Cheater Bonds Indicted!

[SoxAce]

OHHHHHH NO

 

^^^^^^^^

 

This is HORRIBLE news. I see the Bonds Haters are up and at it again here..

[witesoxfan]

I'm just glad that we'll never have to hear "There's never been any solid evidence that Bonds used steroids."

 

Well now there is. A positive test is now public record.

 

You mean him saying that he used flaxseed oil that was actually steroids, but he didn't know about it, didn't do enough for you?

[southsider2k5]

I'm just glad that we'll never have to hear "There's never been any solid evidence that Bonds used steroids."

 

Well now there is. A positive test is now public record.

 

To me that is the most important part of all of this. Whether or not he can OJ his way out of a conviction doesn't matter to me as much as we now have positive steroid test results on record. We don't have to hear that Barry Bonds never failed a drug test again.

 

Hopefully baseball will really start to take the tough steps to rid the game of this crap.

[Steve9347]

For anyone who wants to argue that Bonds never tested positive, that's all over as shown in this article.

 

Bonds' positive test

[Steff]

To me that is the most important part of all of this. Whether or not he can OJ his way out of a conviction doesn't matter to me as much as we now have positive steroid test results on record. We don't have to hear that Barry Bonds never failed a drug test again.

 

Hopefully baseball will really start to take the tough steps to rid the game of this crap.

 

 

The positive test has been on record since 2000 via rumors and made public in 2003 via the grand jury leak.

[Dick Allen]

What's the big deal about a positive test? Its been known for years "the cream" was a steroid. Bonds has never said he didn't use the cream. The issue is whether Bonds knew what it was or not. He claims he didn't know. Maybe his trainer sings, but if they put him on the stand, Bonds' attorneys will shread him. It would seem Bonds wasn't all that truthful with the grand jury, but I really don't know how it will be proven unless they suddenly came up with some new evidence. I don't like Bonds, but its pretty plain to see the feds are out to get him. Couldn't the resources being used for all this be better spent?

[YASNY]

What's the big deal about a positive test? Its been known for years "the cream" was a steroid. Bonds has never said he didn't use the cream. The issue is whether Bonds knew what it was or not. He claims he didn't know. Maybe his trainer sings, but if they put him on the stand, Bonds' attorneys will shread him. It would seem Bonds wasn't all that truthful with the grand jury, but I really don't know how it will be proven unless they suddenly came up with some new evidence. I don't like Bonds, but its pretty plain to see the feds are out to get him. Couldn't the resources being used for all this be better spent?

 

The big deal is that now it is fact. It's not been leaked. It is on public record in a legal matter. He tested positive for performance enchancing drugs and that fact can no longer be denied.

[Steff]

The big deal is that now it is fact. It's not been leaked. It is on public record in a legal matter. He tested positive for performance enchancing drugs and that fact can no longer be denied.

 

 

It was leaked in 2003 when Fainaru-Wada and Williams began their investigation for Game of Shadows.

[YASNY]

It was leaked in 2003 when Fainaru-Wada and Williams began their investigation for Game of Shadows.

 

Let me rephrase. It now not based on a leak. It is now public record as a result of a legal matter and on the record in our justice system.

[Steff]

Let me rephrase. It now not based on a leak. It is now public record as a result of a legal matter and on the record in our justice system.

 

 

Game if Shadows is not based on a leak. They refrence the actual testimony seen with their own eyes from Bond's mouth regarding the positive test in Nov 2000. Tit for tat, but just because the Government didn't write GoS doesn't mean the "leak" wasn't fact at the time is was published. If somehow this indictment gives justification to the masses that "finally Barry DID do steriods"... that's odd to me. The "facts" have been all over the place. That is not the dispute. The dispute is if he KNOWINGLY knew he was using.

 

And I'm not sure I understand your statement above, but GJ testimony is a legal proceeding kept on record in our justice system.

[YASNY]

Game if Shadows is not based on a leak. They refrence the actual testimony seen with their own eyes from Bond's mouth regarding the positive test in Nov 2000. Tit for tat, but just because the Government didn't write GoS doesn't mean the "leak" wasn't fact at the time is was published. If somehow this indictment gives justification to the masses that "finally Barry DID do steriods"... that's odd to me. The "facts" have been all over the place. That is not the dispute. The dispute is if he KNOWINGLY knew he was using.

 

And I'm not sure I understand your statement above, but GJ testimony is a legal proceeding kept on record in our justice system.

 

OK, Steff. I yeild. My original point was that we wouldn't have to hear from anybody that there was never any real proof that Bonds had ever tested positive for steroids. Technically, you are 100% correct. Realistically, that proof was not accepted as proof by the Barryites.

Edited November 16, 2007 by YASNY

[Steff]

OK, Steff. I yeild. My original point was that we wouldn't have to hear from anybody that there was never any real proof that Bonds had ever tested positive for steroids. Technically, you are 100% correct. Realistically, that proof was not accepted as proof by the Barryites.

 

I would agree with that as I have heard it said.

 

 

Did you believe that? Your initial comment is a bit evasive. I am a Bonds fan, but there was no doubt to me that he rub-a-dub dubbed that cream all over as much as he could in a deceptive manner.

[jackie hayes]

What's the big deal about a positive test? Its been known for years "the cream" was a steroid. Bonds has never said he didn't use the cream. The issue is whether Bonds knew what it was or not. He claims he didn't know. Maybe his trainer sings, but if they put him on the stand, Bonds' attorneys will shread him. It would seem Bonds wasn't all that truthful with the grand jury, but I really don't know how it will be proven unless they suddenly came up with some new evidence. I don't like Bonds, but its pretty plain to see the feds are out to get him. Couldn't the resources being used for all this be better spent?

He claims he took nothing from Anderson before the 2002/2003 offseason. The test was dated November, 2000. So the 'Anderson duped me' defense is a nonstarter.

 

And again, Bonds is at least the second athlete charged with perjury in this investigation.

[YASNY]

I would agree with that as I have heard it said.

Did you believe that? Your initial comment is a bit evasive. I am a Bonds fan, but there was no doubt to me that he rub-a-dub dubbed that cream all over as much as he could in a deceptive manner.

 

Agreed. In my opinion, he knew. He had to know. Too much happens to body for him not to have known.

[WCSox]

Something seems to be missing in this discussion. Much of the indictment seems to be based on the timing. Bonds claims that he used nothing from Anderson prior to the 2002/2003 offseason. He wasn't saying merely, I didn't know what it was. He's saying, I didn't use ANYTHING he gave me before just now.

 

I don't necessarily want to see Barry do time or anything, but I want him convicted. Because IT'S SO FREAKING OBVIOUS that he perjured himself. It would make the Attorney General's office look incredibly inept if they weren't able to prove it in a court of law.

 

I'm also not convinced that Bonds is the only one being targeted. The Feds charged Tammy Thomas, a former Olympic cyclist, on similar charges. Hardly a household name.

 

Not to mention Marion Jones. And if Giambi had lied to that same grand jury, he'd be under indictment right now as well.

 

I REALLY hope that they're going after others in MLB, because Barry is just the tip of the iceberg. And I'd really hate this to become a "they're just trying to bring down Barry" thing.

 

[Steff]

I REALLY hope that they're going after others in MLB, because Barry is just the tip of the iceberg. And I'd really hate this to become a "they're just trying to bring down Barry" thing.

 

 

 

This I hope as well. Also, and I hope I am wrong, but sadly I give it a very small amount of time before this becomes a "you are picking on the black man" thing....

[YASNY]

This I hope as well. Also, and I hope I am wrong, but sadly I give it a very small amount of time before this becomes a "you are picking on the black man" thing....

 

Agreed again. I don't think the "picking on a black man" will get any traction, however. There are too many whites and hispanics in baseball using that will make that a moot point.

[Steff]

Agreed again. I don't think the "picking on a black man" will get any traction, however. There are too many whites and hispanics in baseball using that will make that a moot point.

 

 

But they don't have a lynch mob after them at this point...

 

Baseball and the G'ment needs to address ALL steriod users, and quickly. IMO, way too much attention has been placed on Bonds, and it's fairly obvious to see that it's because of his "attitude".

[YASNY]

But they don't have a lynch mob after them at this point...

 

Baseball and the G'ment needs to address ALL steriod users, and quickly. IMO, way too much attention has been placed on Bonds, and it's fairly obvious to see that it's because of his "attitude".

 

His attitude? Yes, definitely. But, if you are the prosecuter and you wanted to send a LOUD message about steroid use, wouldn't the all time home run king be the perfect foil for that? That would be a message that would be heard from MLB to high school kids. And really, the high school kids are the one that need to hear that message the most.

[Steff]

His attitude? Yes, definitely. But, if you are the prosecuter and you wanted to send a LOUD message about steroid use, wouldn't the all time home run king be the perfect foil for that? That would be a message that would be heard from MLB to high school kids. And really, the high school kids are the one that need to hear that message the most.

 

 

I completely agree with you. I just wish they had made more of an effort to go after others. Especially others who have tested positive as of late. Raffy would have been a good start.

[WCSox]

His attitude? Yes, definitely. But, if you are the prosecuter and you wanted to send a LOUD message about steroid use, wouldn't the all time home run king be the perfect foil for that? That would be a message that would be heard from MLB to high school kids. And really, the high school kids are the one that need to hear that message the most.

 

I agree with Steff to an extent, but it's also true that prosecutors will go after the most visible people that they can. I'm sure that there are people running larger and more odious dog-fighting rings, but that didn't stop them from spending a lot of time and money going after Michael Vick.

 

[Steff]

I agree with Steff...

 

 

 

The kiss of death....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jackie hayes]

I'm not quite sure what everyone expects the rest to be charged with. The SF Chron story stated that the following players were questioned: Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Bobby Estalella, Gary Sheffield, and Barry Bonds. Sheffield and Bonds were the only ones who denied knowingly using steroids. Bonds was charged because there are BALCO records that contradict his testimony. Sheffield probably did perjure himself, but his relationship to Bonds & Anderson seems to have been more informal and fleeting, so there probably isn't much documentation that can be used to charge him. So what should the others be charged with?

[Steff]

I'm not quite sure what everyone expects the rest to be charged with. The SF Chron story stated that the following players were questioned: Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Armando Rios, Benito Santiago, Bobby Estalella, Gary Sheffield, and Barry Bonds. Sheffield and Bonds were the only ones who denied knowingly using steroids. Bonds was charged because there are BALCO records that contradict his testimony. Sheffield probably did perjure himself, but his relationship to Bonds & Anderson seems to have been more informal and fleeting, so there probably isn't much documentation that can be used to charge him. So what should the others be charged with?

 

 

Use of an illegal substance? And I'm not even specifically referring to the BALCO bunch. Raffy wasn't part of that crew. And neither are any of the others that have tested positive in the past 4 years.

[WCSox]

The kiss of death....