Man shoots burglars while on phone with cops

[Buehrle>Wood]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/e/5303222.html

 

 

Wow, I don't know what to say. They were robbing his neighbors house and he killed them. " This clearly is going to stretch the limits of the self-defense law." Indeed.

[NorthSideSox72]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/e/5303222.html

Wow, I don't know what to say. They were robbing his neighbors house and he killed them. " This clearly is going to stretch the limits of the self-defense law." Indeed.

I'm thinking he might have a hard time arguing self-defense, when he went chasing people in someone else's yard and shot them as the fled.

 

He's going to jail, I think.

 

[juddling]

From the story..

 

If the absent homeowner tells police that he asked his neighbor to watch over his property, that could play in his favor, LaFon said.

 

"If the homeowner comes out and says, 'My neighbor had a greater right of possession than the people trying to break in,' that could put him (the gunman) in an ownership role," LaFon said.

 

The Texas Penal Code says a person can use force or deadly force to defend someone else's property if he reasonably believes he has a legal duty to do so or the property owner had requested his protection.

 

 

If i was that neighbor, i'd be telling the police "Sure i asked him to keep an eye on the place". even if I didn't.

 

 

[Texsox]

I'm shocked this is in Texas. But it will stop people from breaking into houses. Swift justice and all.

[mreye]

I'm shocked this is in Texas. But it will stop people from breaking into houses. Swift justice and all.

 

The 7 minutes he was on the phone waiting for the police to show up worked real well too, huh?

 

[Brian]

The guy called 911 again and got the same dispatcher? That is a small town.

[NorthSideSox72]

The guy called 911 again and got the same dispatcher? That is a small town.

The dispatch computer system probably auto-routed the call based on an open call for service, if they have a computerized dispatch system.

 

Or its a small town.

 

[G&T]

From the story..

 

If the absent homeowner tells police that he asked his neighbor to watch over his property, that could play in his favor, LaFon said.

 

"If the homeowner comes out and says, 'My neighbor had a greater right of possession than the people trying to break in,' that could put him (the gunman) in an ownership role," LaFon said.

 

The Texas Penal Code says a person can use force or deadly force to defend someone else's property if he reasonably believes he has a legal duty to do so or the property owner had requested his protection.

If i was that neighbor, i'd be telling the police "Sure i asked him to keep an eye on the place". even if I didn't.

 

Even in Texas there needs to be some necessity for deadly force. Yes, the law there is looser than most states, but the shooter was not in his neighbor's house. If he was inside the house, then, yes, he might use deadly force

In reality he had no need for self defense. He had safe haven in his home, he called the police, and the robbers were not coming at him or his home. And they were not walking onto his property. I can't believe this would be self defense, even in Texas.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect their own property to stop an arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night, or to prevent someone committing such a crime at night from escaping with the property.

 

But the person using deadly force must believe there is no other way to protect their belongings and must suspect that taking less drastic measures could expose themselves or others to serious danger.

Edited November 16, 2007 by G&T

[Texsox]

I'm not certain why we're discussing self defense, Texas Law allows you to defend your property. That's why our crime rate is so much lower. Break into the home and you could get shot. I'm certain after these guys were killed, no one will be breaking into homes in Texas. The death penalty was served.

[EvilMonkey]

I'm not certain why we're discussing self defense, Texas Law allows you to defend your property. That's why our crime rate is so much lower. Break into the home and you could get shot. I'm certain after these guys were killed, no one will be breaking into homes in Texas. The death penalty was served.

Is it a deterant only if it deters EVERYBODY? If this shooting stops 50 people from committing similar, or worse, acts, was it a deterant? The death penalty at least deters one, but we don't quite know how many others are swayed by the fact they could die by committing certain acts in Texas.

[Texsox]

Is it a deterant only if it deters EVERYBODY? If this shooting stops 50 people from committing similar, or worse, acts, was it a deterant? The death penalty at least deters one, but we don't quite know how many others are swayed by the fact they could die by committing certain acts in Texas.

 

We'll see if there is a statistically significant drop in burglaries in Texas for 2008.

[BearSox]

It turns out both men Horn shot and killed were illegal immigrants and have previously been arrested for drug related charges and such. If Houston wasn't whacky as hell, neither of these men would have died, even though the earth is probably better off without scum like them.

[santo=dorf]

It turns out both men Horn shot and killed were illegal immigrants and have previously been arrested for drug related charges and such. If Houston wasn't whacky as hell, neither of these men would have died, even though the earth is probably better off without scum like them.

Hey that's nice, but this vigilante should still be prosecuted for murder charges.

[StrangeSox]

Hey that's nice, but this vigilante should still be prosecuted for murder charges.

 

 

That's my stance. I've no sympathy for the thieves, but I don't believe in vigilanteism (is that a word?) either.

[BearSox]

Hey that's nice, but this vigilante should still be prosecuted for murder charges.

No he shouldn't. Being a vigilante was not his not his intent, he thought it was justified. Do I think he should have blown them away, no. But he shouldn't be prosecuted, especially when you have nutjob judges letting obvious molesters, rapists, and other type of low breakers getting away scott free.

[santo=dorf]

No he shouldn't. Being a vigilante was not his not his intent, he thought it was justified. Do I think he should have blown them away, no. But he shouldn't be prosecuted, especially when you have nutjob judges letting obvious molesters, rapists, and other type of low breakers getting away scott free.

Burglary is not justified with capital punishment. He made a mistake as he broke the law killing two human beings who happened to be crooks. We have a legal system for a reason. People are not, and should not be allowed to be their own judge, jury and executioner. He is a killer who risked his own life with the criminals and unmarked police officers.

[WilliamTell]

This is going to be interesting to see what the ruling is in this case.

[BearSox]

Yeah, lets sentence a 61 year old to prison for life, even if he isn't a menace to society. What he did wasn't right, but he doesn't belong to be in jail for the rest of his life, which he would get if convicted. A couple years of probation, and go from there. It's not like he goes around killing bad guys, this was his first incident.

[santo=dorf]

Yeah, lets sentence a 61 year old to prison for life, even if he isn't a menace to society. What he did wasn't right, but he doesn't belong to be in jail for the rest of his life, which he would get if convicted. A couple years of probation, and go from there. It's not like he goes around killing bad guys, this was his first incident.

There's a pretty nice 51 year old I know, unfortunately he made the mistake of drinking too much and driving. He blew barely over the limit, but because of his "mistake," the bumbling wino he hit with his car is now dead. If he is convicted, under current laws he will have to got to prison for I believe a minimum of 5 years.

 

I bet you want to give him a slap on the wrist as well. Of course the guy I know didn't mean to harm the guy compared to this guy who knew he wanted to shoot and harm them (don't know he was trying to kill them.)

 

Limits must be set and laws are written. Send both the killers to prison.

[southsideirish71]

Yeah, lets sentence a 61 year old to prison for life, even if he isn't a menace to society. What he did wasn't right, but he doesn't belong to be in jail for the rest of his life, which he would get if convicted. A couple years of probation, and go from there. It's not like he goes around killing bad guys, this was his first incident.

 

This guy is a criminal. Lets look at the facts. He wasn't in mortal danger, neither was his neighbors. He calmly and clearly spoke on the phone showing that he knew exactly what he was doing. He boasted about loading his weapon and ignored the advise of the police on the phone. Not only that he shot unarmed people in the back. If this was a police officer instead of Mr. Horn they would be in a lot of trouble. If a person breaks into your house, and you are in fear of your life sure use deadly force. But chasing them, when you are not in danger, is not acceptable. Joe Horn decided to play Dirty Harry. And for the people who say, well this will deter them. Remember that criminals read the paper too, if they believe that they may be involved with some goof with a gun they might bring a gun themselves. Burglars choose homes that are empty, that have the path of least resistance. They try to avoid houses with people for obvious reasons. I am as conservative as you can get, but this doesnt pass the smell test.

 

 

The 911 operator told him to say inside the shouse, warning him he was going to get himself shot if he went outside.

 

"You want to make a bet?" Joe Horn told the operator. "I'm going to kill them."

 

Here is the 9-11 call in its entirety. How many times is the man told not to go outside. How many times is the guy warned off. He admits that he doesn't really know that neighbor in the call as well. So its not like this is a friend of the family or long lost friend that he is protecting their property. He argues with the dispatcher over his ability to go out and shoot them. This guy is a criminal and I hope he goes to jail.

 

Brave Neighbor Kills 2 Robbers 911 Call - Watch more free videos

Edited December 8, 2007 by southsideirish71

[StrangeSox]

No he shouldn't. Being a vigilante was not his not his intent, he thought it was justified. Do I think he should have blown them away, no. But he shouldn't be prosecuted, especially when you have nutjob judges letting obvious molesters, rapists, and other type of low breakers getting away scott free.

 

That doesn't matter. If it wasn't justified, it wasn't justified, no matter what he thought.

[EvilMonkey]

I guess his only mistake was in calling the cops to begin with. He shoulda just taken care of business and went back home. Or learned from all the bad cop shows and have a 'plant' ready, just in case he was seen.

[BearSox]

There's a pretty nice 51 year old I know, unfortunately he made the mistake of drinking too much and driving. He blew barely over the limit, but because of his "mistake," the bumbling wino he hit with his car is now dead. If he is convicted, under current laws he will have to got to prison for I believe a minimum of 5 years.

 

I bet you want to give him a slap on the wrist as well. Of course the guy I know didn't mean to harm the guy compared to this guy who knew he wanted to shoot and harm them (don't know he was trying to kill them.)

 

Limits must be set and laws are written. Send both the killers to prison.

Drunk driving is clearly compareable to protecting your or your neighbors property (which by the way is a right of a citizen)...

 

For f***'s sake, are you actually comparing this to a drunk driver? Give me a f***ing break. If you are gonna make an analogy, make a good one at least.

[santo=dorf]

Drunk driving is clearly compareable to protecting your or your neighbors property (which by the way is a right of a citizen)...

 

For f***'s sake, are you actually comparing this to a drunk driver? Give me a f***ing break. If you are gonna make an analogy, make a good one at least.

Keep defending a murderer. I see SSI71 posted a link where he was quoted as getting ready to kill them. Send his ass to the chair.

 

This guy is worse than a drunk driver. He had the balls to tell an operator he was going to shoot to kill, was instructed to stay in his house, and he didn't listen. HE BROKE THE LAW. BOTH THOSE GUYS ARE MORONS WHO BROKE THE LAW. There's no analogy to it.

[G&T]

"Update"

 

The article is a couple weeks old, but you can see what the lawyer is saying.