Jon Garland traded for Orlando Cabrera

[Balta1701]

wouldnt Rowand be a nice #2 too???

Last year's Rowand? Sure.

 

The .325 OBP Rowand we kept seeing in years like 05? Not exactly.

[sircaffey]

If Uribe ends up at 3B, somehow...I will boycott the Sox until KW is fired.

[beck72]

Wait, what? Wasn't Iguchi like the ideal #2 hitter?

Iguchi was a guy they fit into the #2 spot. Iguchi himself said [and Ozzie] he wasn't used to that role of giving up AB's hitting to the opposite filed, bunting, taking pitches, etc. He was always a power guy in Japan.

[NorthSideSox72]

On the Score, just heard KW saying we got Cabrera with the intent of signing him long-term.

Makes sense. No one (Miranda, Silverio, others) would be ready before 2010 at the very earliest. As long as its not more than a 3 or 4 year-ish deal.

 

[Kalapse]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garlajo01.shtml

 

I know some people don't love stats, but FWIW, he has a Career ERA+ 106, 100 being the average, and I believe that stat is adjusted for ballparks and other factors. So Sabermetric followers would put him at slightly above average over his career.

 

And on the flipside, Cabrera batting wise OPB+ is 85 career, 95 last year, which is below average. That does not take into account fielding.

 

We'll see, it's November 19, if this is the only move KW makes I won't be thrilled, but he has time.

Sorry, I forgot my qualifier (I tend to do that) he's a "slightly above average" starting pitcher. That strong September seriously boosted Garland's ERA+ too, the last time I checked his stats (probably late August) his career ERA+ was around 103.

 

I like Jon, he's an incredibly valuable starter who's about to make $14-$16M a year and has a seemingly unrepairable knot in his shoulder. He will be missed.

[SoxFan562004]

If Uribe ends up at 3B, somehow...I will boycott the Sox until KW is fired.

is that being tossed around?

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Look what he turned down for him last year. And, 4 months ago he turned down Renteria AND a pitching prospect.

 

 

[fathom]

If Uribe ends up at 3B, somehow...I will boycott the Sox until KW is fired.

 

The only way he ends up at 3rd base is if we trade Fields in package for Miguel Cabrera. If not, Fields will be our 3rd baseman.

[sircaffey]

Iguchi was a guy they fit into the #2 spot. Iguchi himself said [and Ozzie] he wasn't used to that role of giving up AB's hitting to the opposite filed, bunting, taking pitches, etc. He was always a power guy in Japan.

 

But still, Gooch was damn good in the 2 spot.

[caulfield12]

Fernandez won a World series championships with Florida. Wells did not HAVE to go - he several very good seasons afterward, even pitching the Yankees & Red sox to the playoffs. He won 19 games for the 2003 Yankees. Colon has led the Angels to the playoffs several times as well, and won the Cy Young.

 

Long contracts are acceptable if players have won titles, cy youngs, or reached the playoffs. Then it's worth whatever you pay the guy for the seasons he's not so good.

 

Also, what about Foulke and the others?

 

Not re-signing pitching is a MISTAKE. To second guess this is bad baseball.

 

 

Not making the RIGHT pitching signings, that's BAD baseball. Contreras is a good case in point. He has some time to get back on track, but we're stuck with that contract for two more years, right?

 

Wells NEVER wanted to stay in Chicago, and the White Sox would have been insane to keep him under those circumstances, coming into 2002. He was never going to be happy.

 

Jeff Weaver won a title. Should we now give him $7.5 million to be our fifth starter?

[CWSGuy406]

The only way he ends up at 3rd base is if we trade Fields in package for Miguel Cabrera. If not, Fields will be our 3rd baseman.

 

Funny that you bring that up. I just saw a quote from Kenny, something like... wait, here it is...

 

"We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said.

 

Pun intended?

[Dick Allen]

I'm sorry, but USS Mariner greatly undersells Garland. Garland should be easily replaceable? Really? Can they count for me how many pitchers, over the past three seasons, have pitched 600+ innings of an ERA+ of 110 or better?

 

I agree with some of their points. The Angels seem to strengthen their greatest strength, but, on the other hand, (a)Aybar isn't very good and ( B ) they lose defense with whoever they go with (Izturis, probably?).

 

Garland is an extremely valuable pitcher to have, and we'll miss him dearly. There's not a chance in hell that Gavin Floyd or John Danks or Jack Egbert or Gio Gonzalez replicates Garland's 2007

That's where Garland's value lies. His overall numbers aren't really all that impressive but you can put him down for 200 innings of a little better than average pitching. If his replacement gives you 140-150 innings, a bullpen that has really struggled is going to be taxed with more work. It is a scary thought. I hope KW picks someone off the scrap heap that can bounce back.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Dick Allen

[sircaffey]

The only way he ends up at 3rd base is if we trade Fields in package for Miguel Cabrera. If not, Fields will be our 3rd baseman.

 

Ideally, that would be the only way. This is Kenny Williams though.

[NorthSideSox72]

Funny that you bring that up. I just saw a quote from Kenny, something like... wait, here it is...

 

"We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said.

 

Pun intended?

[chisox2334]

kenny confrence call on whitesox.com site

[Vance Law]

If Uribe ends up at 3B, somehow...I will boycott the Sox until KW is fired.

 

I don't think they should put Uribe in the starting rotation either, even though there's a spot open with Garland now gone.

[beck72]

Funny that you bring that up. I just saw a quote from Kenny, something like... wait, here it is...

 

"We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said.

 

Pun intended?

Would a "Ray" qualify, such as Crawford? I don't want Miguel Cabrera. But what this does seem to imply is another trade on the horizon.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Kenny better concentrate on adding some serious pitching. I read in the Sox mailbag where Merkin writes that the 2008 bullpen might be very similar to last year's. Forget the season then especially with this starting staff.

[Kalapse]

Funny that you bring that up. I just saw a quote from Kenny, something like... wait, here it is...

 

"We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said.

 

Pun intended?

That is probably the single greatest Kenny Williams quote I have ever read. THAT is how you use a pun.

[fathom]

Would a "Ray" qualify, such as Crawford? I don't want Miguel Cabrera. But what this does seem to imply is another trade on the horizon.

 

How can you not want Miguel Cabrera? The only person who should not want him is the owner of an all-you-can-eat buffet.

[Vance Law]

kenny confrence call on whitesox.com site

how? when? how?

[chisox2334]

juan uribe will be gone by spring

[Kalapse]

How can you not want Miguel Cabrera? The only person who should not want him is the owner of an all-you-can-eat buffet.

He's an all or nothing base clogger. DUH The Sox don't need anymore of those, they need more speedy/bunty/bearded/grindy guys.

[beck72]

But still, Gooch was damn good in the 2 spot.

If he was that good, the sox would have kept him and signed to a 3 yr deal.

[caulfield12]

Ideally, that would be the only way. This is Kenny Williams though.

 

 

In 2005, every move KW made turned out to be Gold.

 

I remember his constant fiddling period from 01 through 04, and there were lots of head-scratching moves like this one.

 

The fact of the matter, even if we had say, Chris Young or Aaron Rowand on the 2006-07 White Sox, the same end result would have occured. What moves has KW made that kept us from winning? Please, don't tell me about the reported Astros/Garland trade.

 

The downfall of this club was the deterioration of Garcia and Contreras, along with the implosion of the bullpen and the aging of the offense. Almost like a perfect storm turning against the club, after the way everything meshed so perfectly in 2005 and the first half of 06.