Jon Garland traded for Orlando Cabrera

[RockRaines]

I have a question... why sign Uribe for 5 million, and then trade for a SS? Okay, lots of people were expecting to see Garland traded, but our biggest need right now on offense is a leadoff hitter! This tells me that KW and Ozzie are now planning on having Jerry Owens start in CF and leadoff...

And the signing of Uribe told you that he would be our starting SS, that should show you how accurate your feelings are.

[Balta1701]

I have a question... why sign Uribe for 5 million, and then trade for a SS? Okay, lots of people were expecting to see Garland traded, but our biggest need right now on offense is a leadoff hitter! This tells me that KW and Ozzie are now planning on having Jerry Owens start in CF and leadoff...

I disagree. By far our biggest need was a #2 hitter. Last year, Owens was at least tolerable to my eyes, and if he could somehow put up a .350 OBP with his speed, which really isn't that big of a challenge for him, then we'd be at least ok on that spot.

 

On the other hand, we had Josh Fields hitting #2 for a month pretty much by default because we had no one else, which is horrible because of his strikeouts. This deal solves that hole if it's the only thing it does. We now have as good of a #2 hitter as any team in our division.

 

We still, of course, need 1 more OF, because if Fields is not playing LF next year as has been said, our OF still has Owens, Dye, Blank. So we still have at least 1 more signing to put out there before we can field a team.

[SoxAce]

And the signing of Uribe told you that he would be our starting SS, that should show you how accurate your feelings are.

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Jesus, it's only November. And if some people read alittle more on this thread Kenny has already stated he's looking to trade Uribe which would make this trade look even better. I've already stated that I don't mind this trade one bit. I love O.Cabrera. It just sucks that we couldnt get back at least a spect (or two) But taking 12 mil off the books and getting upgraded at SS is solid. Kenny definitely has something else up his sleeve. This is soxtalk so I do expect overreaction and stubborness.

[NorthSideSox72]

Things started going downhill after '05 when KW's only goal of the offseason was to improve our bench. Paid relatively big money for Mack/Cintron...yet when these guys had to step in due to injuries last year they were worse than most teams rookies who stepped up and they have no upside. Moral of the story get young talent vs. keeping around older utility guys. I also think Uribe offensively will be terrible as a sub and that ozzie will have a different lineup everyday to keep him fresh which results in no hitters getting comfortable or in a rhythm.

So.... Thome and Vaz were bench players?

 

[kwolf68]

Why in the world would KW trade Garland and keep Contreras I will never know.

 

Thanks for the 2005 World Series champion, Jon. We'll miss you.

 

 

Simple: Because Kenny can't trade Jose. He's gassed and the real sad thing about this is Kenny didn't know he was gassed until the jalope' actually broke down on the side of the road.

 

Kenny is such an ass.

 

You don't trade in your junker car after it throws a rod and that is exactly what Williams tried to do last year with Jose. He couldn't get anyone out so Williams goes shopping him, as if the other GMs in baseball don't watch TV. He goes to shopping Dye in a contract year, shops Mark in a contract year, shops Crede coming back from injury going into a contract year. Crede was wanted by the Angels last year and any reports you read said the Sox were due to bring in a pretty nice haul, but Williams was out of his mind and didn't try to trade Crede UNTIL NOW, after his back finally gave way and with a contract year getting ready to start up.

 

What is he doing? It's par for the course with this guy. Hang onto guys one year too late and then quickly try to deal your diminishing, aging talent before anyone notices they can't play anymore. He just continues to make this team older with no rhyme or reason. He's a lot like Dan Snyder, just collecting guys, making moves for the hell of it so his own name can be in the papers.

 

If Williams ever wins another World Series again it will be a miracle. The guy sucks as a GM. He got lucky in 2005.

[29andPoplar]

And the signing of Uribe told you that he would be our starting SS,

 

That's just it. This is just the first domino, Williams is already saying he's in on other potential deals and he's saying he wants to move Uribe.

 

It is a natural reaction for fans to look at one deal and jump to conclusions about what will be, but it doesn't work that way with this front office. Other things will get done. One position has been upgraded and now they'll try to upgrade others. For all you rebuilding fans, it ain't happening, another quote from Williams today was "we are 100% commited, from top to bottom, to achieve another World Championship". Personally I like that approach, I have seen too many the kids can play seasons when they really couldn't play. But that's just me and I realize others will have a different take.

 

This is actually quite a fun time of year to be a baseball fan.

 

[WCSox]

No. The $12 mil "off the books" is in moving Garland, as an isolated move. It implies NOTHING about the cash involved in the deal.

 

Yeah, there's no way that the Angels are giving us Cabrera and $9 million. I imagine that it's probably half that, at most.

 

[Wanne]

Judging by some responses on Angels boards...they're not thrilled with this trade.

My favorite response was: "Let's see...we trade for a ground ball pitcher and give them our Gold Glove shortstop?..." Or something to that affect.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Wanne

[mr_genius]

^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Jesus, it's only November. And if some people read alittle more on this thread Kenny has already stated he's looking to trade Uribe which would make this trade look even better. I've already stated that I don't mind this trade one bit. I love O.Cabrera. It just sucks that we couldnt get back at least a spect (or two) But taking 12 mil off the books and getting upgraded at SS is solid. Kenny definitely has something else up his sleeve. This is soxtalk so I do expect overreaction and stubborness.

 

I guess the issue is whether the upgrade at short was significant enough to justify trading away your number 3 starter. I understand that Uribe is going to be dealt, but I don't think he has very much value. Of course, the complaints are based on this trade alone and not taking into consideration future trades. However, the starting pitching staff has a couple holes right now, which is not a good situation. Having a really weak 5th starter is bad, having a gap in the 4th and 5th spot is really unacceptable IMO. The starting rotation and the bullpen have a lot work that needs to be done.

[PAUL KONERKO 14]

Here's a big one...

 

 

Cabrera-2

Eckstein-0

Well they do play in different leagues.

[southsideirish71]

Well they do play in different leagues.

 

Now read what you just typed, and then take a look at Mr. Ecksteins offense. Then project he isnt in the minor leagues anymore and he has to face good pitching in the American League. Being Irish, I have a special place in my heart for the wee people, and their magic. But let me assure you, Mr. Ecksteins magic pixie dust can be someone elses problem.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

I guess the issue is whether the upgrade at short was significant enough to justify trading away your number 3 starter. I understand that Uribe is going to be dealt, but I don't think he has very much value. Of course, the complaints are based on this trade alone and not taking into consideration future trades. However, the starting pitching staff has a couple holes right now, which is not a good situation. Having a really weak 5th starter is bad, having a gap in the 4th and 5th spot is really unacceptable IMO. The starting rotation and the bullpen have a lot work that needs to be done.

Hate to say it, but I think the starting rotation is probably set unless either we gamble on a Garcia/Colon/Clement coming off an injury.. I don't think you do this deal as is unless you think Floyd and Danks are taking those last 2 spots and you're still counting on Jose. Because the next option on the list seems to be Broadway and Gio, and I find it hard to believe we're penciling either of those 2 into the rotation yet.

[rockren]

Well they do play in different leagues.

 

OC is time times the player Eck is.

 

When OC gets here- you'll love watching him everyday on the South Side. This guy is a blast to watch.

[witesoxfan]

Well they do play in different leagues.

 

Yeah, exactly, Eckstein hit .300 in the AAAA division, whereas Cabrera hit .300 and put up a .750 OPS in the AL which is about twice as good.

 

Cabrera requires no long-term commitment (though one would not hurt), is better defensively and offensively, isn't near as injury prone as Eckstein, and costs the exact same financially.

 

There is nothing wrong with this deal at all.

[fathom]

That's just it. This is just the first domino, Williams is already saying he's in on other potential deals and he's saying he wants to move Uribe.

 

It is a natural reaction for fans to look at one deal and jump to conclusions about what will be, but it doesn't work that way with this front office. Other things will get done. One position has been upgraded and now they'll try to upgrade others. For all you rebuilding fans, it ain't happening, another quote from Williams today was "we are 100% commited, from top to bottom, to achieve another World Championship". Personally I like that approach, I have seen too many the kids can play seasons when they really couldn't play. But that's just me and I realize others will have a different take.

 

This is actually quite a fun time of year to be a baseball fan.

 

Yep, the sooner people realize we're not rebuilding, the easier it will be to understand the moves. Like you said, it's more entertaining to go online every morning to see who we're rumored to be going after instead of who we're rumored to be getting rid of. I think there's still 2 huge acquisitions down the road.

[buckweaver]

Yeah, there's no way that the Angels are giving us Cabrera and $9 million. I imagine that it's probably half that, at most.

If that's the truth, then the writing is misleading. To me, trading a $12M guy for a $9M guy takes $3M "off the books." To get $12M "off the books," you'd need to give $12M and take back $0...$9M in salary and a big honkin' $9M check. But I'm no math whiz. Still, I'm guessing you are probably right...it's just bad writing.

[RockRaines]

OC is time times the player Eck is.

 

When OC gets here- you'll love watching him everyday on the South Side. This guy is a blast to watch.

Hes also a great leader and clubhouse guy and brings energy to the field which was lacking last season. Most angels fans are upset about losing his character, and rightfully so.

[jackie hayes]

Hate to say it, but I think the starting rotation is probably set unless either we gamble on a Garcia/Colon/Clement coming off an injury.. I don't think you do this deal as is unless you think Floyd and Danks are taking those last 2 spots and you're still counting on Jose. Because the next option on the list seems to be Broadway and Gio, and I find it hard to believe we're penciling either of those 2 into the rotation yet.

Or Egbert, fwiw. I could see that.

[WCSox]

Cabrera requires no long-term commitment (though one would not hurt), is better defensively and offensively, isn't near as injury prone as Eckstein, and costs the exact same financially.

 

Eckstein makes $9 million/year? You've got to be kidding me.

 

[jackie hayes]

Now read what you just typed, and then take a look at Mr. Ecksteins offense. Then project he isnt in the minor leagues anymore and he has to face good pitching in the American League. Being Irish, I have a special place in my heart for the wee people, and their magic. But let me assure you, Mr. Ecksteins magic pixie dust can be someone elses problem.

[RockRaines]

ok, ive softened on this. I guess talent for talent O cab is a better player, but I really thought that pitching would bring back a better haul. Of course with another signing this may look really great for us. We shall see.

[RockRaines]

Eckstein makes $9 million/year? You've got to be kidding me.

As a starting SS, he may be close to what we would pay for O Cab considering we are getting money.

[rockren]

Hes also a great leader and clubhouse guy and brings energy to the field which was lacking last season. Most angels fans are upset about losing his character, and rightfully so.

 

I'll bet Vlad isn't happy about this. The past few years, OC has been their 2nd best hitter IMO.

 

Vlad and OC appeared to have been extremely close as well. I feel bad for Vlad but feel great for us.

 

[witesoxfan]

Eckstein makes $9 million/year? You've got to be kidding me.

 

That's been the speculation; he's looking for 4/$36

[Balta1701]

Or Egbert, fwiw. I could see that.

Based on who they gave tryouts to last year, I think what's most likely to happen is that we'll just start off with MB, JV, Contreras, Danks, Floyd as the starting 5. And on top of that, they'll start off with Egbert, Gio, Haeger, Broadway, and Sisco in AAA. And for the last 3 in the big leagues, each one of them gets put on a short leash, where if they struggle for a month, they're bullpen material and one of the other guys (Broadway probably first in line) comes up & gets a shot. That's my reading of how the tryouts last year went.