WHITESOXRANDY Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 The Twins are reportedly completing a trade to Tampa of Garza, Bartlett and Rincon for Delmon Young, Jason Pirdie and Brendan Harris. I'm sorry to say this but I just have a bad feeling that the Twins will quickly reload by trading Santana and Nathan thus adding even more elite young talent. This is what I wanted the Sox to do last year but instead KW's going for it all. Could the Twins actually add enough young talent this year to finish ahead of the big payroll, veteran laden, going for it all White Sox ? With K.C. willing to overspend on FA's and KW having such a difficult time filling all the holes, I'm worried that the Sox and their fans could truly regret not going the rebuilding route. Someone please tell me that I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) The Twins are reportedly completing a trade to Tampa of Garza, Bartlett and Rincon for Delmon Young, Jason Pirdie and Brendan Harris. I'm sorry to say this but I just have a bad feeling that the Twins will quickly reload by trading Santana and Nathan thus adding even more elite young talent. This is what I wanted the Sox to do last year but instead KW's going for it all. Could the Twins actually add enough young talent this year to finish ahead of the big payroll, veteran laden, going for it all White Sox ? With K.C. willing to overspend on FA's and KW having such a difficult time filling all the holes, I'm worried that the Sox and their fans could truly regret not going the rebuilding route. Someone please tell me that I'm wrong. Why is TB so ready to give up Delmon Young? I dont get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Rebuilt how? They lost one of their best offensive weapons and are now trading young talent for young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 02:55 PM) Why is TB so ready to give up Delmon Young? I dont get it Because they want to pair another young stud pitcher with Kazmir before he hits FA and with Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinningUgly85 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) The Twins are reportedly completing a trade to Tampa of Garza, Bartlett and Rincon for Delmon Young, Jason Pirdie and Brendan Harris. I'm sorry to say this but I just have a bad feeling that the Twins will quickly reload by trading Santana and Nathan thus adding even more elite young talent. This is what I wanted the Sox to do last year but instead KW's going for it all. Could the Twins actually add enough young talent this year to finish ahead of the big payroll, veteran laden, going for it all White Sox ? With K.C. willing to overspend on FA's and KW having such a difficult time filling all the holes, I'm worried that the Sox and their fans could truly regret not going the rebuilding route. Someone please tell me that I'm wrong. After we sign Rowand we should look into getting Miguel Cabrera to play third. Then deal Fields, Crede and Uribe for Johan Santana and some relievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 02:59 PM) Because they want to pair another young stud pitcher with Kazmir before he hits FA and with Shields. Yeah, but their outfield is loaded with talent. Why the new guy with the most hype? Wouldnt Crawford or even Upton get you the same return if you put them in that deal? I believe they would. And yes, I know that the Twins probably asked for Young. If I were Tampa Bay, he would be the one I would really want to hold onto though QUOTE(WinningUgly85 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 03:02 PM) After we sign Rowand we should look into getting Miguel Cabrera to play third. Then deal Fields, Crede and Uribe for Johan Santana and some relievers. [Fair Trades button off] Edited November 28, 2007 by kyyle23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 The Sox are in big trouble for the next 5-7 years. We could flip spots with the Royals very soon here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 (edited) good move more both clubs....rays could really compete in 2 years or so...kazmir garza shields and price could be a mirror image of what detroit has with their young guns...add to that longoria and brignac waiting in the wings to add to crawford upton and maybe even dukes if he ever gets straightened out....especially if pena sticks around and continues to produce thats gonna be a dangerous team Edited November 28, 2007 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) good move more both clubs....rays could really compete in 2 years or so...kazmir garza shields and price could be a mirror image of what detroit has with their young guns...add to that longoria and brignac waiting in the wings to add to crawford upton and maybe even dukes if he ever gets straightened out....especially if pena sticks around and continues to produce thats gonna be a dangerous team And then throw Pedro Alvarez into that mix as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Dollar by dollar the Twins could be the best organization in all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 04:51 PM) And then throw Pedro Alvarez into that mix as well. i guess drafting #1 year after year after year is finally paying off for the rays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 royals could learn a lot from the twins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 10:04 PM) royals could learn a lot from the twins You mean the Sox, right? The Sox are nowhere near as good as the Twins are as of today. For that to change, the Sox need to improve substantially in CF and LF -- that means no Jerry Owens in either of those spots. And even if we do improve substantially in both spots -- say the ideal situation of landing Andruw Jones and someone like Luke Scott for LF -- we're still behind Cleveland and Detroit. 2008 White Sox Baseball -- Saddle up for a Long Year, Sox Fans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 04:16 PM) The Sox are in big trouble for the next 5-7 years. We could flip spots with the Royals very soon here. Or we could win the WS next year. This idea that collecting a bunch of stud prospects = success is irrational. It is ever bit as likely that Contreas goes 15-7 next year as any of the Twins pitchers, the Devil Rays pitchers or the Yankees prospects. Youth + potential does not = major league performance. Contreas 18 months ago was one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball...had some back troubles and now seems past them. Yet everyone thinks he's useless while Hughes and Chamberlain and Bucholtz and Pelfry and Garza and on and on are all studs. It wouldn't take more than fifteen minutes to come up with a list of 50 names that were equally hyped pitching prospects in the last ten years that turned out to be nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 03:04 PM) Yeah, but their outfield is loaded with talent. Why the new guy with the most hype? Wouldnt Crawford or even Upton get you the same return if you put them in that deal? I believe they would. And yes, I know that the Twins probably asked for Young. If I were Tampa Bay, he would be the one I would really want to hold onto though [Fair Trades button off] Did you see what BJ Upton did last year? He blew away Young's production. Upton put up an .893 OPS while Young was only at .722. Kind of amazing he had 93 RBI with that low a slugging percentage. His BA with RISP must have been phenomenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:09 PM) You mean the Sox, right? The Sox are nowhere near as good as the Twins are as of today. For that to change, the Sox need to improve substantially in CF and LF -- that means no Jerry Owens in either of those spots. And even if we do improve substantially in both spots -- say the ideal situation of landing Andruw Jones and someone like Luke Scott for LF -- we're still behind Cleveland and Detroit. 2008 White Sox Baseball -- Saddle up for a Long Year, Sox Fans! I don't get the negativism. "nowhere near as good as the Twins"? Based on last year true...but last year where the Sox had a ton of injuries and career worst seasons...sort of 05 in reverse. One can look at our young players like Danks, Gio, Floyd, Fields and Richar and say "garbage. And look at the Twins young players and say stars. But why be on Sox talk? I'm sure there's TWins talk down the dial. I think the Tigers pitching staff looks awful. And they crashed last year in spite of guys like Ordonez having a career year...most of their team is as old or older than the Sox. Even Cleveland..while Paul Byrd and Bettancourt go 20-9 again next year? Sox have a core of really good players...Cabrera, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Thome, Crede, Vazquez, Buehrle, Contreas, Jenks...and a bunch of good looking young players. If they get lucky and Gio comes up and goes 15-5...or Owens maintains a .340 OBP and steals 80? They could be every bit as good as any team in baseball. If I recall properly we are the only AL Central team to win the WS in the last 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 04:23 PM) I don't get the negativism. "nowhere near as good as the Twins"? Based on last year true...but last year where the Sox had a ton of injuries and career worst seasons...sort of 05 in reverse. One can look at our young players like Danks, Gio, Floyd, Fields and Richar and say "garbage. And look at the Twins young players and say stars. But why be on Sox talk? I'm sure there's TWins talk down the dial. I think the Tigers pitching staff looks awful. And they crashed last year in spite of guys like Ordonez having a career year...most of their team is as old or older than the Sox. Even Cleveland..while Paul Byrd and Bettancourt go 20-9 again next year? Sox have a core of really good players...Cabrera, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Thome, Crede, Vazquez, Buehrle, Contreas, Jenks...and a bunch of good looking young players. If they get lucky and Gio comes up and goes 15-5...or Owens maintains a .340 OBP and steals 80? They could be every bit as good as any team in baseball. If I recall properly we are the only AL Central team to win the WS in the last 3 years. Well Amen. Nice to see a positive outlook around here. I like your point about Detroit. I've been saying they are just as old as us for about a year now. You could see their collapse coming last year because they were so similar to the 06' White Sox team. Their staff? They've got Verlander/Bonderman/Miller/Robertson/Durbin? Who does that scare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Who exactly is going to pitch for the twins next year? Their lineup already took a huge hit offensively. I'd take our team over theirs in a heartbeat. Younger is not always better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 04:55 PM) Who exactly is going to pitch for the twins next year? Their lineup already took a huge hit offensively. I'd take our team over theirs in a heartbeat. Younger is not always better. I guess Liriano/Bonser/Baker/Slowey/a guy they get from dealing Santana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 04:23 PM) I don't get the negativism. "nowhere near as good as the Twins"? Based on last year true...but last year where the Sox had a ton of injuries and career worst seasons...sort of 05 in reverse. One can look at our young players like Danks, Gio, Floyd, Fields and Richar and say "garbage. And look at the Twins young players and say stars. But why be on Sox talk? I'm sure there's TWins talk down the dial. I think the Tigers pitching staff looks awful. And they crashed last year in spite of guys like Ordonez having a career year...most of their team is as old or older than the Sox. Even Cleveland..while Paul Byrd and Bettancourt go 20-9 again next year? Because I'm a White Sox fan, and I will rip or root for my team all day long. I can be objective and realize the minor leagues are in shambles and that they could very easily solve that by trading away the expensive core of players for younger pieces and start a rebuilding period. Instead, they are going to try and win within the next 2 years and then see a terrible dropoff in the next 5-7 years after that because they will almost certainly have quite a few immovable contracts down the road. Sox have a core of really good players...Cabrera, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Thome, Crede, Vazquez, Buehrle, Contreas, Jenks...and a bunch of good looking young players. If they get lucky and Gio comes up and goes 15-5...or Owens maintains a .340 OBP and steals 80? They could be every bit as good as any team in baseball. If I recall properly we are the only AL Central team to win the WS in the last 3 years. Crede and Contreras are really good players? Did you even watch the White Sox last year? And the thought of Gio Gonzalez going 15-5 next year - thanks for using wins BTW instead of a pitching stat that is actually telling of how well the pitcher actuallys pitches - is absolutely preposterous. And that World Series bulls*** line you put up is absolutely irrelevant to the White Sox and other teams' current states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:12 PM) Because I'm a White Sox fan, and I will rip or root for my team all day long. I can be objective and realize the minor leagues are in shambles and that they could very easily solve that by trading away the expensive core of players for younger pieces and start a rebuilding period. Instead, they are going to try and win within the next 2 years and then see a terrible dropoff in the next 5-7 years after that because they will almost certainly have quite a few immovable contracts down the road. Crede and Contreras are really good players? Did you even watch the White Sox last year? And the thought of Gio Gonzalez going 15-5 next year - thanks for using wins BTW instead of a pitching stat that is actually telling of how well the pitcher actuallys pitches - is absolutely preposterous. And that World Series bulls*** line you put up is absolutely irrelevant to the White Sox and other teams' current states. You make a lot of good points in your posts, wite. But who the f do you think you are that you respond to people so disrespectfully? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguy79 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Addition by subtraction...no more pods/cintron...can't get worse than watching Cintron... Liriano is the key determination on which team is better. But frankly many of the Twins offensive players are not good and with the loss of hunter they really need some pop. Are they going to be better after they turn over 3/5ths of their rotation and lose serious inning eaters like Santana/Silva likely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) You make a lot of good points in your posts, wite. But who the f do you think you are that you respond to people so disrespectfully? The Greek god Zeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:29 PM) The Greek god Zeus Oh, I was thinking maybe Bill Brasky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) Their staff? They've got Verlander/Bonderman/Miller/Robertson/Durbin? Who does that scare? We've got Buehrle/Vazquez/Contreras/Danks/Floyd -- who does that scare? Their offense also scored 200 more runs than ours did last season and they've added a huge offensive addition in Renteria. You're right, though, I'll heed your advice -- everything's peaches on the Southside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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