Jon Garland traded for Orlando Cabrera

[sircaffey]

If he was that good, the sox would have kept him and signed to a 3 yr deal.

 

2005 and 2006 he was a very good 2 hitter. He dropped off last season. You said we haven't seen a good 2 hitter for years. Orlando isn't going to give us anything better than Iguchi did in '05 and '06.

[Kalapse]

2005 and 2006 he was a very good 2 hitter. He dropped off last season. You said we haven't seen a good 2 hitter for years. Orlando isn't going to give us anything better than Iguchi did in '05 and '06.

Cabrera does do one thing much better than Iguchi and that's making contact and avoiding strikeouts. He strikes out about half as much as Iguchi which is one thing you really like from a 2 hole hitter.

[beck72]

Arn Tellem AKA the agent of Frank Thomas Ben Wallace and Tracy McGrady (The Reinsdorf connection is strong). Tellem is an absolute beast, he tends to get top dollar for his clients (Jason Giambi, Hideki Matsui, Jermaine O'neal, Antawn Jamison.)

The two years he'll be a FA will be right around the time Dye and Thome hang it up. And PK will be looking to DH. His bat might be worth the contract he'll get.

[witesoxfan]

So, just really curious in all of this...what is really the point of this for either team? The White Sox get a 2nd shortstop, the Angels lose their only real good shortstop, the Sox lose a good starting pitcher and the Angels strengthen a strength...?

 

I really don't think anybody should be surprised by the value returned; it's just the actual return that is brought back that weirds me out.

 

Something's up, but OCab is here for sure.

[Vance Law]

If the sox are going to stick with Fields at 3b and Richar at 2b, having Uribe around to play both and SS [and allows the sox to say goodbye to cintron] makes the $4.5 mill. look manageable.

 

Uribe would be more valuable to the sox in his utility role than any scrub he could net in a trade.

 

The salary saved by trading him is worth more than his value on the field. Richar is a better hitter. A platoon with Richar and Bourgeois is even better. Any Uribe superiority in defense at 2nd doesn't make up the difference, plus the asset of his arm is basically wasted there.

[sircaffey]

Cabrera does do one thing much better than Iguchi and that's making contact and avoiding strikeouts. He strikes out about half as much as Iguchi which is one thing you really like from a 2 hole hitter.

 

Agreed, but overall, I don't see Cabrera being any better than Iguchi was in '05 and '06.

[caulfield12]

The reason this pisses me off so much is because the White Sox ONCE AGAIN have traded a player ONE YEAR TOO late.

 

We could have had Tavares, T.Bucholz, and Jason Hirsch from Houston last year for Garland. I am not saying Bucholz or Hirsch will become studds, but they have solid arms and were young. Tavares could have filled our need at leadoff/CF. Obviously, Garland's value was higher not going into a contract year, BUT THATS WHEN YOU FRIGGING trade guys, WHEN THEIR VALUE is high.

 

Now, his value is down some as he is heading into a contract year after not pitching well in the 2nd half. So we're left adding an aging (though talented) player ALSO in a contract year. We gave up PITCHING for this?

 

Williams tried to deal Jose Contreras last year...yea, during a span where he COULD NOT get ANYONE out. Jose C? A 57 year old Cuban that can't get outs is worth how much?

 

Joe Crede? As much as I love JC, the Angels wanted him last year...WANTED HIM and I heard rumors that we would get either Lackey or Escobar and or a couple top prospects for him....this was the time to move on Crede. NOW? Crede (and agent Scott Bora$$) are now heading into A (you guessed it) contract year, COMING OFF major back surgery...and what is Ken Williams doing now? SHOPPING JOE CREDE. You needed to deal him (and Garland and Jose) LAST YEAR when you could actually GET SOMETHING FOR HIM. Shopping a broken down player in a contract year with the most obstinate agent in the game won't get you jack crap. Another nice job by Williams.

 

HE pulled this same s*** with Buehrle...shopping him around in the mid-season and no one wanted to give up the farm for a two month rental. He held face on this one when Buehrle took about 15mill less to stay with the White Sox.

 

Then there was Dye...an aging, injury proned outfielder had a MONSTER year in 2006. He comes up in 2007 and during a contract year WIlliams SHOPS HIM...Boston was willing to toss a couple mid-range prospects at us, but nothing more considering Dye was a TWO MONTH RENTAL.

 

You could have probably gotten some real decent talent for Dye AFTER 2006, not during a broken down 2007. Williams got lucky, DAMN LUCKY to win the World Series in 2005...he stumbled into that one. He's now driving this franchise right into a fooking iceberg.

 

Have you ever seen a GM capable of trading Dye in 06, Thome in 06, Konerko in his prime, Crede before the back problems?

 

Well, if ANYONE can do that, they should be playing the stock market, they'd be making a lot more money than an MLB GM.

 

Please give me some recent examples of teams and GM's that have been so prescient enough to do this?

 

Were you out there saying that we should trade Joe Crede before 06, because his value never would have been higher than at that point. Or that we should have maxxed out the value of Cotts and Politte then, coming off those seasons? Or that Takatsu should have been traded heading in the 05 season?

 

By your logic, we should also trade Konerko, Vazquez, Buehrle, Fields and Jenks right now?

 

Yes?

 

The problem is not the moves he's made...the problem is that he's HAD NO CHOICE But to make these moves because of the farm system's breakdown. If we want to place the blame anywhere, that's the problem, and it's a KW/Shaffer and the entire front office one to be accountable for.

 

If we had actually developed a non-steroids using SS and Brian Anderson became a legitimate major leaguer, we'd not be in this mess. If Sweeney's power matured, there would be no need to re-sign Dye.

 

And despite all the hype around Gio, DeLosSantos, Russell, Egbert, Phillips, Broadway, we still haven't produced a big league starter for seemingly five years, from our own system, with the exception of Brandon McCarthy.

[RockRaines]

The salary saved by trading him is worth more than his value on the field. Richar is a better hitter. A platoon with Richar and Bourgeois is even better. Any Uribe superiority in defense at 2nd doesn't make up the difference, plus the asset of his arm is basically wasted there.

Richar has tremendous range and upside. I would like that platoon as Bourgie hits for contact and OBP and Richar has power potential and speed.

[beck72]

2005 and 2006 he was a very good 2 hitter. He dropped off last season. You said we haven't seen a good 2 hitter for years. Orlando isn't going to give us anything better than Iguchi did in '05 and '06.

Iguchi wasn't a true #2 hitter. I said the sox hadn't had a true #2 hitter for years--the kind who hits and runs, takes pitches to allow the leadoff man to steal bases, works pitchers, makes contact, hit behind runners, has speed. Iguchi said it himself and Ozzie said it that he wasn't a true #2 hitter. He did OK in that role that the sox forced him into because they had no one else. Yet if Iguchi was the answer to the sox #2 hitter and at 2b, they would have brought him back. That wasn't the case.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

This is terrible news.

[caulfield12]

So, just really curious in all of this...what is really the point of this for either team? The White Sox get a 2nd shortstop, the Angels lose their only real good shortstop, the Sox lose a good starting pitcher and the Angels strengthen a strength...?

 

I really don't think anybody should be surprised by the value returned; it's just the actual return that is brought back that weirds me out.

 

Something's up, but OCab is here for sure.

 

 

They felt they had to open the spot for Aybar and/or Wood.

 

The thing that's funny is that the Angels STILL haven't addressed their offensive problems (the lack of one more middle of the order power hitter)...not having another big bat like Konerko in that line-up has been enough to cancel that strong starting pitching, lockdown bullpen and multi-faceted offensive attack in the post-season.

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

They felt they had to open the spot for Aybar and/or Wood.

 

The thing that's funny is that the Angels STILL haven't addressed their offensive problems (the lack of one more middle of the order power hitter)...not having another big bat like Konerko in that line-up has been enough to cancel that strong starting pitching, lockdown bullpen and multi-faceted offensive attack in the post-season.

And...I'd say this move makes it less likely that they'll do that this offseason by going after the last remaining bat; the other Cabrera, because now they really can't afford to move Wood for MCabrera since they've created a hole at SS.

[kwolf68]

They felt they had to open the spot for Aybar and/or Wood.

 

The thing that's funny is that the Angels STILL haven't addressed their offensive problems (the lack of one more middle of the order power hitter)...not having another big bat like Konerko in that line-up has been enough to cancel that strong starting pitching, lockdown bullpen and multi-faceted offensive attack in the post-season.

 

 

You don't think adding MORE starting pitching will allow them to address those offensive problems? They added DEPTH at the most IMPORTANT position in the game and only had to give up a 33 year old player going into a contract year to do it.

 

Don't be shocked if they make a subsequent deal within days + to get Garland they didn't have to unload a single prospect, average or otherwise, from their already loaded farm system.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Uribe's career OPS is only two points lower than OCab's..................

[TimTebow15]

How many of you think this is a part of a bigger deal? There are some good parts to this deal. It frees up $3M, (for Torii) improves team speed, contact hitting, and defense. It also makes the bench better, along with giving us a #2 hitter. I like this guy. He doesn't get much pub b/c he has always play on either the west coast or in Montreal (except for a few months in BOS). He is a HUGE upgrade over Uribe. Don't forget, Garland isn't Johan Santana. He has yet to give anyone 2 good halves of a season. Such as last year, when he was good in the 1st and bad in the second and vice versa in 2006. Even in 2005, his 2nd half wasn't terrific. I'm sure KW didn't WANT to deal him, but do any of you think Contreras was really an option here?

 

 

 

 

ps I hope this is a part of a larger deal, because right now our staff SUCKS!!!!!!

[daa84]

KW definitely said this is a carlos lee type deal, and that every move is a prelude to another that we will make...that was in response specifically to a question about the money, so we are doing something soon

[kwolf68]

Look what he turned down for him last year. And, 4 months ago he turned down Renteria AND a pitching prospect.

 

 

Last year he turned down Garland for 3 players...this year he turned down Renteria + prospect and now he goes for this.

 

I know some in here think Williams is the deity for 'winning it all in 2005', but the guy appears hapless to me. He doesn't seem to know WHEN to deal players and always tries to trade away players after they've been exposed, aged too much, become injured, or are on the cusp of a contract year. This is remedial s*** Williams is missing now.

[bmags]

I give up. Jon Garland for a 33 year old waste of space. good lord we suck.

[Kalapse]

Uribe's career OPS is only two points lower than OCab's..................

And over the past 2 seasons it's only a 52 point difference as well as a difference of 45 SB and a defensive upgrade.

[NCsoxfan]

So do you guys think he is kicking himself for not making the Renteria deal? Does this mean that other plans have fallen through, causing him to revisit dealing Garland?

[kwolf68]

 

Williams used to have a mantra that said he wasn't trading pitching without getting it in return.

 

I understand people sometimes should liberalize their views somewhat, but we go from that to trading pitching for an aging player heading into contract year?

 

Truth be told, the Angels probably trading Cabrera at the EXACT right moment. He's coming off a good year and is heading toward that age where one's shelf-life becomes a question.

 

The ONLY thing good about this is it means Uribe won't play SS anymore.

 

[chiguy79]

 

A coworker told me of this and I thought for sure a prospect or reliever would be included.

 

I will hold judgement until Part B of the deal works itself out but if it doesn't I am having deja vu to last year when I heard we resigned Pods (similar to resigning Uribe) thinking it was just so he would be signed and tradeable, that didn't work out too well.

 

Lets just hope something to unload Uribe/Cintron (or hopefully both) is going down soon.

[Vance Law]

The Score also says that KW says he will try to trade Uribe.

[southsider2k5]

Real GM seems to think it is the Angels who are looking at making a high impact trade for maybe Cabrera...

 

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_fromtheu...ox_for_garland/

 

In a win-win deal, White Sox GM Ken Williams was able to turn a 4.41 career ERA starting pitcher into one of the best all-around shortstops in all of baseball on Monday when he dealt Jon Garland to the Angels for Orlando Cabrera and cash. But what is perplexing is that the White Sox just re-signed Juan Uribe to a one-year, $4.5 million contract. He is now very expendable and the November 8th signing could end up looking like an old fashioned NBA sign-and-trade.

 

The White Sox might have won the 2005 World Series behind the strength of their starting pitching, but in 2007, they were dead last in runs scored in the AL with 693.

 

Cabrera, who is already 33-years-old, is in the middle of the shortstop pack as a hitter (.292/.340/.400 over the last two seasons), but is a very sure-handed defensive player and is coming off what was probably his finest season in his 11-year career. In 2007, Cabrera had a line of .301/.345/.397 and was responsible for 11% of the Angels’ runs scored, second only to Vladimir Guerrero’s 13%.

 

He was productive in key situations, posting an .891 OPS with two outs and runners in scoring positions.

 

Cabrera also won his second Gold Glove in 2007, posting a .983 fielding percentage while manning a more steady than spectacular shortstop.

 

He is entering the final year of his deal and will make $9 million.

 

Grade for White Sox: B

 

This was the first move executed by new Angels’ GM Tony Reagins and the addition of the 28-year-old Garland appears to be a precursor to a larger move (i.e. Miguel Cabrera). The Angels already had a very deep rotation with John Lackey, Jered Weaver, Kelvim Escobar, Ervin Santana and Joe Saunders. One of those young pitchers will almost surely be traded as the Angels make a move for an impact bat.

 

Cabrera was also expendable because of the presence of Erick Aybar and Brandon Wood (who has been converted to a third baseman). One of these two players would surely be included in a Miguel Cabrera trade.

 

Garland has been a steady innings-eater starter, with just one season (2005) that would make him amongst the top pitchers in the game. In that season, when he was 6th in Cy Young voting, Garland had a 3.50 ERA and a 1.172 WHIP.

 

He has averaged 207 innings over the past six seasons while walking 2.74 batters per nine innings.

 

Garland has an excellent October record, giving up just four earned runs over 16 innings in his two postseason starts in 2005. The Angels witnessed this first hand in Game 3 at Angel Stadium when he threw a four-hit shutout with his only two runs allowed coming, ironically enough, on a two-run Orlando Cabrera homerun in the bottom of the sixth inning.

 

Playoffs excluded, Garland has a 4.94 career ERA at Angel Stadium over 47.1 innings, but he has a 3.60 ERA at Safeco and a 3.86 ERA at the Oakland Coliseum.

 

Grade for Angels: A- (if they acquire Miguel Cabrera)

[RockRaines]

I give up. Jon Garland for a 33 year old waste of space. good lord we suck.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves there. Hes a top defensive SS.