RME JICO Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 111 holds since 2004 would have been more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 The thing that sucks is that because Masset, Aardsma, Sisco, McDougal and company were all complete failures last year pretty much forced us into this signing. Its fair by the market standards right now, but it isn't my favorite thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 OVERPAID...when we signed hermanson from the NL in 2005 we gave him what 2 yrs 5 MIL. Thats what this guy should have got u cant trust pitchers who pitched in pitcher friendly parks in the NL. They get lit up in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(joeynach @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) OVERPAID...when we signed hermanson from the NL in 2005 we gave him what 2 yrs 5 MIL. Thats what this guy should have got u cant trust pitchers who pitched in pitcher friendly parks in the NL. They get lit up in the AL. of course thats what we should have done - oh wait, except had we done that we wouldn't have signed him so... i'm good with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(joeynach @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 08:37 PM) OVERPAID...when we signed hermanson from the NL in 2005 we gave him what 2 yrs 5 MIL. Thats what this guy should have got u cant trust pitchers who pitched in pitcher friendly parks in the NL. They get lit up in the AL. yeah hermanson didn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(joeynach @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) OVERPAID...when we signed hermanson from the NL in 2005 we gave him what 2 yrs 5 MIL. Thats what this guy should have got u cant trust pitchers who pitched in pitcher friendly parks in the NL. They get lit up in the AL. 1. That was 2 years ago 2. Hermanson was not a proven reliever, let alone the best setup guy on the year's market. He had one or two seasons as a reliever, with an era over 4.00. Edited November 22, 2007 by max power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 It wasn't a trade, it's just money so I'm happy. Hopefully he will catch fire next year and be an effective reliever. The Brews once traded 3 guys to get this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 People who are surprised and/or upset with these moves don't understand the direction the team is going. Like it or hate it we're trying to win now. That means established veterans and those types of players tend to be expensive whether your giving up talent (Garland) or cash ($19 million). Personally, I don't really like the direction we're headed because I don't think we have enough to work with but I've accepted it. The dies been cast for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(Jeremy @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) People who are surprised and/or upset with these moves don't understand the direction the team is going. Like it or hate it we're trying to win now. That means established veterans and those types of players tend to be expensive whether your giving up talent (Garland) or cash ($19 million). Personally, I don't really like the direction we're headed because I don't think we have enough to work with but I've accepted it. The dies been cast for a while now. Nice in theory, but much work is left to be done to get into that position. Maybe Linebrink is a piece, but overall this team sucks. Our third-5th starters are Count, Floyd and Danks. While all have (some) potential, it's a very ugly rotation if these guys don't really step up. We also have no leadoff, no CF, questions at 3rd and 2nd and our proven good players are getting older by the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 04:45 PM) Nice in theory, but much work is left to be done to get into that position. Maybe Linebrink is a piece, but overall this team sucks. Our third-5th starters are Count, Floyd and Danks. While all have (some) potential, it's a very ugly rotation if these guys don't really step up. We also have no leadoff, no CF, questions at 3rd and 2nd and our proven good players are getting older by the day. Pretty accurate description. There is reason to be optimistic in a couple of those spots. I like Floyd or Danks to have a solid season. It is not crazy to think a healthy Crede will answer that question in a positive manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) Nice in theory, but much work is left to be done to get into that position. Maybe Linebrink is a piece, but overall this team sucks. Our third-5th starters are Count, Floyd and Danks. While all have (some) potential, it's a very ugly rotation if these guys don't really step up. We also have no leadoff, no CF, questions at 3rd and 2nd and our proven good players are getting older by the day. Its early. I would wait before you start judging this offseason... The bullpen was slightly imporved with the aquisition of Linebrink.. If KW can bring over a japanese veteran like Yasuhiku Yabuta i think that would upgrade our pen tremendously. You figure MacDougal, Thorton can only improve from last years mess and you have Wasserman and Logan on the rise. 2005 was unique because the Sox had 5 veteran starters (Freddy, Jon, Mark, Jose, and El-Duque)... Most of their salary actually went to the starters.. but now with the market going waaay up its almost impossible to carry 5 veteran starters unless you are Boston or the Yankees. You need to eventually have to start developing your starting pitchers... I think Mark and Javy are pretty good 1-2 punch.. And with Jose's uncertainties i really expect KW go out and find another starter. Heres what i think he has left to do: 1 more reliever (Yabuta, maybe Hawkins) 1 more veteran starter (Fogg, Colon, or Garcia?) a Center fielder (Rowand to make his return?) a Left fielder (Does Kenny have enough guts to strip his already bare farmsystem for a can't miss Miquel Cabrera or Carl Crawford?? I hope so..... the fans need an impact player like this) Possibilites: Does Richar start? Does Uribe start at 2nd? Does Kenny get another 2B? Trades: I expect Crede to be dealt... I also expect Uribe to be dealt to hopefully patch up other needs .. Maybe black friday will turn into White Sox friday with some amazing news? I trust Kenny... this is going to be his biggest challenge , but he has done it before and i think he can do it again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 04:45 PM) Nice in theory, but much work is left to be done to get into that position. Maybe Linebrink is a piece, but overall this team sucks. Our third-5th starters are Count, Floyd and Danks. While all have (some) potential, it's a very ugly rotation if these guys don't really step up. We also have no leadoff, no CF, questions at 3rd and 2nd and our proven good players are getting older by the day. Yeah, I don't think it's going to be successful but it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(Jeremy @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 09:11 AM) People who are surprised and/or upset with these moves don't understand the direction the team is going. Like it or hate it we're trying to win now. That means established veterans and those types of players tend to be expensive whether your giving up talent (Garland) or cash ($19 million). Personally, I don't really like the direction we're headed because I don't think we have enough to work with but I've accepted it. The dies been cast for a while now. That's not my beef with this move. The pen obviously needs fixing, and I'm glad KW is trying to address that. My problem is, I think there were better options out there on the market. Linebrink could easily post an ERA over 4 for us pitching at the Cell. He gives up a lot of HR's, and he really fell apart in the 2nd half of 2007, maybe because he's thrown too many innings over the past couple of years. The same thing happened to Scott Shields. I compared this signing to the Indians signing Kobayashi. And yes, that is more of a risk / rewards move. But they will be paying about $10M less, and I wouldn't be at all suprised if he puts up better numbers than Linebrink. And they don't lose a draft pick for signing him either. I'd still like for us to sign a reliever from Japan and trade MacDougal mind you. Mac just doesn't have the mental capacity to be a clutch reliever for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) I compared this signing to the Indians signing Kobayashi. And yes, that is more of a risk / rewards move. But they will be paying about $10M less, and I wouldn't be at all suprised if he puts up better numbers than Linebrink. And they don't lose a draft pick for signing him either. As far as I understand, Kobayashi wants an opportunity to close. He was not getting that here without trading Jenks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 11:12 AM) As far as I understand, Kobayashi wants an opportunity to close. He was not getting that here without trading Jenks. Well he'll obviously be behind Borowski for the moment. He might not be closing until 2009 at the earliest. And if we did sign Kobayashi, it would give us the luxury of dangling Jenks in trade talks, and we'd get a very nice package back for him, that would help fill our needs in CF and rebuild our system. I hope we still sign Yabuta though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(bmags @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) yeah hermanson didn't work out. Dustin was the closer for most of 2005. Give him some props. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 that was the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 06:18 PM) Well he'll obviously be behind Borowski for the moment. He might not be closing until 2009 at the earliest. Borowski sucks. Anyways, I hope we sign Yabuta too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 11:31 AM) Borowski sucks. Anyways, I hope we sign Yabuta too. Yeah he does. And despite having much better relievers in front of him, the Indians didn't make a change. Could happen again in 2008. Reminds me of the Todd Jones situation in Detroit really. Signing a reliever from Japan and trading MacDougal for prospects (or Luke Scott, because Ed Wade loves his relievers) makes a lot of sense right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 06:36 PM) Yeah he does. And despite having much better relievers in front of him, the Indians didn't make a change. Could happen again in 2008. Reminds me of the Todd Jones situation in Detroit really. Signing a reliever from Japan and trading MacDougal for prospects (or Luke Scott, because Ed Wade loves his relievers) makes a lot of sense right now. I would love me some Luke Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 With this deal occuring, doesn't it make sense to ship Macdougal off? Maybe he will be apart of the Crede deal... or the giant package we are going to give Tampa for Crawford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 linebrink is the same as riske who we didn't even offer arbitration to last year. (who needs draft picks?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Yeah, he was bad for them, but Yost also had no clue when to put him in/pull him. And you think Ozzie does?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 07:28 PM) And you think Ozzie does?! As I pointed out on page 9 of this thread, if the pitchers are doing their job, Copper and and Guillen handle the bullpen very well. What is so bad about this deal he didn't cost as much and should be at least a decent guy with Thorton and McDougal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 With this deal occuring, doesn't it make sense to ship Macdougal off? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Get rid of that guy ASAP please!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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