Torii Hunter

[BearSox]

I'd rather overpay for Hunter than overpay for Aaron Rowand. Hunter has more power and at 35 would still be better in CF than the PA$ION.

 

And I have no idea why Uribe's option isn't picked up already. David Eckstein blows and while Uribe's OBP is terrible, his D and 20 HRs make up for it.

Uribe's option CAN NOT be picked up. He'd be getting paid what, 5 million(?) to suck. If we can't find a replacement within a certain amount of time, we could then give him a lesser contract, as Uribe is not even close to being worth 5 million.

 

Also, I'd much rather over pay for Rowand then Hunter as Rowand hasn't shown massive signs of slowing down and won't be 40 in the final year of his contract. With that being said, we could go without either and save the money for something else.

[Kalapse]

I'd rather not see Castillo in a Sox uni. He's become the ultimate singles hitter and doesn't have much left in his legs so he doesn't steal many bases. If next year his OBP next year is below .350 his OPS will dip below .700. He's also looking for a 3 year deal.

 

So you'd be signing a guy who's a risk to put up a sub .700 OPS and steal 15-20 bases. KW would be regretting that signing by 2009.

[Kalapse]

Uribe's option CAN NOT be picked up. He'd be getting paid what, 5 million(?) to suck. If we can't find a replacement within a certain amount of time, we could then give him a lesser contract, as Uribe is not even close to being worth 5 million.

 

Also, I'd much rather over pay for Rowand then Hunter as Rowand hasn't shown massive signs of slowing down and won't be 40 in the final year of his contract. With that being said, we could go without either and save the money for something else.

Neither will Torii Hunter. He'll be 36 or 37 (depending on the length of the deal [4-5 years]) and only 2 years older than Rowand. And as for Hunter never living up to the numbers he posted in his contract year, he had nearly identical numbers in 2006 with only a 13 point difference in OPS between the 2 seasons so there is some sort of track record of success.

 

I'm really not all that opposed to giving Hunter a lucrative long term deal as I'm beginning to think money will not be a huge issue for this team in the coming years. He's a good, exciting player who's well liked around baseball and very very marketable.

[Balta1701]

I'd rather not see Castillo in a Sox uni. He's become the ultimate singles hitter and doesn't have much left in his legs so he doesn't steal many bases. If next year his OBP next year is below .350 his OPS will dip below .700. He's also looking for a 3 year deal.

 

So you'd be signing a guy who's a risk to put up a sub .700 OPS and steal 15-20 bases. KW would be regretting that signing by 2009.

Richar seems like, at worst, he'll be able to give us those OPS numbers this season for the league minimum. And Danny will probably put up significantly better OPS numbers than that given a little more work. He put up a .695 OPS this season after coming up as a very raw talent, and he put up a .752 OPS in September (his 2nd full month).

[DBAHO]

I still think bringing in a replacement for Uribe at SS with a big upgrade e.g Furcal, should probably be this team's #1 priority.

 

I just can't find any good reasons to justify bringing him back for $5M when he's offensive numbers have decreased every season since he's been here, while his defense was also down last season as well (there's a stat from the Hardball Times which backs up this theory).

 

Of course say trading a starter for a young SS and young CF who could step in straight away would probably be an ideal situation.

[bigruss]

I still think bringing in a replacement for Uribe at SS with a big upgrade e.g Furcal, should probably be this team's #1 priority.

 

I just can't find any good reasons to justify bringing him back for $5M when he's offensive numbers have decreased every season since he's been here, while his defense was also down last season as well (there's a stat from the Hardball Times which backs up this theory).

 

Of course say trading a starter for a young SS and young CF who could step in straight away would probably be an ideal situation.

 

But then your stuck with Floyd and Danks in your rotation. Unless you sign a guy like Kris Benson, who is probably going to cost alot without giving you that much, so really the FA market isnt good for filling the rotation and our prospects arent good enough to fill the spots all season long. Even guys like Egbert are starting to break down with the # of innings going up. Maybe a guy like Phillips will step up and become an okay 5th starter later in the season but the sox just wont win this division or wildcard with floyd and danks(this season).

[sircaffey]

If Kenny Williams is actually considering giving hunter 5 years at 90 million, I quit being a sox fan until he gets freaking fired and Hahn takes over as GM.

 

Probably the real reason Hahn didn't get the Cards job. He sees that KW is f***ing up. He used the Cards as leverage. Probably got a bit of a raise this season, and figures he'll take over next season. I wish this was true...

[sircaffey]

I'd rather not see Castillo in a Sox uni. He's become the ultimate singles hitter and doesn't have much left in his legs so he doesn't steal many bases. If next year his OBP next year is below .350 his OPS will dip below .700. He's also looking for a 3 year deal.

 

So you'd be signing a guy who's a risk to put up a sub .700 OPS and steal 15-20 bases. KW would be regretting that signing by 2009.

 

That's what Crisp is, and yet some people want it. I agree with you though.

[sircaffey]

But then your stuck with Floyd and Danks in your rotation. Unless you sign a guy like Kris Benson, who is probably going to cost alot without giving you that much, so really the FA market isnt good for filling the rotation and our prospects arent good enough to fill the spots all season long. Even guys like Egbert are starting to break down with the # of innings going up. Maybe a guy like Phillips will step up and become an okay 5th starter later in the season but the sox just wont win this division or wildcard with floyd and danks(this season).

 

I hate to be the barer of reality here, but the chances of us competing with the Tribe and Tigers next season is low. I'm 100% all for whatever moves nail down positions for the longterm. If trading Garland fills 2 holes longterm then do it. The more positions you lock in longterm, the less s*** you have to deal with. The team needs so much this offseason, and chances are we aren't going to get it all. Lock in as much as you can. If we can go into next offseason with all 9 of offensive positions figured out, then I like our chances in 2009 as we wont have nearly as many holes as this offseason and a much better free agent crop to work with.

[BearSox]

That's what Crisp is, and yet some people want it. I agree with you though.

Crisp has more speed, is younger (more of a chance of improvement), and plays very good D in Center. I think it is a pretty big difference.

[BearSox]

But then your stuck with Floyd and Danks in your rotation. Unless you sign a guy like Kris Benson, who is probably going to cost alot without giving you that much, so really the FA market isnt good for filling the rotation and our prospects arent good enough to fill the spots all season long. Even guys like Egbert are starting to break down with the # of innings going up. Maybe a guy like Phillips will step up and become an okay 5th starter later in the season but the sox just wont win this division or wildcard with floyd and danks(this season).

 

You gotta give the youngsters the ball some time. Danks has already had one season and will only get better. Floyd is still young as well and can be a big surprise next season. You can't keep "veterans" in there forever. What, should we have all our top pitching prospects rot away in the minors wasting possibly some good years? Or trade them all and have no pitching depth in the farm? We gotta give the young guys the ball, and better now then ever as well, as our odds of competing next year is minimal right now.

[sircaffey]

Crisp has more speed, is younger (more of a chance of improvement), and plays very good D in Center. I think it is a pretty big difference.

 

Why will Crisp improve? A lot of people say he will, but why? What has he shown lately to give anyone that impression. He's been horrible at the plate the last two seasons. Not that I want either at their prices, but I'd much rather have Castillo than Crisp. They are very similar players (good speed, good defense), but Castillo is clearly more productive.

[BearSox]

Why will Crisp improve? A lot of people say he will, but why? What has he shown lately to give anyone that impression. He's been horrible at the plate the last two seasons. Not that I want either at their prices, but I'd much rather have Castillo than Crisp. They are very similar players (good speed, good defense), but Castillo is clearly more productive.

Well, Crisp has played half of his games at Boston, and being a switch hitter, most of his AB's are as a lefty, and Boston isn't a very lefty friendly ball park. Crisp playing half of his games in our launching pad will most likely increase his stats. Castillo is on the downside of his career and his skills are declining (like another certain Twins free agent). Plus, we already have our 2B, we don't have our CF and/or LF.

[sircaffey]

Well, Crisp has played half of his games at Boston, and being a switch hitter, most of his AB's are as a lefty, and Boston isn't a very lefty friendly ball park. Crisp playing half of his games in our launching pad will most likely increase his stats. Castillo is on the downside of his career and his skills are declining (like another certain Twins free agent). Plus, we already have our 2B, we don't have our CF and/or LF.

 

Crisp was much better at home than on the road the past two years. Boston's a good hitters park no matter what side you hit from. Not to mention the lineup he hits in is fantastic.

[witesoxfan]

Crisp has more speed, is younger (more of a chance of improvement), and plays very good D in Center. I think it is a pretty big difference.

 

And he's a pretty s***ty hitter; .750 OPS, sure, but if it costs Carter - which it might - then no f'ing way.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Why will Crisp improve? A lot of people say he will, but why? What has he shown lately to give anyone that impression. He's been horrible at the plate the last two seasons. Not that I want either at their prices, but I'd much rather have Castillo than Crisp. They are very similar players (good speed, good defense), but Castillo is clearly more productive.

The main issue with Crisp is health. He hasn't been healthy and that lack of health really effected his production the past season or so. Now there is obviously no guarantee he regains his health but this is a guy that can be had without giving up a top prospect for. He is easily better than what we had in CF or LF last year and would add much needed speed and youth to this club (no he's not incredibly young, but he's still on the right side of 30).

 

s***, as far as I'm concerned unless Kenny brings in numerous guys under 30, I don't want the Sox to touch anyone over 30 unless they are a reliever or a bench player (If they just go out and add more 30+ year old vets this team will be the Oriole's and fast). Go out and get agressive, give up what you need to for Dejesus/Crisp/Bay/Furcal (although he's older than the other's mentioned)/Khalil.

 

Than swing Contreras for something and stick it out with Garland (and just reap the draft picks and hope he pitches his ass off and you can actually come to terms with him). Unless of course you get an awesome deal for Jon. Bottom line is Kenny shoudl try to win but he should be trying to win without mortgaging the entire future and by acquiring guys like Dejesus/Crisp/Bay/Furcal you aren't mortaging the future as you can build around these guys in 09 and on too (even though you are giving up prospects and in Bay's case top notch prospects or major league talent such as Garland/Contreras in the case of Furcal).

 

Bottom line, Kenny, please don't be a f***ing idiot and bring in more and more veterans. You can win next year by bringing in younger players that fit the Sox needs (even if it means being all over the trade lines). I'm not talking rooks, just solid young players (that may not fit in where they are anymore) that can help the SOx do what Kenny thinks they can (win next year) and if the Sox don't win next year, you now have a good core of young players to use along with Fields and some of the Sox young pitching to help the Sox contend in 09/10/11.

 

If Kenny does what I think he'll do, this team will be cellar dwellers for years.

[BearSox]

And he's a pretty s***ty hitter; .750 OPS, sure, but if it costs Carter - which it might - then no f'ing way.

Oh I agree with that. If it costs Carter, screw that.

[Frankensteiner]

Richar seems like, at worst, he'll be able to give us those OPS numbers this season for the league minimum. And Danny will probably put up significantly better OPS numbers than that given a little more work. He put up a .695 OPS this season after coming up as a very raw talent, and he put up a .752 OPS in September (his 2nd full month).

 

That's one way to look at it. Another is that he had about a 2 week hot streak during his enitre 2 month stretch. Regardless, his OBP was pathetic. If Uribe is our shortstop, we need someone to get on base. Castillo might be a singles hitter but singles are still better than outs. We need some guys with high OBP.

[Jack Parkman]

The main issue with Crisp is health. He hasn't been healthy and that lack of health really effected his production the past season or so. Now there is obviously no guarantee he regains his health but this is a guy that can be had without giving up a top prospect for. He is easily better than what we had in CF or LF last year and would add much needed speed and youth to this club (no he's not incredibly young, but he's still on the right side of 30).

 

s***, as far as I'm concerned unless Kenny brings in numerous guys under 30, I don't want the Sox to touch anyone over 30 unless they are a reliever or a bench player (If they just go out and add more 30+ year old vets this team will be the Oriole's and fast). Go out and get agressive, give up what you need to for Dejesus/Crisp/Bay/Furcal (although he's older than the other's mentioned)/Khalil.

 

Than swing Contreras for something and stick it out with Garland (and just reap the draft picks and hope he pitches his ass off and you can actually come to terms with him). Unless of course you get an awesome deal for Jon. Bottom line is Kenny shoudl try to win but he should be trying to win without mortgaging the entire future and by acquiring guys like Dejesus/Crisp/Bay/Furcal you aren't mortaging the future as you can build around these guys in 09 and on too (even though you are giving up prospects and in Bay's case top notch prospects or major league talent such as Garland/Contreras in the case of Furcal).

 

Bottom line, Kenny, please don't be a f***ing idiot and bring in more and more veterans. You can win next year by bringing in younger players that fit the Sox needs (even if it means being all over the trade lines). I'm not talking rooks, just solid young players (that may not fit in where they are anymore) that can help the SOx do what Kenny thinks they can (win next year) and if the Sox don't win next year, you now have a good core of young players to use along with Fields and some of the Sox young pitching to help the Sox contend in 09/10/11.

 

If Kenny does what I think he'll do, this team will be cellar dwellers for years.

I think that If I were KW i'd look at bringing in some promising young talent that is being platooned from another team that has a logjam at CF or SS because both players are of similar talent, are ML ready and the team can't just give them away. And if they are both of similar talent, take the one that the other team doesn't want, because you'd have to give up less. Who knows, you might just end up with the better player. You could also look for a Jim Thome-Ryan Howard type situation in the NL, but go for the young guy this time instead. As a matter of fact, I don't know why GMs don't use this strategy more often.

On another topic, If Mark Buehrle isn't worth Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden then in no way, shape or form is Coco Crisp worth Chris Carter. Epstein is on some good s*** if he came up with that one. If every other team's top prospects are untouchable then ours should be too.

Edited November 2, 2007 by southsida86

[witesoxfan]

I think that If I were KW i'd look at bringing in some promising young talent that is being platooned from another team that has a logjam at CF or SS because both players are of similar talent, are ML ready and the team can't just give them away. And if they are both of similar talent, take the one that the other team doesn't want, because you'd have to give up less. Who knows, you might just end up with the better player. You could also look for a Jim Thome-Ryan Howard type situation in the NL, but go for the young guy this time instead. As a matter of fact, I don't know why GMs don't use this strategy more often.

On another topic, If Mark Buehrle isn't worth Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden then in no way, shape or form is Coco Crisp worth Chris Carter. Epstein is on some good s*** if he came up with that one. If every other team's top prospects are untouchable then ours should be too.

 

Carter's a 1B prospect who has pretty poor defense who showed some promise, but nothing substantial or elite at Low-A. Buchholz threw a no-hitter in the majors, and I imagine the Red Sox would have given up Bowden, just not Justin Masterson, the guy the Sox really wanted.

 

Looks like Theo was right in not moving them.

 

And the Red Sox were after Dye, not Buehrle; they would have had Dye for 3 months, including the playoffs, while Crisp will be around another 2 years. That's another huge difference.

[CWSGuy406]

Than swing Contreras for something and stick it out with Garland (and just reap the draft picks and hope he pitches his ass off and you can actually come to terms with him).

 

Here are the Elias rankings for free agent compensation:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al...-complete_N.htm

 

Garland grades out as a 'B' this year, despite the fact that he had a pretty good ERA and a pretty good ERA+. The only way for him to get 'A' status is if he repeats his 2005 season, and I'd bet highly against that happening.

 

Because of this, I don't think there should be any question whether the Sox trade Garland. You let him pitch this whole season, don't resign him and all you're going to come away with is a second round pick? That can't happen, and if Kenny allows it to happen, it would probably be the biggest f***-up in his tenure. Some team out there will be willing to give up something decent for Garland -- Kenny has to find the right deal and he's gotta be right (in other words, the players he gets back have to pan out) on the deal.

 

Hell, I don't even know if resigning him is an acceptable option. If you resign him, you're basically saying you don't have faith in the group of minor league arms you've assembled (Haeger, Egbert, Gio, Danks and to a lesser extent DLS). I have to think there's a package out there that's slightly better than what we got for Garcia (a B prospect like Gio plus something more useful than Floyd). If Kenny trades Garland for a package centered around a/several reliever(s), I will have completely lost faith in him and will start calling for his head.

 

This is a make-or-break winter for this franchise. If Kenny trades prospects for 30 year olds, you can kiss the playoffs goodbye for the next five-ten years.

[RockRaines]

Owens>Crisp Can we please drop it

[rockren]

I'd rather have Jerry Owens in CF for $400,000 than Torii Hunter in CF for 40x that amount...but I contend that you can't put Owens in CF if you don't fix your SS spot.

 

I don't know why more people haven't said this. These FA CFs aren't worth half of what they'll ask for.

 

[rockren]

Owens>Crisp Can we please drop it

 

Agreed. However if we can get Crisp for nothing...it's worth looking into. Whoever said Chris Carter for him......BWAHAHAHA.

 

If we do get Crisp and find a team that just has to have Fields...things could get interesting.

[Dick Allen]

Owens>Crisp Can we please drop it

Maybe at some things. Not at baseball.