Sox's hunt for OF is on

[PAUL KONERKO 14]

Even if they are picking up most of his contract, I still do not want him here.

[rockren]

Even if they are picking up most of his contract, I still do not want him here.

 

It's all a moot point because the Dodgers are interested in moving him to LF for THEMSELVES. They're not going to deal him so we need not worry.

[PAUL KONERKO 14]

It's all a moot point because the Dodgers are interested in moving him to LF for THEMSELVES. They're not going to deal him so we need not worry.

Wheew

[Chisoxfn]

I dont' know where some of you are getting your information but the Dodgers will do everything they can to move Pierre. They were not happy with him this past year and have to get Ethier and Kemp more at bats. Now it is highly possible that Kemp gets moved due to rubbing some people the wrong way but bottom line, I'd be very surprised if Pierre isn't moved (the Dodgers would like to move him and the only question is what type of cash they'd be willing to send to the other squad and what they would be demanding).

[Dick Allen]

You look at Pierre's numbers and you wonder why was 2007 so dissappointing? Its pretty much right in line with his 2006. He's not ideal in any way, shape or form, but if the Dodgers want very little for him and will eat a lot of his contract, he's really not bad. I don't think many would have complained if KW signed him after 2006 to a contract that paid him $5 million a year or so. He plays everyday, and he actually can bunt. It would be my option E or F, but its really not that horrible of an idea, again depending on how much the Dodgers want to eat of the contract.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why on earth would you pay $7.5M a year for Juan Pierre, when you can get the same OBP or better (Pierre is around .330 the last 3 seasons), same lack of power, same defense (maybe better) and same speed (and a better SB%) from Jerry Owens for $400k a year?

 

Makes zero sense. If its Pierre they want, stick with Owens, and save the extra $7M to spend on some sort of useful player or differential.

 

EDIT: Make that $8 to $10M a year, I just saw his contract details. Waste of money.

 

[Chisoxfn]

You look at Pierre's numbers and you wonder why was 2007 so dissappointing? Its pretty much right in line with his 2006. He's not ideal in any way, shape or form, but if the Dodgers want very little for him and will eat a lot of his contract, he's really not bad. I don't think many would have complained if KW signed him after 2006 to a contract that paid him $5 million a year or so. He plays everyday, and he actually can bunt. It would be my option E or F, but its really not that horrible of an idea, again depending on how much the Dodgers want to eat of the contract.

I really wouldn't have a problem with Pierre too if it was for the right price. I don't like Pierre as the #1 hitter and would prefer to see him hitting in the 2 hole where you can take advantage of his strong bat control and bunting (and you will still be utilizing his speed). You find a way to get someone else who can leadoff (which unfortunately could turn into a problem unless the Sox do in fact decide to use Uribe as a super sub after Crede is dealt and find a way to upgrade at SS). That or if the Sox turn to some other route as a Cfer (but none of the Cf names that have been tied to the Sox are what I'd call leadoff hitters).

 

Right now I'm hoping for Aaron Rowand to come back to Chicago, slide him into the 2 slot with the Sox finding a way to get a couple younger players into the roster (Rowand is at least the youngest of all of the so called CF free agents and his year was truly stellar last year, albeit I don't know if he'd ever repeat such a performance).

 

Hell I'm just puzzled as to what is going on in Chicago right now as I don't see any true direction with the moves and I can't see how Kenny would keep the team essentially the same (not after last years performance).

[29andPoplar]

It iwll be interesting to see what Williams does. Not many rumors out there involving the White Sox and they need a couple of OF's. Seems they want speed, contact hitters, and on base guys. Not too many players in baseball fit all three categories, as mentioned above Juan Pierre fits two but not three. Not many of the free agents are a perfect fit either.

 

It's right at Thanksgiving, this is usually the time Williams kicks into action. The most interesting comment he's made is he knows which teams the Sox match up with trade wise. This year more than ever though, any trades he makes should be judged in the overall picture, I believe there will be a domino effect as some moves may take much longer to consumate. I do not think we will have a clear picture of the 2008 team until late January.

[max power]

Why on earth would you pay $7.5M a year for Juan Pierre, when you can get the same OBP or better (Pierre is around .330 the last 3 seasons), same lack of power, same defense (maybe better) and same speed (and a better SB%) from Jerry Owens for $400k a year?

 

Makes zero sense. If its Pierre they want, stick with Owens, and save the extra $7M to spend on some sort of useful player or differential.

 

EDIT: Make that $8 to $10M a year, I just saw his contract details. Waste of money.

You can't know with any certainty that owens will do that. Its not a good enough reason to make the trade, but its a good enough reason to find a better option.

[Chisoxfn]

It iwll be interesting to see what Williams does. Not many rumors out there involving the White Sox and they need a couple of OF's. Seems they want speed, contact hitters, and on base guys. Not too many players in baseball fit all three categories, as mentioned above Juan Pierre fits two but not three. Not many of the free agents are a perfect fit either.

 

It's right at Thanksgiving, this is usually the time Williams kicks into action. The most interesting comment he's made is he knows which teams the Sox match up with trade wise. This year more than ever though, any trades he makes should be judged in the overall picture, I believe there will be a domino effect as some moves may take much longer to consumate. I do not think we will have a clear picture of the 2008 team until late January.

I get a sneaking suspicion we will see two major long time White Sox pieces gone by the start of 2008. I think one of them will be Paul Konerko.

[NorthSideSox72]

You can't know with any certainty that owens will do that. Its not a good enough reason to make the trade, but its a good enough reason to find a better option.

Oh I'm all for a better option. And Juan Pierre ain't it.

 

Owens managed a .324 OBP in his first year, a partial year. And that OBP went up every month. A .330+ OBP is probable, and I'd in fact bet he'll be significantly higher. But even if not, he is basically already comparable to Pierre, but costs less than a tenth as much. Is Pierre 10 times better than Owens?

 

On the list of people I'd like to see in OF for the Sox (out of the players available or being discussed here), Owens is not in the Top 5, or even the Top 10. But he is well above Juan Pierre.

 

[29andPoplar]

Hell I'm just puzzled as to what is going on in Chicago right now as I don't see any true direction with the moves and I can't see how Kenny would keep the team essentially the same (not after last years performance).

 

Yes and you're not the only one puzzled. The picture isn't clear at all. As I mentioned they've said they want better speed, better contact hitters, and better on base guys, adding them to the sluggers in the middle. That's all well and good but the question stands, where are those guys? Who has them and who is willing to part with them? Seems to me lots of teams are looking for the same thing.

 

Also it is fair to assume Williams will trade pitching but I also believe he will get pitching in return, possibly for some other assets. He likes to tweak the pitching staff every winter and this staff needs more than a tweak.

 

One thing for sure, and they have said it without actually saying it, the team needs a jolt of energy. Maybe that comes from a sparkplug player or two and I think you will see them try very hard to bring in guys who are known for having good at bats.

[29andPoplar]

I get a sneaking suspicion we will see two major long time White Sox pieces gone by the start of 2008. I think one of them will be Paul Konerko.

 

And you know what, that's ok with me. The LAA are an obvious destination but the White Sox and Angels never seem to get anything done on the trade front. Always rumors, nothing ever happens. But I think there are a number of teams who'd be quite interested in Paul Konerko, probably more than any of us believe.

[Chisoxfn]

Yes and you're not the only one puzzled. The picture isn't clear at all. As I mentioned they've said they want better speed, better contact hitters, and better on base guys, adding them to the sluggers in the middle. That's all well and good but the question stands, where are those guys? Who has them and who is willing to part with them? Seems to me lots of teams are looking for the same thing.

 

Also it is fair to assume Williams will trade pitching but I also believe he will get pitching in return, possibly for some other assets. He likes to tweak the pitching staff every winter and this staff needs more than a tweak.

 

One thing for sure, and they have said it without actually saying it, the team needs a jolt of energy. Maybe that comes from a sparkplug player or two and I think you will see them try very hard to bring in guys who are known for having good at bats.

I tend to think we will see Kenny make a FA signing and than go out and make a trade or two or three (Crede/Garland or Contreras/Konerko) and use those other pieces to get what he wants with the FA signing semi supplanting the loss of Konerko (I say semi supplanting because I know that Hunter and Rowand are not the run producers that Paulie are but they are both all around players and I think Kenny may realize the team needs more of those type of guys).

 

I do agree though that we will probably see certain moves precede other ones and I expect the rotation to be changed up with maybe two starters getting dealt but some other arms coming back here or there (I think if Jon gets dealt it won't be because they are guaranteeing Danks and Floyd/Gio a rotation spot but rather because they can get multiple pieces and will also find a way to get another starter back (whether thats a top notch prospect or a starter the Sox have identified that they like and can get).

 

I will be patient though but I must admit if nothing has happened by the time the winter meetings have passed I will be quite concerned especially since Kenny tends to like to get his first couple moves out of the way early as those are the ones that tend to lay the ground work for what will come.

[BearSox]

I all of a sudden really want Matt Kemp right now.

[Jeremy]

Owens managed a .324 OBP in his first year, a partial year. And that OBP went up every month. A .330+ OBP is probable, and I'd in fact bet he'll be significantly higher. But even if not, he is basically already comparable to Pierre, but costs less than a tenth as much. Is Pierre 10 times better than Owens?

 

On the list of people I'd like to see in OF for the Sox (out of the players available or being discussed here), Owens is not in the Top 5, or even the Top 10. But he is well above Juan Pierre.

 

I'd take Owens over Pierre too, but if we sign Hunter, I don't want a player remotely resembling either of them patrolling a corner spot. Hunter's most valuable attribute is how much power he hits for in CF and you'd be negating that if you played a light hitting CF type next to him. Fields or someone else with power should be playing LF next to Hunter and Dye. If that creates a problem because we lack a leadoff hitter then we should sign someone who can lead off instead of Hunter.

[Chisoxfn]

And you know what, that's ok with me. The LAA are an obvious destination but the White Sox and Angels never seem to get anything done on the trade front. Always rumors, nothing ever happens. But I think there are a number of teams who'd be quite interested in Paul Konerko, probably more than any of us believe.

His contract is an absolute steal and he is a leader. The question is obviously why would the Sox do this and to me the only way they could save face by trading Konerko is if they make a major impact signing along the lines of Hunter/Rowand/Jones and than use Paulie to get additional pieces that give the Sox a plethora of solid players to go around its rotation and the FA signing/Dye/Thome.

[29andPoplar]

His contract is an absolute steal and he is a leader. The question is obviously why would the Sox do this and to me the only way they could save face by trading Konerko is if they make a major impact signing along the lines of Hunter/Rowand/Jones and than use Paulie to get additional pieces that give the Sox a plethora of solid players to go around its rotation and the FA signing/Dye/Thome.

 

You nailed it on the head, and something like this is what I see happening. I also agree that if something big doesn't happen by the end of the winter meetings, it means some or most of KW's plans fell through. In fact I am a bit surprised some move hasn't happened already, be it large or small.

[RockRaines]

You look at Pierre's numbers and you wonder why was 2007 so dissappointing? Its pretty much right in line with his 2006. He's not ideal in any way, shape or form, but if the Dodgers want very little for him and will eat a lot of his contract, he's really not bad. I don't think many would have complained if KW signed him after 2006 to a contract that paid him $5 million a year or so. He plays everyday, and he actually can bunt. It would be my option E or F, but its really not that horrible of an idea, again depending on how much the Dodgers want to eat of the contract.

Jerry Owens for cheaper sounds better to me, at least then when they start to suck you wouldnt feel as bad benching Owens.

[Chisoxfn]

You nailed it on the head, and something like this is what I see happening. I also agree that if something big doesn't happen by the end of the winter meetings, it means some or most of KW's plans fell through. In fact I am a bit surprised some move hasn't happened already, be it large or small.

Crede for a bullpen arm or one of the outfield spots would make some sense and I think that will probably be the first piece to drop (unless of course they are able to get a hold of Rowand or Hunter and make something happen). Than I think Kenny will turn to the trade front and do the remainder of his stuff there. Possibly selling two players in Konerko and one starter but also likely adding other young players (maybe a young SS who he really likes but the club will also know they have Uribe there in case any of the young infielders at 3rd/SS/2b fail).

 

Hell if you could add a Rowand to the lineup and than move Konerko for a package around Kochman/Figgins/Santana (and i have no idea if the Angels would do such a package) than you would really have retooled your lineup with two moves. Trade Crede for a bullpen arm and you are in business (this doesn't even get into the Garland piece where the Sox could opt to move him for another starter that they like that they would have under there control).

 

In fact, on the basis just those two moves would give you a lineup of:

Figgings

Rowand

Thome

Dye

Kochman

Fields

AJP

Uribe

Richar

 

Rotation:

Vazquez

Buehrle

Garland

Contreras

Santana

 

Bullpen:

Jenks

MacDougall

Thornton

Logan

Wasserman

(Person you traded Crede for)

 

The only major holes would obviously be Uribe and Richar (Richar has some upside and Uribe when on is a premiere defensive shortstop). The Sox lineup would lack the power it once had but you still have a few guys that will hit 30 HRs (Crede/Thome) and guys with 20 Hr power (Fields/Uribe).

 

The rotation would have the possibilities of being stellar but it would also give Ken Williams the option to move Garland for other pieces (a shortstop like Furcal or a top shortstop prospect and top pitching prospect; think two top 5 organizational prospects). To me the main way the Sox can rebuild is by using Konerko (and I have no idea if the Angels would give up all that for Paulie but I could definitely see them considering it), a free agent signing and than the trades of Crede/Garland to do the rest (hell if they could move Contreras instead I'd have no problem giving Garland a fat contract because financially I think the team could afford it).

[Kalapse]

Jason, why do you have that awful, awful pitcher Ervin Santana in the rotation? And where is John Danks?

[Chisoxfn]

Jason, why do you have that awful, awful pitcher Ervin Santana in the rotation? And where is John Danks?

Danks pitched his way out of a rotation spot as far as I'm concerned (that is at least what I would tell him because I want him busting his ass off and I want him to show major strides next year). But I basically threw that up as the rotation until Garland/Contreras gets moved (and than Danks would slide in as the 5th starter but he would have to battle). As far as Santana goes, I think he has a great arm and good stuff and I can't see why the Sox wouldn't be able to buy on him low and turn him into a solid starter.

 

I love guys with good arms and low trade value and right now that would be Santana (than again I always wanted the club to get Juan Cruz and aside from a good season or two out of the pen he hasn't exactly panned out).

[max power]

Isn't danks exactly what you described? Good arm, low value right now? So you just throw someone else in there because he sucked on another team, not ours?

[bigruss]

Crede for a bullpen arm or one of the outfield spots would make some sense and I think that will probably be the first piece to drop (unless of course they are able to get a hold of Rowand or Hunter and make something happen). Than I think Kenny will turn to the trade front and do the remainder of his stuff there. Possibly selling two players in Konerko and one starter but also likely adding other young players (maybe a young SS who he really likes but the club will also know they have Uribe there in case any of the young infielders at 3rd/SS/2b fail).

 

Hell if you could add a Rowand to the lineup and than move Konerko for a package around Kochman/Figgins/Santana (and i have no idea if the Angels would do such a package) than you would really have retooled your lineup with two moves. Trade Crede for a bullpen arm and you are in business (this doesn't even get into the Garland piece where the Sox could opt to move him for another starter that they like that they would have under there control).

 

In fact, on the basis just those two moves would give you a lineup of:

Figgings

Rowand

Thome

Dye

Kochman

Fields

AJP

Uribe

Richar

 

Rotation:

Vazquez

Buehrle

Garland

Contreras

Santana

 

Bullpen:

Jenks

MacDougall

Thornton

Logan

Wasserman

(Person you traded Crede for)

 

The only major holes would obviously be Uribe and Richar (Richar has some upside and Uribe when on is a premiere defensive shortstop). The Sox lineup would lack the power it once had but you still have a few guys that will hit 30 HRs (Crede/Thome) and guys with 20 Hr power (Fields/Uribe).

 

The rotation would have the possibilities of being stellar but it would also give Ken Williams the option to move Garland for other pieces (a shortstop like Furcal or a top shortstop prospect and top pitching prospect; think two top 5 organizational prospects). To me the main way the Sox can rebuild is by using Konerko (and I have no idea if the Angels would give up all that for Paulie but I could definitely see them considering it), a free agent signing and than the trades of Crede/Garland to do the rest (hell if they could move Contreras instead I'd have no problem giving Garland a fat contract because financially I think the team could afford it).

 

I believe you meant Dye, but thats cool...anywho I love Paulie and would hate to see him be traded but it does seem like it would be best for the team in the return package. I still would like to see if the Sox can sign a bullpen piece, preferably cheap from Japan, to compete with MacD and see who wins the battle in spring training, and if Mac loses you can trade him for scraps but still have a quality guy there to replace him. I wouldnt mind trading Contreras just to get rid of contract, depending on what guys like Kris Benson are asking for, maybe jsut sign a rebounding vet like CLement to a one year deal and hope that Danks improves in AAA during the time and if that vet fails you got a lot of options at AAA

[Kalapse]

Santana's beautiful arm can pitch out of the pen until he learns how to get his road ERA under 8. At least Danks pitched well for pretty much the entire first half of the season (4.96 ERA over his first 21 starts), Santana is looking like a reclamation project at this point.