Torii Hunter

[RockRaines]

Maybe at some things. Not at baseball.

Hmmmm. So Post all star Jerry which is basically when he was brought back up.

 

.278 .339 .327 27sb

 

Crisp

 

.268 .330 .382 28sb in twice the at bats

[Dick Allen]

Hmmmm. So Post all star Jerry which is basically when he was brought back up.

 

.278 .339 .327 27sb

 

Crisp

 

.268 .330 .382 28sb in twice the at bats

You're kidding right? If post all star numbers are the end all, how do you come to any conclusion that Furcal is a good idea at $13 million? Keep in mind if the White Sox were playing for anything, Jerry would have been in Charlotte.

[RockRaines]

You're kidding right? If post all star numbers are the end all, how do you come to any conclusion that Furcal is a good idea at $13 million? Keep in mind if the White Sox were playing for anything, Jerry would have been in Charlotte.

Well that was when he was brought up for the second time. I guess since Furcal was not a rookie that was brought up twice thats why its not a good comparison. Coco Crisp is no better than Jerry numbers-wise and bringing the salary into the mix and its very lopsided towards Jerry.

[witesoxfan]

Well that was when he was brought up for the second time. I guess since Furcal was not a rookie that was brought up twice thats why its not a good comparison. Coco Crisp is no better than Jerry numbers-wise and bringing the salary into the mix and its very lopsided towards Jerry.

 

Use salary if you have to, but making a statement like that is flat out lying. Seriously, since when is .712 = .636, and not 76 points higher?

 

Depending on the pricetag, I'd much prefer Crisp to Owens.

[Kalapse]

Use salary if you have to, but making a statement like that is flat out lying. Seriously, since when is .712 = .636, and not 76 points higher?

 

Depending on the pricetag, I'd much prefer Crisp to Owens.

And Crisp also has the potential to put up an .800 OPS, I don't think Owens will ever come within 70 points of that number.

[Lemon_44]

I'd rather have Owens over Crisp just because i think he can develop into a better player than Coco. Sadly, i think the Sox are going to end up with Rowand out there in CF. To me, that's the worst case. 2005 is gone.Brining Rowand back is not going to bring back any magic from that year.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

Let me get this straight. Ozzie complains about how many strikeouts we had last year, so we're bringing in somebody who strikes out 100 times a year? I like Hunter, just seems kinda contradictory to me. But, I guess I'm used to it. They keep talking about doing the little things and then don't. Now we're going to change things in

Spring Training? Didn't they say the same exact thing last year? But I digress. Get Hunter or Rowand, get a major league shortstop and someone who can play second base. Let's field a major league team this year vs. a bunch of kids. Stop this small market mentality. They can't use the attendance excuse any longer. You guys flocked to the ballpark to watch a horrible team last year.

[WCSox]

I'd rather not pay Hunter and save the money for Miguel Cabrera. That guy loves Ozzie. Show him the money and get him in shape. He would be awesome at USCF.

 

Just don't let him play 3B.

[Melissa1334]

I'd rather have Owens over Crisp just because i think he can develop into a better player than Coco. Sadly, i think the Sox are going to end up with Rowand out there in CF. To me, that's the worst case. 2005 is gone.Brining Rowand back is not going to bring back any magic from that year.

great post, i agree. this yr was a career year for rowand, i dont think he's a 100 rbi guy. 14 mill a year or so, might as well have owens in cf and use the money else where

[Lemon_44]

This whole Hunter situation got me thinking and it reminds of me when we acquired Ellis Burks. I know he was later in his career. Didn't he have about 1-2 good years and then fell apart physically? Those 2 years he was very good but i can see the Hunter situation mirroring that. At least with Burks i don't think the Sox were on the hook for alot of money after he broke down.

[Kalapse]

Ellis Burks signed a 1 year deal with the Sox in 1993 at the age of 28. He had a pretty good season and left through free agency. The following season he put up a 1.066 OPS for the Rockies and went on to play another 10 above average seasons after that. I don't think it's Ellis Burks you're thinking of.

[Lemon_44]

Ellis Burks signed a 1 year deal with the Sox in 1993 at the age of 28. He had a pretty good season and left through free agency. The following season he put up a 1.066 OPS for the Rockies and went on to play another 10 above average seasons after that. I don't think it's Ellis Burks you're thinking of.

You know, i was thinking of Burks but it was when he joined the Indians. I'm in Ohio so that Indians crap must've seeped into my brain. He had 2 good years with Cleveland at age 36,37 and then was hurt and done about a year later.My bad.

[Dick Allen]

Well that was when he was brought up for the second time. I guess since Furcal was not a rookie that was brought up twice thats why its not a good comparison. Coco Crisp is no better than Jerry numbers-wise and bringing the salary into the mix and its very lopsided towards Jerry.

On August 31st, Jerry Owens was hitting .239 with a .597 OPS. He had a nice September, but he's not very good. Using your logic, he's pretty much a lock to hit .340, so why trade or sign anyone. Even Ozzie said if your not in contention, don't believe what you see in September.

[NorthSideSox72]

On August 31st, Jerry Owens was hitting .239 with a .597 OPS. He had a nice September, but he's not very good. Using your logic, he's pretty much a lock to hit .340, so why trade or sign anyone. Even Ozzie said if your not in contention, don't believe what you see in September.

As usual, a discussion of JO can't be had without someone pointing to September and saying he's great, followed by someone pointing out his his June-August saying he's not. How about some solid overall perspective? Like the fact that after he got called up in early July, he improved each month in the majors? He was better in July (far better) than his early season callup... his August was better than that... and his Septmber was the best of them all.

 

Owens showed surprisingly good performance in 2007. That doesn't mean he's going to be the next Rickey Henderson, but it also doesn't mean that he was some sort of one-month aberration either. He may turn out to be an OK player yet, especially if he can develop a little power (at least some gap power anyway).

 

[Dick Allen]

As usual, a discussion of JO can't be had without someone pointing to September and saying he's great, followed by someone pointing out his his June-August saying he's not. How about some solid overall perspective? Like the fact that after he got called up in early July, he improved each month in the majors? He was better in July (far better) than his early season callup... his August was better than that... and his Septmber was the best of them all.

He hit .287 in July, .229 in August. He is a 4th OF at best. He'll be 27 years old on opening day. He's only 15 months younger than Coco Crisp. Its not like he's some 21 or 22 year old destined to improve.As of now he is a 1 month abberration. Without September, everyone would agree he sucks.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

On August 31st, Jerry Owens was hitting .239 with a .597 OPS. He had a nice September, but he's not very good. Using your logic, he's pretty much a lock to hit .340, so why trade or sign anyone. Even Ozzie said if your not in contention, don't believe what you see in September.

Why must you make stuff up to try and make a crappy point to begin with. I never said anything about him hitting .340, but when he was called up for good this season he out performed Coco Crisp for the same spot in the order they would both fill. Crisp not only costs too much, but he is way overrated by some, especially with how much people crap on Jerry. Check out the numbers, if you disagree so much, tell me why, instead of trying to fabricate my theories out of thin air.

[CWSGuy406]

FWIW, according to a (respected) poster at SouthSideSox, Bill James' Handbook apparently has Jerry Owens pegged for a .274/.340/.340 line in 2008.

 

If I could be guaranteed right now that Owens would give the Sox that, I don't think I'd completely mind that in CF -- going with some quazi platoon with both Anderson and Owens getting CF at-bats. Of course, if this were the case, I still don't think the Sox would compete -- and that's not a knock on Owens (or whoever plays CF next year, really) but more indicative of the rest of the roster. There's one 'star' player offensively, the rest figure to be (adjusting for position) anywhere from slightly above average to well below average.

[WilliamTell]

whoever the starting CF is, I think the most crucial part of this teams success is how Thome, Konerko, and Dye do. Being the veterans and leaders they are, if they get off to hot start, this team will be much better than last year.

[Dick Allen]

Why must you make stuff up to try and make a crappy point to begin with. I never said anything about him hitting .340, but when he was called up for good this season he out performed Coco Crisp for the same spot in the order they would both fill. Crisp not only costs too much, but he is way overrated by some, especially with how much people crap on Jerry. Check out the numbers, if you disagree so much, tell me why, instead of trying to fabricate my theories out of thin air.

I did tell you. You are basing all of Owens success on one successful month in the major leagues. As I said before, on August 31 he was hitting .239 with an OPS of under .600. That is not good. I also told you maybe if he were a lot younger you may have some sort of point, but the guy will be 27 next February. Your claim that Owens is better than Crisp based on meaningless games vs. a guy where games do matter, both playing in different parks etc. is almost obnoxious. The other problem is Owens hits very few balls hard. I know the argument he's a leadoff hitter his job is to get on base, but in the AL with no pitcher batting before him, the leadoff guy bats with more men on base and in scoring position than they do in the NL. A big percentage of Owens hits are hits that advance runners only 1 base even with 2 out. Its not that I don't like Jerry Owens. I really was a big fan a couple of years ago, but he's not a regular player for a championship calibur team which the White Sox are trying to be. While you might not like Crisp's pricetag, its probably pretty reasonable considering Hunter may get $15 million a year and his OBP is under .330 for his career, and Rowand will get 8 figures and it wasn't too long ago he was such a bust KW had to get Carl Everett to play CF. If Crisp resembles the player he was in Cleveland, he's a bargain. If he's like he was in Boston, he's probably slightly overpriced, but USCF is a place where he could flourish. He's hit pretty well there the past 3 years.

Edited November 3, 2007 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

Explain to me how his performance in Sept means nothing? I dont get totally throwing out one month of the season because you deem it worthless. Based on Jerry's numbers, and his improvement, there is no doubt that him and Crisp are very similar players at extremely different price tags.

[beck72]

Owens is only 1 year and 3 months younger than Crisp [who broke into the bigs 4 years earlier than Owens did]. It's hard to argue that Owens will match Crisp production in the long term, let alone the next two years.

[beck72]

Explain to me how his performance in Sept means nothing? I dont get totally throwing out one month of the season because you deem it worthless. Based on Jerry's numbers, and his improvement, there is no doubt that him and Crisp are very similar players at extremely different price tags.

Unless a team is in the playoff hunt in Sept., a lot of games are meaningless--AAA pitchers, and young defenders litter rosters at this time. I think Owens month showed some promise. Was it enough to not upgrade? that's the question. That the sox seem very intent on upgrading CF with a bigger name says something about how they view Owens. Or that they have plans to move Fields to 3b and slide Owens to LF.

[Dick Allen]

Explain to me how his performance in Sept means nothing? I dont get totally throwing out one month of the season because you deem it worthless. Based on Jerry's numbers, and his improvement, there is no doubt that him and Crisp are very similar players at extremely different price tags.

There is no doubt from you. There is a lot of doubt with others. As I stated, Owens was hitting .239 with an OPS under .600 one month before the season ended. How does one month in meaningless games qualify as being better than another player who even in a down year had a higher BA, OBP and SLG than Owens? The games aren't as intense when you are playing out the string. David Aaardsma should have been lights out in 2007 the way he pitched with nothing riding on the outcome in 2006. I didn't invent the September numbers are teasers train of thought.

[fathom]

Going into 2008 with Owens as your starting CF is stupid. With all the tough lefties in the division, you'd have to have a back-up outfielder getting way too many significant at-bats.

[RockRaines]

Going into 2008 with Owens as your starting CF is stupid. With all the tough lefties in the division, you'd have to have a back-up outfielder getting way too many significant at-bats.

No s*** its stupid. Even worse to have Coco Crisp at his salary, and to have lost a player for him.