points on Hunter and Jones. But we wouldn't be locked into a long - term contract with Jones, and he would be moving into a more favorable league for hitters, and into a more favorable hitters park. And he has produced better offensive numbers than Hunter before.

[max power]

where did I? Please show me this. I want to see where I said "he's signed, announcement tomorrow," or anything like that. I want to see this. I want to see where I said anything more than I was speculating. I want to see where I said that this was fact and that I have sources. I want to see this. I said from the beginning to believe what you want to believe. I said from the beginning that I had no source. I said from the beginning that I believe it will be announced on Monday if not sooner.

I will tell you something - stop placing words in my mouth. If you have a problem looking at a post on a message board and determining if it is fact, fiction, or opinion, then either ask or get help. I will post how I want to post - not how it is best for you.

LOL spasms? Show me where I did this? Show me where I freaked out on the internet? Show me. You can't can you?

 

edit: no offense, just struck me as hilarious

Edited November 21, 2007 by max power

[iamshack]

I totally disagree. Crisp was good in Cleveland but hasn't been the same since. I don't like what he brings and I don't like his sideways wearing hat. I don't know what others see in Patterson. He does good for a bit then falls off completely. Andruw Jones long term? Why him over Hunter? I like Hunter's all around game. I also like his leadership style. I like the fact that he is vocal and doesn't take crap from anyone. Give me 5 years of Hunter over any of these other jamokes.

 

Explain why Jones would be a better long term solution than Hunter. Hunter has played in the American League. He has played in the Central. He is very familiar with the pitchers, the style of play, the ballparks. You shouldn't have a transition struggle phase. You may have this with Jones. You really don't know how good he will be in the American League. Hunter still brings speed and stolen base potential to the offense as well. He is really good in all areas of the game and plays winning baseball. I can't say that Andruw Jones always does this.

 

Well, for one thing, Jones is younger. I'm not so worried about the comparison in the first 2-3 years of the contract, but more so in the final few years of the contract. I just don't want to be paying Hunter $15 million a year when he is 37.

 

Secondly, Hunter has played on turf for the past 8-9 years. His defense began declining after he broke his ankle in 05'. Sure, he looks great out there, mainly because he plays 10 steps in front of the warning track so he can rob home runs. But he let's an absolute ton of singles drop in. Jones, on the other hand, is arguably the best defensive center fielder to ever play the game. Sure, he may not have as many highlight-reel plays as Hunter, but he gets to an awful lot of balls that Hunter doesn't even sniff. Despite Jones' defense supposedly in vast decline, he had a very similar season to Hunter defensively this past season.

 

Thirdly, over the course of their careers, Jones has been a better hitter than Hunter. Hunter's posted a .793 career OPS while Jones has posted a career OPS of .839. Jones is more selective than Hunter, and hits for more power than Hunter. While Jones had a very down season this past year, he's had more "great" years than Hunter at the plate.

 

This is not to say they are not similar players....there probably are not two more comparable players in the league right now than these two. However, I like Jones better because of his age, as well as his potential to have outstanding seasons at the plate relative to Hunter. We can't just remember 07' when considering a contract of this length and $ amount. We must consider their entire careers.

 

As for Crisp and Patterson, they aren't the huge names that Hunter and Jones are, but I think both could be had (combined) for less than Jones or Hunter individually. Crisp, in my opinion, will rebound offensively once he gets away from Fenway, and is a very solid defender. Patterson, while he struggles mentally it seems, is an excellent CF and could finally begin to realize some of the natural raw talent he possesses. They would form an outstanding defensive CF and LF, which would be nice considering how bad Dye is beginning to look in RF.

 

I'm not arguing that Crisp and Patterson would be the best option, or even a good option, just that in the grand scheme of things, it may be a better option than having to go 6 years with Torii Hunter at $15 per.

 

 

 

[29andPoplar]

Not sure why Andruw Jones is on White Sox fans conciousness as his agent is Boras.

[iamshack]

Not sure why Andruw Jones is on White Sox fans conciousness as his agent is Boras.

 

That hasn't stopped KW from trying to acquire him in the past via trade. Now certainly that is not the same as trying to sign a Boras client, but if the interest in the player exists, I don't think these are still the days where KW will ignore him because of the agent. Perhaps if this was the offseason after 05', but I don't believe so anymore.

 

I think if Hunter signs with Texas, Kenny will turn some interest to Jones.

[29andPoplar]

That hasn't stopped KW from trying to acquire him in the past via trade. Now certainly that is not the same as trying to sign a Boras client,

 

Key points here.

 

I hope they suddenly start signing Boras clients but I'm not seeing it.

 

[DBAHO]

Key points here.

 

I hope they suddenly start signing Boras clients but I'm not seeing it.

We can only hope Jones does what some others have been doing lately and that's to dump Bora$$.

[southsideirish]

LOL spasms? Show me where I did this? Show me where I freaked out on the internet? Show me. You can't can you?

 

edit: no offense, just struck me as hilarious

LOL!!!! And that is what makes you max power. Hilarioius!

[southsideirish]

Well, for one thing, Jones is younger. I'm not so worried about the comparison in the first 2-3 years of the contract, but more so in the final few years of the contract. I just don't want to be paying Hunter $15 million a year when he is 37.

 

Secondly, Hunter has played on turf for the past 8-9 years. His defense began declining after he broke his ankle in 05'. Sure, he looks great out there, mainly because he plays 10 steps in front of the warning track so he can rob home runs. But he let's an absolute ton of singles drop in. Jones, on the other hand, is arguably the best defensive center fielder to ever play the game. Sure, he may not have as many highlight-reel plays as Hunter, but he gets to an awful lot of balls that Hunter doesn't even sniff. Despite Jones' defense supposedly in vast decline, he had a very similar season to Hunter defensively this past season.

 

Thirdly, over the course of their careers, Jones has been a better hitter than Hunter. Hunter's posted a .793 career OPS while Jones has posted a career OPS of .839. Jones is more selective than Hunter, and hits for more power than Hunter. While Jones had a very down season this past year, he's had more "great" years than Hunter at the plate.

 

This is not to say they are not similar players....there probably are not two more comparable players in the league right now than these two. However, I like Jones better because of his age, as well as his potential to have outstanding seasons at the plate relative to Hunter. We can't just remember 07' when considering a contract of this length and $ amount. We must consider their entire careers.

 

As for Crisp and Patterson, they aren't the huge names that Hunter and Jones are, but I think both could be had (combined) for less than Jones or Hunter individually. Crisp, in my opinion, will rebound offensively once he gets away from Fenway, and is a very solid defender. Patterson, while he struggles mentally it seems, is an excellent CF and could finally begin to realize some of the natural raw talent he possesses. They would form an outstanding defensive CF and LF, which would be nice considering how bad Dye is beginning to look in RF.

 

I'm not arguing that Crisp and Patterson would be the best option, or even a good option, just that in the grand scheme of things, it may be a better option than having to go 6 years with Torii Hunter at $15 per.

Hunter is only 2 years older than Jones.

 

Defense is equal. That is a wash and shouldn't even be a point of argument.

 

Jones didn't look very good last year at the plate and has never played in the American League. There could be a period of adjustment while switching leagues. Torii Hunter wouldn't have this issue.

 

I would much rather have Hunter at 15 per than have Crisp or Patterson roaming my CF. Torii is much better at the plate than either of them.

 

I can see your points, but I think Hunter has less question marks than Jones. Boras also said that Jones won't be accepting a 1 or 2 year deal, so you will be with him for the long term. To me, Hunter is a huge upgrade over Crisp or Patterson, especially Patterson.

[Dick Allen]

Hunter is only 2 years older than Jones.

 

Defense is equal. That is a wash and shouldn't even be a point of argument.

 

Jones didn't look very good last year at the plate and has never played in the American League. There could be a period of adjustment while switching leagues. Torii Hunter wouldn't have this issue.

 

I would much rather have Hunter at 15 per than have Crisp or Patterson roaming my CF. Torii is much better at the plate than either of them.

 

I can see your points, but I think Hunter has less question marks than Jones. Boras also said that Jones won't be accepting a 1 or 2 year deal, so you will be with him for the long term. To me, Hunter is a huge upgrade over Crisp or Patterson, especially Patterson.

Jones was the CF version of Juan Uribe in 2007. Fat, didn't get on base much. Struck out often. I'm amazed anyone would want to deal with Boras and give this guy 8 figures, plus the new league is another good point.

[klaus kinski]

That hasn't stopped KW from trying to acquire him in the past via trade. Now certainly that is not the same as trying to sign a Boras client, but if the interest in the player exists, I don't think these are still the days where KW will ignore him because of the agent. Perhaps if this was the offseason after 05', but I don't believe so anymore.

 

I think if Hunter signs with Texas, Kenny will turn some interest to Jones.

 

He sort of, has to

 

[southsideirish]

A couple of points;

 

1 - Crisp has been chronically injured with his shoulders and wrists in Boston. Not that I'm making excuses for him, but there are validating circumstances as to why he struggled in Boston. And you don't like him because he wears his hat sideways? If Hunter wore his hat sideways, would you be saying we shouldn't be signing him? That's a pretty silly reason to me.

 

2 - Is Hunter going to produce good numbers over the term of a 5 year contract? He'll be 37-38 when he finishes it, so I'd say the odds are probably not going to be in his favor of producing what he is producing now.

 

3 - You do make some good points on Hunter and Jones. But we wouldn't be locked into a long - term contract with Jones, and he would be moving into a more favorable league for hitters, and into a more favorable hitters park. And he has produced better offensive numbers than Hunter before.

 

1 - If 2 players are of equal value I will take the one that wears his hat correctly and not cocked to the side like some hip hop freak. Silly - probably.

 

2 - I don't know. I don't know if he won't or if Jones will be a productive player over that time either. That is the chance you take with any free agent.

 

3 - How do you know you wouldn't be locked into long term with Jones? Boras recently said that Jones will not accept a 1 or 2 year deal. I still think there will be a period of adjustment for a player that has played his entire career in the National League.

[Mplssoxfan]

I can't find a very good picture, but Torii likes to wear his cap cocked to the side, too.

 

Edited November 21, 2007 by Mplssoxfan

[Linnwood]

I can't find a very good picture, but Torii likes to wear his cap cocked to the side, too.

 

 

Well in that case, Texas can have him.