Don Shula needs to go to hell.

[Steve9347]

Shula: Spygate would diminish a perfect Pats season

ESPN.com news services

 

Don Shula likes the Patriots' chances of going undefeated, but the Bill Belichick-inspired spying scandal has clouded Shula's thinking when comparing New England with his unbeaten 1972 Dolphins team.

 

To his chagrin, Don Shula believes the Patriots and Barry Bonds have something in common.

 

"The Spygate thing has diminished what they've accomplished," Shula said in an interview with the New York Daily News. "You would hate to have that attached to your accomplishments. They've got it."

 

Belichick was fined $500,000 and the Patriots were fined $250,000 and lost a first-round draft pick for videotaping the Jets' opposing sideline during the teams' season-opening game.

 

"That tells you the seriousness or significance of what they found," Shula said, according to the Daily News. "I guess you got the same thing as putting an asterisk by Barry Bonds' home run record.

 

"I guess it will be noted that the Patriots were fined and a No. 1 draft choice was taken away during that year of accomplishment. The sad thing is Tom Brady looks so good, it doesn't look like he needs any help."

 

The way the Patriots have been playing, Shula and the '72 Dolphins might find themselves answering more questions than in past years about whether their record will stand. New England improved to 9-0 on Sunday by beating the previously unbeaten Colts (7-1) in Indianapolis.

 

There have been serious runs made at the Dolphins' record before. The 1985 Bears started 12-0, then lost on a Monday night to a Dolphins team coached by Shula. The 1991 Redskins started 11-0 and the 1998 Broncos and 2005 Colts opened 13-0 before losing. Although members of the '72 Dolphins have become known for sipping champagne after the last unbeaten team falls by the wayside each season, Shula says stories of that annual celebration "have been blown out of proportion."

 

"You guys put forth the myth that we are pathetic losers down here clicking champagne glasses and clinging desperately to a record set 35 years ago," former Dolphins tight end Jim Mandich told the Daily News. "Somehow we've been portrayed as being evil. We don't ever blow our own horn. It's a great record, but the record doesn't get beaten.

 

"The Patriots have assembled a powerhouse of a team. They are a classy bunch of guys and play ball the right way. If they want to join the unbeaten club, come on aboard."

 

Looks like he's already got it set up just in case the Pats go undefeated so he has an excuse. I am so incredibly sick of the '72 Dolphins I could vomit on my own pants.

 

On my own pants!

[kapkomet]

I qon't vomit on my own pants, but I agree. Shula is pretty full of himself.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I dont care WHO does it, but PLEASE someone go undefeated so those damn dolphins will go away!

[Gregory Pratt]

He wants to bring up the asterisk and that's all well, but if he wants to do that he should realize the context:

 

Maris/Mantle played in more games than Ruth, therefore: "Break record, asterisk, because there's more games now."

 

Maybe there should be an asterisk placed on the Dolphins, if the Patriots go undefeated, to say that they played less games and so it's less impressive?

 

What bothers me most about it, though, is that Mangini cried about "Spygate" because he wanted to embarrass Belichick, not because he had a serious complaint. Leak it and let people call them cheaters as if no one else does it. Of course, it backfired and now NE has its old "no respect!" mantra.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Gregory Pratt

[Soxbadger]

Im surprised to see Mr. Pratt in here defending Belichick.

 

How is playing more games comparable to blatantly cheating?

 

Its like what Bonds did, now if your on the side of the fence like me who does not care about Bonds cheating, then I can understand you wouldnt care about Belichick.

 

But how can some people sit on their soap box (not pointing out anyone particular) and say Bonds is the worse thing in the world, and then say what Belichick did is okay, or not as bad. They both cheated, cheating is cheating.

[Gregory Pratt]

Im surprised to see Mr. Pratt in here defending Belichick.

 

How is playing more games comparable to blatantly cheating?

 

Its like what Bonds did, now if your on the side of the fence like me who does not care about Bonds cheating, then I can understand you wouldnt care about Belichick.

 

But how can some people sit on their soap box (not pointing out anyone particular) and say Bonds is the worse thing in the world, and then say what Belichick did is okay, or not as bad. They both cheated, cheating is cheating.

 

You don't know my stance on Bonds. I'm not even sure what my stance on Bonds is!

 

But basically, these are the things I believe about Barry:

 

I don't want him near my teams because he's a circus and a divider

He's good

He is a cheater

It is a shame that he juiced because of envy/anger (Book of Shadows/Love Me Hate Me)

I don't think he's a monster for cheating -- I do take issue with what his girlfriend says he'd do to her

Baseball is full of cheaters, from Pud Galvin to Gaylord Perry to Bonds to even guys like Mark Buehrle who have admitted to putting just a wee bit of pinetar on the ball "sometimes"

 

I have yet to determine just how bad Bonds' steroids use is to me, or how much contempt I have for juicers. But as I've spoken to journalists, a few scouts, people from this forum, friends, etc. etc. I realize that there's a lot to steroids in baseball and I begin to get angry whenever I hear people talk about how it was just Bonds or Sosa or McGwire -- it isn't.

 

In other words: I don't know yet how I feel for sure. I still don't like Bonds, but my position is growing and evolving.

 

As for the "asterisk" -- I was making a contextual crack. The original asterisk corresponded to season-length -- maybe, if NE goes undefeated, we should make a mark that says their "undefeated season" isn't equal to NE's because NE had a longer schedule.

 

And cheating? Please. Belichick did nothing wrong and that's why the Ravens embarrassed Mangini. The fact that this is even an issue means that Mangini won.

 

Until NE wins the Super Bowl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Soxbadger]

Belichick did nothing wrong

 

If he did nothing wrong, than why was a 1st rounder taken away from him?

 

I dont remember who said it, I think it was Collinsworth (maybe), but they basically implied that Belichick has been doing this type of cheating since he coached Cleveland.

 

And I know that you are not an outspoken advocate against Bonds, thats why I prefaced it.

 

IMO, if you are going to blast cheaters, you have to go after all cheaters.

[Gregory Pratt]

I think there are definitely nuances. That's why Bonds doesn't get a, "I HATE HIM!" from me.

 

But yeah, if Belichick's been doing this forever, I'm sure he's not alone. As for why he got a first rounder taken away -- he did something against the rules that the Jets outed him for but that no one else would've bothered with if not for Mangini's whining.

[Gregory Pratt]

Here's a controversial statement: cheating is good. Getting caught is bad. Getting caught because your whiny former assistant, well, whined is embarrassing and bad but not necessarily a knock on you. That's what every Coach in the NFL understands: that's why the Ravens embarrassed Mangini the very next week.

[DrunkBomber]

Heres what I brought up a few other times. I completely understand what Shula is doing, what most people pointed out and just getting it out there in case they do go undefeated so he can be on record saying they thinks he cheated. It makes him look like an ass and a whiner.

 

Also, doing this is so stupid because if theres one thing about this Patriots team that to me seems fairly obvious its that they feed off of stuff like this. If there was any chance, which I doubt, of them sitting their starters after they clinch Shula pretty much ruined. This made the Patriots decision easy, now they are absolutely gonna go for the undefeated mark to spite Shula.

[StrangeSox]

Here's a controversial statement: cheating is good. Getting caught is bad. Getting caught because your whiny former assistant, well, whined is embarrassing and bad but not necessarily a knock on you. That's what every Coach in the NFL understands: that's why the Ravens embarrassed Mangini the very next week.

 

Ethics be damned!

[Middle Buffalo]

I really don't like the Patriots, but I kind of hope they go undefeated so the '72 Dolphins will go away. Not that I condone the cheating of the Patriots, but I find it highly unlikely that they are the only team that did this type of surveilance. The NFL emphasized before the season that video surlveilance like the Patriots were doing is against the rules. I doubt it was because only one team was doing it. NE was just too arrogant to stop. Other teams probably stopped. It's similar to the NCAA. Only a handful of teams get caught and penalized for cheating. Does that mean that they're the only ones. Cheating is rampant in sports - and, really, in life in general. Most people will take advantage if they think they can get away with something.

 

For the record, the '72 Dolphins' strength of schedule hardly makes them seem like one of the all-time greats.

 

Record: 14-0

 

Points scored/allowed: 385/171

 

Opponents' record: 70-108-4 (.396)*

 

Record against teams with winning records: 2-0

 

Points scored/allowed against teams with winning records: 43/23

*For all of these opponents' records, games against this team are excluded.

 

 

[Kid Gleason]

But from what I read the tape with the cheating was stopped before anybody had a chance to look at what was taped, therefore the Patriots never got their "edge". They cheated, but without being able to use the cheat. So I would think that would mean their efforts are still there.

[Middle Buffalo]

But from what I read the tape with the cheating was stopped before anybody had a chance to look at what was taped, therefore the Patriots never got their "edge". They cheated, but without being able to use the cheat. So I would think that would mean their efforts are still there.

Right. They were caught taping the Jets in their first game this season. Everything since has been legit, so I don't really get Shula's point. God, I wish the Bears had just beat them in '85.

[False Alarm]

For the record, the '72 Dolphins' strength of schedule hardly makes them seem like one of the all-time greats.

 

Record: 14-0

 

Points scored/allowed: 385/171

 

Opponents' record: 70-108-4 (.396)*

 

Record against teams with winning records: 2-0

 

Points scored/allowed against teams with winning records: 43/23

*For all of these opponents' records, games against this team are excluded.

how'd they fare their final three games of that 17-0 season? did those last three teams have losing records?

 

the '72 dolphins were first in points scored and points allowed. they were first in yards gained and yards allowed. only 3 of their 14 reg-season games were decided by less than a TD. and they did all this while their starting QB missed 9 games. then they had to go on the road to beat pittsburgh in the AFC championship game cuz there was no home-field advantage back then. maybe they weren't the greatest team ever--a lotta peeps say the 1973 dolphins were actually far better, and i think they thrashed a lotta teams they played if that's the criterion--but to suggest the undefeated dolphins weren't one of the all-time great teams is f***ing stupid.

 

i disagree with coach shula that spygate diminishes the pats' season if they go undefeated. but i think he's right that spygate would not be forgotten. it'd remain a footnote to the season, something frequently mentioned when people talked about the 2007 pats. not sure how peeps could disagree with that or get upset with shula for pointing it out.

 

(sounds like some people are just bitter about december 2, 1985. )

[thedoctor]

shula was on mike and mike this morning and did a better job of not sounding like a bitter old man.

 

he did say that the scandal happened after the first game and that since then new england has played great football. he seemed to back away from any suggestion of the season being tainted or deserving an asterisk, although when asked directly he'd only say "it's not my place to make those kinds of decisions."

[Rex Kickass]

The way I see it, Shula's right. Well, right-ish.

 

If Barry Bonds gets an asterisk for suspicion of steroid use enhancing his game, which is unproven (yes I know about the leaked testimony, but there's no proof that any steroid use actually improved his game)...

The Pats should get an asterisk for getting caught trying to cheat.

Don Shula, however, should get an asterisk for being an ass.

[thedoctor]

The way I see it, Shula's right. Well, right-ish.

 

If Barry Bonds gets an asterisk for suspicion of steroid use enhancing his game, which is unproven (yes I know about the leaked testimony, but there's no proof that any steroid use actually improved his game)...

The Pats should get an asterisk for getting caught trying to cheat.

Don Shula, however, should get an asterisk for being an ass.

 

don did used to have an asterisk, but that was before nutri-system.

[longshot7]

I support cheating.

I hate Don Shula and the 72 Dolphins.

There are no asterisks in professional sports. Not really. That's a popular misconception.

[Be Good]

I dont care WHO does it, but PLEASE someone go undefeated so those damn dolphins will go away!

Never....That all us Fin fans have at times like these.

[T R U]

Never....That all us Fin fans have at times like these.

 

Exactly

 

And everyone else who hates the Dolphins perfect season is probably just bitter that either A.) No one else has ever done it so its just the Fins!!! or B.) they ruined the poor Bears shot at the undefeated season

 

The 72 Dolphins are the greatest team period in the history of the NFL.. Only undefeated team ever, I don't know how you can argue with that regardless of who they played or that the season was a whole 2 games shorter.. No one else has ever done it, ever, so obviously its not that easy

[santo=dorf]

So how will the Dolphins celebrate after they go 0-16 this year?

 

[witesoxfan]

The 72 Dolphins are the greatest team period in the history of the NFL.. Only undefeated team ever, I don't know how you can argue with that regardless of who they played or that the season was a whole 2 games shorter.. No one else has ever done it, ever, so obviously its not that easy

 

I'm just going to say that I feel the 85 Bears team was better; it's quite an easy argument too. They won more games, scored more points per game (including postseason), allowed fewer points per game (including postseason), and allowed fewer points total, including postseason again, while playing 2 more games. Add to it that they only had 2 games that were even close (close is a one score difference), while the Dolphins had 7 (again, including postseason), and there's no doubt to me that the Bears were the superior team.

[T R U]

I'm just going to say that I feel the 85 Bears team was better; it's quite an easy argument too. They won more games, scored more points per game (including postseason), allowed fewer points per game (including postseason), and allowed fewer points total, including postseason again, while playing 2 more games. Add to it that they only had 2 games that were even close (close is a one score difference), while the Dolphins had 7 (again, including postseason), and there's no doubt to me that the Bears were the superior team.

 

Except one went undefeated and the other one didnt

[witesoxfan]

Except one went undefeated and the other one didnt

 

K...that's your only argument. Sweet.