GGW "Creator" - "Jail Is Mean"

[Texsox]

The difference is their solutions related directly to the situation.

 

With self help gurus their "solution" to any problem is to run across hot coals or broken glass. There is no scientific evidence that running across hot coals will cure your mental issues. It's just a cheap carny trick.

 

And Robbins will agree with you 100%. The hot coals walk is to show you can achieve things your mind tells you is impossible. It is not marketed as a cure for anything.

[Texsox]

Then who exactly is going? People who don't have problems and like to waste money?

 

 

 

What a f***ing scam artist.

 

People who are looking for an edge over their competition. People go to golf pros to improve their game. Tennis pros. Some of these guys are sales pros, some offer a nice motivational lift, a boost of confidence. For some it's great entertainment.

 

People waste their money in a variety of ways, look at Vegas. How many people blew half their paychecks at bars last night? If we're going to call someone a f***ing scam artist, how about Vegas, state lotteries, and every bartender in North America?

[Texsox]

Another thought. For better or worst, these are the modern day Philosophers. It would be easy to hear y'all calling Plato or Aristotle scam artists in their day. And please, I am not comparing them in terms of impact or brilliance, just pointing out that infomercials and web sites are the ways today to philosophize. They are caring on in that tradition. I do not know who history will judge as the great philosopher of our day, but I'll bet he has a web site and is making a profit in some way.

[DrunkBomber]

And Robbins will agree with you 100%. The hot coals walk is to show you can achieve things your mind tells you is impossible. It is not marketed as a cure for anything.

Youve went to this or something like this havent you? Im not asking to be an ass, but this is very similar to the answers I got from my family members after they went.

[santo=dorf]

And Robbins will agree with you 100%. The hot coals walk is to show you can achieve things your mind tells you is impossible. It is not marketed as a cure for anything.

Then the problem is Robbins and others sell their methods as the "solution" to walking across the "impossible" hot coals even though it's really just simple physics. Is that really worth $10k a week? To do silly tricks and have someone blatanly lie to you?

[santo=dorf]

People who are looking for an edge over their competition. People go to golf pros to improve their game. Tennis pros. Some of these guys are sales pros, some offer a nice motivational lift, a boost of confidence. For some it's great entertainment.

 

People waste their money in a variety of ways, look at Vegas. How many people blew half their paychecks at bars last night? If we're going to call someone a f***ing scam artist, how about Vegas, state lotteries, and every bartender in North America?

Um what? The Bartender got me drunk. Vegas and other casinos offers a chance to improve my wealth with me knowing the consequences of my risks and actions. Lotteries are a scam which is why I avoid them.

 

Wasting money for a services that delivers is not a scam.

Wasting money for a service that doesn't work and having someone lie to you about it is a scam.

[Texsox]

Youve went to this or something like this havent you? Im not asking to be an ass, but this is very similar to the answers I got from my family members after they went.

 

Sure have. Not Robbins, I was more into the sales seminars. To me it was like taking additional classes. While my competition was singing the latest rap song, watching ER, and hanging out at the bars, I was trying to get better. I didn't see much of a difference between a college professor scamming me on Shakespeare or Behaviorism and Dale Carnegie scamming me about my public speaking skills. There are a lot of misconceptions about who is in these classes. I never saw the deranged, suicidal, misfits that many people believe are there. It was almost always suits getting into company paid for cars, who paid for the seminar on their expense accounts.

[Texsox]

Um what? The Bartender got me drunk. Vegas and other casinos offers a chance to improve my wealth with me knowing the consequences of my risks and actions. Lotteries are a scam which is why I avoid them.

 

Wasting money for a services that delivers is not a scam.

Wasting money for a service that doesn't work and having someone lie to you about it is a scam.

 

Those would be scams.

 

Looking over the list of the best selling books of all time, so many titles are self help, including the book in the #1 spot. There are a great many people looking to better their lives. This approach would not work for you, so you reject it for everyone.

 

You probably could not learn from anyone on how they achieved their success, or strategies that have worked for others. That's cool. Other people like to study what has made other people successful. Part of that studying is attending lectures given by speakers on this topic. No doubt there are some scams out there, but there have been medical scams by Medical Doctors since the beginning, but I doubt you wil call all Doctors scam artists. But maybe you would.

[DrunkBomber]

Sure have. Not Robbins, I was more into the sales seminars. To me it was like taking additional classes. While my competition was singing the latest rap song, watching ER, and hanging out at the bars, I was trying to get better. I didn't see much of a difference between a college professor scamming me on Shakespeare or Behaviorism and Dale Carnegie scamming me about my public speaking skills. There are a lot of misconceptions about who is in these classes. I never saw the deranged, suicidal, misfits that many people believe are there. It was almost always suits getting into company paid for cars, who paid for the seminar on their expense accounts.

Maybe the one you went to was a little different. It sounds like you went there to get an edge and not to find answers to all lifes problems and some people really go for those reasons. Im not sure about all the other guys, I know that Robbins is a con artist. He literally pretends to want to help people and ultimately breaks down their self esteem and makes them think that before they got there everything they were doing was wrong and there is only one way to fix it.

 

He literally tries to make them think they can change the outcomes of things with their minds. I normally wouldnt think twice about something like this but members of my family went and they were certified crazy people after. Ill see them doing stuff like visualizing checks coming in the mail because Robbins told them if you do that unexpected checks will come without actually doing anything.

 

It even got to the point where my own family was attacking me for not sharing in some of these beliefs and claiming my negative attitude was preventing their success because TR told them others negative energy will hurt your progress. By negative energy, they mean, working for checks instead of visualizing them. Then, when the checks dont come, you have a reason to go back, or buy the next set of CDs to listen to.

 

As far as the stuff like walking on coals, its like everyone said, its something that anyone can do with a short explanation on how to do it safely. Its just a gimmick and a ploy. If he really wanted to help people, he should help them learn time management, budgeting, work ethic, self confidence (and no, he absolutely does not preach this, its the opposite, he makes you feel like your a piece of s*** until youre finished with his "training")

 

Also, Im not sure if its been mentioned in this thread, but the guy was hard core selling a book on how to make personal relationships work WHILE he was going through a divorce.

[DrunkBomber]

Those would be scams.

 

Looking over the list of the best selling books of all time, so many titles are self help, including the book in the #1 spot. There are a great many people looking to better their lives. This approach would not work for you, so you reject it for everyone.

 

You probably could not learn from anyone on how they achieved their success, or strategies that have worked for others. That's cool. Other people like to study what has made other people successful. Part of that studying is attending lectures given by speakers on this topic. No doubt there are some scams out there, but there have been medical scams by Medical Doctors since the beginning, but I doubt you wil call all Doctors scam artists. But maybe you would.

The ones that are in the pharmaceutical companies pockets are some of the worst kind of crooks

[Texsox]

Maybe the one you went to was a little different. It sounds like you went there to get an edge and not to find answers to all lifes problems and some people really go for those reasons. Im not sure about all the other guys, I know that Robbins is a con artist. He literally pretends to want to help people and ultimately breaks down their self esteem and makes them think that before they got there everything they were doing was wrong and there is only one way to fix it.

 

He literally tries to make them think they can change the outcomes of things with their minds. I normally wouldnt think twice about something like this but members of my family went and they were certified crazy people after. Ill see them doing stuff like visualizing checks coming in the mail because Robbins told them if you do that unexpected checks will come without actually doing anything.

 

It even got to the point where my own family was attacking me for not sharing in some of these beliefs and claiming my negative attitude was preventing their success because TR told them others negative energy will hurt your progress. By negative energy, they mean, working for checks instead of visualizing them. Then, when the checks dont come, you have a reason to go back, or buy the next set of CDs to listen to.

 

As far as the stuff like walking on coals, its like everyone said, its something that anyone can do with a short explanation on how to do it safely. Its just a gimmick and a ploy. If he really wanted to help people, he should help them learn time management, budgeting, work ethic, self confidence (and no, he absolutely does not preach this, its the opposite, he makes you feel like your a piece of s*** until youre finished with his "training")

 

Also, Im not sure if its been mentioned in this thread, but the guy was hard core selling a book on how to make personal relationships work WHILE he was going through a divorce.

 

Actually I've been to many, Zig Zigler, if you are into sales, is great. Dennis Waitley is very entertaining, I graduated form the Dale Carnegie 13 weeks public speaking class, and also attended their Sales Advantage Classes. Recently Gorbachev was very inspirational.

 

Yes, anyone can walk on fire, that is the entire point. Most people do not believe they can. In fact they have people telling them why they cannot be successful. So they pay people to make them feel good about themselves. They also pay for plastic surgery, beauty make overs, watch Jerry Springer, Oprah, Dr. Phil, Dr. Laura, Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly and hundreds of others.

 

As far as time management, etc. Been to a few of those as well. It is impossible to teach all of those in the same seminar at the same time. I've watched the rocks, gravel, pebbles, sand, and water at least half a dozen times, each time learning something new.

 

And finally, I know a lot more about relationships having gone through a divorce than I did before. I'm certain everyone here will probably tell you the same. You really learn something when it is broken and you have to fix it. I'm not saying he had anything usefull to add, but just because someone failed doesn't make them less of a teacher or mean they have nothing to teach you. The smartest people I know all look for things to learn from everyone they meet. As I mentioned earlier my most recent was Gorbachev, I think there is a lot we could learn about politics from him, but he had a failure or two.

[DrunkBomber]

Actually I've been to many, Zig Zigler, if you are into sales, is great. Dennis Waitley is very entertaining, I graduated form the Dale Carnegie 13 weeks public speaking class, and also attended their Sales Advantage Classes. Recently Gorbachev was very inspirational.

 

Yes, anyone can walk on fire, that is the entire point. Most people do not believe they can. In fact they have people telling them why they cannot be successful. So they pay people to make them feel good about themselves. They also pay for plastic surgery, beauty make overs, watch Jerry Springer, Oprah, Dr. Phil, Dr. Laura, Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly and hundreds of others.

 

As far as time management, etc. Been to a few of those as well. It is impossible to teach all of those in the same seminar at the same time. I've watched the rocks, gravel, pebbles, sand, and water at least half a dozen times, each time learning something new.

 

And finally, I know a lot more about relationships having gone through a divorce than I did before. I'm certain everyone here will probably tell you the same. You really learn something when it is broken and you have to fix it. I'm not saying he had anything usefull to add, but just because someone failed doesn't make them less of a teacher or mean they have nothing to teach you. The smartest people I know all look for things to learn from everyone they meet. As I mentioned earlier my most recent was Gorbachev, I think there is a lot we could learn about politics from him, but he had a failure or two.

Well, I think the issue was that he wrote the book while he was married, about how to have a perfect marriage and started marketing it right after he got divorced. So, it couldnt have been anything like, "learn from my mistakes" it was more "well look how happy I am." At least thats what I read.

[Texsox]

Well, I think the issue was that he wrote the book while he was married, about how to have a perfect marriage and started marketing it right after he got divorced. So, it couldnt have been anything like, "learn from my mistakes" it was more "well look how happy I am." At least thats what I read.

 

I would never have thought of him for that subject. he was probably reading every book he could to help his own marriage and decided to make all the research pay off, funny, she probably received a percentage of the profits.

[DrunkBomber]

I would never have thought of him for that subject. he was probably reading every book he could to help his own marriage and decided to make all the research pay off, funny, she probably received a percentage of the profits.

I severely doubt he was going around reading books about how to save his own marriage and decided to use what he learned to write a book. Im sure it was more like, Ill write a book about another topic trying to make money and later it will be exposed that maybe I dont know how to fix my own problems let alone others.

 

You make it sound like this guy is a saint. I dunno, if you havent been to see him you probably dont know what kind of guy he is.

[santo=dorf]

So Tex, how is your sales career working out these days?

 

I paid for a service that scientifically worked. It's not a scam. I wanted to get drunk. I paid for alcohol. I got drunk.

I was hungry. I bought some food. My hunger disappeared.

 

Have you ever been convinced otherwise? The reason why those books are so popular is because they are selling what people want, but unfortunately people aren't getting their full satisfaction. If these seminars work, why in the hell would someone have to go back more than once?

 

Do us both a favor. Take a half hour out your time and watch the video I posted. It argues this topic we are talking about.

 

On one side there is a would be comedian, a licensed real estate agent, a crazy woman in a trailer and on the other side there is a licensed psychologist and physics instructor.

 

want to guess whose side I'm currently on?

[Gregory Pratt]

Tex,

 

Did you really just say that infomercials, websites and Robbins are today's philosophers? Please elaborate.

 

Gregory Pratt

[Texsox]

Tex,

 

Did you really just say that infomercials, websites and Robbins are today's philosophers? Please elaborate.

 

Gregory Pratt

 

No, I said that the philosophers of our day would have a website, perhaps an infomercial, a viral video on youtube, a myspace account, etc. Those are the popular forms of communications today. I don't think it would be to tough to apply most definitions of philosophy to Robbins. However, his philosophy probably will not extend past his life. I also am not saying his philosophy is good, valid, rational, or anything else. But even a poor philosopher is still a philosopher, just like the guy who dgraduates last from medical school is still called Doctor.

 

Or as was penned four decades ago

 

And the people bowed and prayed

To the neon god they made

And the sign flashed out its warning

In the words that it was forming

And the sign said "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls"

[Gregory Pratt]

No, I said that the philosophers of our day would have a website, perhaps an infomercial, a viral video on youtube, a myspace account, etc. Those are the popular forms of communications today. I don't think it would be to tough to apply most definitions of philosophy to Robbins. However, his philosophy probably will not extend past his life. I also am not saying his philosophy is good, valid, rational, or anything else. But even a poor philosopher is still a philosopher, just like the guy who dgraduates last from medical school is still called Doctor.

 

Or as was penned four decades ago

 

And the people bowed and prayed

To the neon god they made

And the sign flashed out its warning

In the words that it was forming

And the sign said "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls"

 

Okay. I thought I'd give you the chance to add depth to your statement, because this:

 

Another thought. For better or worst, these are the modern day Philosophers. It would be easy to hear y'all calling Plato or Aristotle scam artists in their day. And please, I am not comparing them in terms of impact or brilliance, just pointing out that infomercials and web sites are the ways today to philosophize. They are caring on in that tradition. I do not know who history will judge as the great philosopher of our day, but I'll bet he has a web site and is making a profit in some way.

 

was confusing to me for a variety of reasons, the first being the jumble of statements there: you state that they are the modern day philosophers; then you say that infomercials and websites are the ways to "philosophize"; then you say that the great philosopher of our day probably has a website and is making some sort of profit. I am having trouble beginning my criticism so I'll simply point out where I think you have erred.

 

I will state that "the great philosopher of our day" probably doesn't have a website and likely works for a College somewhere, or a research institution or he writes books. He certainly makes money somehow but I promise you, the "great philosopher" and, hell, great philosophers of our day don't have infomercials or flashy websites and they likely don't put themselves on YouTube or MySpace. Books still rule academia and there's little more "academic" than philosophy. I just took exception to the phrase, "these are the modern day philosophers" and thought I'd elaborate on why Robbins or people like him don't really count.

[Texsox]

All very good points, but if no one knows about them, do they exist? Isn't there some criteria about impact? If all they have done is write a couple books that no one reads, can they pass the test of time.

[Gregory Pratt]

All very good points, but if no one knows about them, do they exist?

 

Not a bad laugh!

 

But responding to that seriously -- plenty of people know about modern philosophers. Academics, students, those with a significant interest in contemporary philosophy. I don't count myself a student of philosophy. I prefer poetry for concise, vague insight. The last philosopher I really became acquainted with was Leo Strauss, whose ideas I was espousing at work without knowing it and my boss, who is big on the Greeks, said, "Oh, you should check out Strauss!" so I did. He's alright. He's also in my general realm: politics. He's known by some as the forefather of neoconservatism but I disagree with that, though that's a whole nother story.

 

Anyway, I'm just saying -- lots of philosophers exist and know about each other. I mean, did the average person know about Hobbes and Nietzsche when they lived? Does the average person know? That sort of intellectual discourse isn't made for Vanity magazine or websites but there are a lot of people involved and knowledgebale about it. Maybe I'll ask one of my Professors about philosophers of today on Friday, since this is a guy I met by chance who I talk baseball with since he's completely crazy about the game and I am as well. (we also talk a little politics and a little life.)

 

That's all I've got on the subject.

[Texsox]

Not a bad laugh!

 

But responding to that seriously -- plenty of people know about modern philosophers. Academics, students, those with a significant interest in contemporary philosophy. I don't count myself a student of philosophy. I prefer poetry for concise, vague insight. The last philosopher I really became acquainted with was Leo Strauss, whose ideas I was espousing at work without knowing it and my boss, who is big on the Greeks, said, "Oh, you should check out Strauss!" so I did. He's alright. He's also in my general realm: politics. He's known by some as the forefather of neoconservatism but I disagree with that, though that's a whole nother story.

 

Anyway, I'm just saying -- lots of philosophers exist and know about each other. I mean, did the average person know about Hobbes and Nietzsche when they lived? Does the average person know? That sort of intellectual discourse isn't made for Vanity magazine or websites but there are a lot of people involved and knowledgebale about it. Maybe I'll ask one of my Professors about philosophers of today on Friday, since this is a guy I met by chance who I talk baseball with since he's completely crazy about the game and I am as well. (we also talk a little politics and a little life.)

 

That's all I've got on the subject.

 

Like I said excellent points, but millions more will be exposed to the philosophy of Thom Yorke and he will have a greater impact than someone writing a dusty academic tome that will be read by dozens.

[Gregory Pratt]

First, this was said to me by someone else on a different place:

 

"Almost every professional philosopher today is in academia.

 

Here's a good starting list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:21st...losophers"

 

So, that's where we would find "professional philosophers" and as I suspected, they're almost all in academia.

 

As to your newest query -- I am unsure how to respond. I am fit to defend philosophy in general terms but not in great specifics. I am no expert on the subject, so I'll yield to anyone here who does know more about philosophy and is better able to address your questions. But I will give a couple of general opinions I believe are accurate:

 

1. Philosophers and academics would probably be incredulous if they heard you refer to their work as "dusty tome that will be read by dozens". It's a disrespectful designation: thousands of people read most of the philosophers' work, I'm sure.

2. There's always been a discrepency between what the general public listens to and what academics do. Generally, what academics, what hte brain trust elite remember, is what the society will remember in time or what will be remembered of the society. That gets us into the subject of HISTORY and who writes history and who assigns "merit" to ideas and books and things of that sort, but I have little to add beyond what I've alluded to.

3. Bob Dylan might well be the most influential philosopher of his day, but who knows how he'll be treated by time.

4. Strauss is a fine example -- Strauss is a guy whose work you might've characterized as read by "dozens" but if one of htose dozens is Paul Wolfowitz and he takes it as his creed and helps lead the nation into war, clearly it's more important than Radiohead which only inspires people to -- what, exactly?

 

(I don't want to dismiss Radiohead. I'm just saying.)

[Texsox]

I will agree that the few thousand professional philosophers will pick a fellow professional as the best of our generation. But who is having the greatest impact today and on the greatest number of people? Clearly it will not be someone publishing only for academics. To have any impact, and therefor something beyond theoretical value, it has to be in the hands of the common man.

 

Why does almost every American poet give props to Whitman? Because he not only wrote great poetry, he also made poetry accessible.

[Gregory Pratt]

I will agree that the few thousand professional philosophers will pick a fellow professional as the best of our generation. But who is having the greatest impact today and on the greatest number of people? Clearly it will not be someone publishing only for academics. To have any impact, and therefor something beyond theoretical value, it has to be in the hands of the common man.

 

Why does almost every American poet give props to Whitman? Because he not only wrote great poetry, he also made poetry accessible.

 

The counter to that is: would the romance novels sold at Walgreens or the murder mysteries count as the greatest books of our day? "Sales" and "popularity" are nothing to the importance of a work, especially long-term. And I disagree that X or Y has to be "in the hands of the common man" to make an impact. First of all, there's nothing stopping "the common man" from picking up a copy of X or Y. Second, most people have never heard of Strauss and yet he's cited as a reason we went to War in Iraq, because Paul Wolfowitz

 

As for Whitman -- I don't believe that Whitman gets his props because he "made poetry accessible". That's too simplistic.

[Texsox]