NO Trade Clause

[Marky Mark]

I think its time for us to gather around in a circle chanting "FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!"

[CWSGuy406]

I also don't recall Riske being good at all with the White Sox in 2006. I don't know how he put up good numbers with the White Sox because I was hodling my breath every single time I saw him come in to pitch. I recall him being mediocre to bad.

 

Let me just clarify a few things here:

 

- I'd be lying if I said I felt uber-comfortable when Riske was in the game for the Sox. That being said, he was the Sox' 4th option behind Jenks, MacDougal and Thorton. He was basically the bridge to Thorton and MacDougal, and I doubt you're going to find relievers who have been as consistent as Riske has been over the past several seasons. I also doubt you're going to find many middle relievers who have been as consistent as Riske has been. And I also find it funny that a lot of people seem to want to throw Riske's very good 2007 out the window. Again -- I know ERA isn't perfect, but unless he allowed a s***load of inherited runners to score, he probably would've been the Sox' second best reliever last year. At least we saved a couple million by not offering him arbitration, though.

 

- All I did was correct some factual errors in this thread. A poster said he had a declining K-rate, that's not true. It's not rising but it's certainly not declining. If you want a declining, take a look at the reliever we just gave $20 million guaranteed to.

 

- Stating it again, I don't think Riske is better than Linebrink. Frankly, I don't know and I don't think anyone else knows, either. But I have a hunch that Riske won't command four years guaranteed, a no-trade clause as well as $20 million. And I don't think it's worth it to find out if Linebrink is, in fact, worth it, when most signs are pointing to average-ness-to-mediocrity-to-bad ahead.

Edited November 29, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[joeynach]

I find it more strange the sox make a huge deal out of giving pitchers more than 3 years and have no problem giving linebrink and the 21 HRs he gave up last year in 160 IP a nice 4 year deal. I still like the signing cuz the pen is desperate for any dependable arm out there.

[palehose23]

Where can I buy the TV that you David Riske fans had because apparently he was Cy Riske when he took the bump for the Chisox in '06. My TV told me that he was a below average middle reliever that would give up long homeruns but I like what your TV told you much better.

 

Maybe in '08 that TV will show me that Jose Contreras fastball will be 95 again and his splitter will actually fall off the table- I got about 2K and I am heading to ABT electronics immediately.

 

 

Oops was that supposed to be in Green

[iamshack]

Well, I think there is a difference in what kind of innings these guys are pitching. There are "stressful" innings and "non-stressful" innings. If you ask any Indians, Red Sox, or White Sox fan how Riske does in stressful innings, you'll get the same answer. To quote from a favorite commercial of mine, he folds like a lawn chair. He does, however, seem to do fine in non-stressful innings where the game is not on the line.

 

I think many of his would-be suitors recognize that and therefore hesitate to give him big dollars...

[TLAK]

Well, I think there is a difference in what kind of innings these guys are pitching. There are "stressful" innings and "non-stressful" innings. If you ask any Indians, Red Sox, or White Sox fan how Riske does in stressful innings, you'll get the same answer. To quote from a favorite commercial of mine, he folds like a lawn chair. He does, however, seem to do fine in non-stressful innings where the game is not on the line.

 

I think many of his would-be suitors recognize that and therefore hesitate to give him big dollars...

Agree. Riske's value is in keeping the team close when it is down a couple runs. As soon as the game is tied or you get a lead he folds. Cleveland tried to close with him in '03-'04 and he got 13 saves in 25 opportunities. Life time he has 20 saves in 38 opps so he blows the lead about half the time.

 

The best measure is how his managers use him, 1-1, 0-0, 0-1, 4-8 save/opp since '04. Eric Wedge, Terry Francona, Ozzie Guillen and Buddy Bell all chose not to use him in save situations if they had an alternative.

 

He is a usefull part of winning team in that he can eat innings in games you are losing and preserve the front line guys for games you have a better chance of winning. He is not a first tier relief pitcher, but he can keep you in some games and you have better chance to come back than if you use, say a Dewon Day of 2007.

[29andPoplar]

You said he had a declining K-rate and the stats show you're wrong. Good enough for you? No, probably not, but please, it'd be greatly appreciated if you'd stop talking out of your ass about certain things. I call things like I see them, and when somebody says "so and so has a declining K-rate" and that's not true at all, I'm going to call it.

I've done nothing wrong. Did nothing wrong in the last thread that I 'got into it' with you and have done nothing wrong here. Quit whining and if you can't debate, don't try debating. You've been wrong and all I've done is called you on it, only to have you backtrack or use irrelevant trash.

 

Don't come to a gun-fight with a knife, pal.

 

I guess I have to explain this again, the know it all profane college kid doesn't comprehend.

 

I said he had a declining K rate and, follow me closely now because I'm not sure you have the ability to understand this ... He used to be over a strikeout per inning guy and he's not any more. Get it?

 

Apparantly you don't. Please go talk to a college girl or two instead of hanging around on message boards, it might ease your obvious frustration or whatever's bugging you, nit picker. You picked out the last three years, I looked at his entire career.

 

Now, as I've asked you more than once, if you insist on following me around picking arguments, go talk to another poster. It's not my fault a mod got on your back about your profanity and the tone of your responses and you've got an angry pill stuck in your throat.

[Dick Allen]

Riske has had the reputation of being a guy who gets very tight in pressure situations. In 2005 in over 55 appearances in middle relief for the Indians, he had zero holds. They insisted the Red Sox take him in the Crisp/Marte deal. The Red Sox had no problem discarding him and the White Sox didn't offer him arbitration because his numbers have looked a lot better than his work for the couple years leading up to that point, and it was way too risky to have him accept arbitration, and wind up having to pay him for those numbers. He's a guy a bad team should sign to a reasonable deal. He would probably do well in a situation with no pressure, and then deal him for prospects at the deadline to a desperate team that is willing to roll the dice.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Dick Allen

[29andPoplar]

Riske has had the reputation of being a guy who gets very tight in pressure situations. In 2005 in over 55 appearances in middle relief for the Indians, he had zero holds. They insisted the Red Sox take him in the Crisp/Marte deal. The Red Sox had no problem discarding him and the White Sox didn't offer him arbitration because his numbers have looked a lot better than his work for the couple years leading up to that point, and it was way too risky to have him accept arbitration, and wind up having to pay him for those numbers. He's a guy a bad team should sign to a reasonable deal. He would probably do well in a situation with no pressure, and then deal him for prospects at the deadline to a desperate team that is willing to roll the dice.

 

You said it a lot better than I did. Well stated. Maybe I should just copy your posts on certain subjects for clarity's sake.

[southsider2k5]

Riske has had the reputation of being a guy who gets very tight in pressure situations. In 2005 in over 55 appearances in middle relief for the Indians, he had zero holds. They insisted the Red Sox take him in the Crisp/Marte deal. The Red Sox had no problem discarding him and the White Sox didn't offer him arbitration because his numbers have looked a lot better than his work for the couple years leading up to that point, and it was way too risky to have him accept arbitration, and wind up having to pay him for those numbers. He's a guy a bad team should sign to a reasonable deal. He would probably do well in a situation with no pressure, and then deal him for prospects at the deadline to a desperate team that is willing to roll the dice.

 

Great post. Riske would probably be fine as a last guy out of the pen, but that is about it. We signed Linebrink to be the primary righthanded set up man. To compare the two guys, is apples and oranges, no matter what the statistics say.

[CWSGuy406]

I guess I have to explain this again, the know it all profane college kid doesn't comprehend.

 

You sure you're not like 15? Christ, whine whine whine. And boo-hoo, I called your posts bulls*** -- God forbid a swear! Go to WSI if you don't like swearing.

 

I said he had a declining K rate and, follow me closely now because I'm not sure you have the ability to understand this ... He used to be over a strikeout per inning guy and he's not any more. Get it?

 

Right, because what he did six years ago holds relevance to next season. Yeah, that makes sense. You're really shining in this thread.

 

Apparantly you don't. Please go talk to a college girl or two instead of hanging around on message boards, it might ease your obvious frustration or whatever's bugging you, nit picker.

 

My anger? What anger? You're the one who's got his panties in a bunch because (a) you got in a hissy-fit because of swearing (I repeat -- God forbid! Won't somebody think of the children?) and ( B ) you got your facts wrong.

 

Ahh, the typical "you're younger than me", old man argument. So let's see... that's now several red herring and ad hominem arguments you've made. I guess that happens when you don't have a f***ing clue what you're talking about.

Edited November 29, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[Marky Mark]

neat.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Yes, Linebrink is awesome in the "stressful innings" department. He's blown 26 out of 30 save opps. in his career. Riske could never compete with that.

[santo=dorf]

Riske has had the reputation of being a guy who gets very tight in pressure situations. In 2005 in over 55 appearances in middle relief for the Indians, he had zero holds. They insisted the Red Sox take him in the Crisp/Marte deal. The Red Sox had no problem discarding him and the White Sox didn't offer him arbitration because his numbers have looked a lot better than his work for the couple years leading up to that point, and it was way too risky to have him accept arbitration, and wind up having to pay him for those numbers. He's a guy a bad team should sign to a reasonable deal. He would probably do well in a situation with no pressure, and then deal him for prospects at the deadline to a desperate team that is willing to roll the dice.

Should I just bump the old thread I made a link to a few weeks ago?

 

The reason why Riske didn't have any holds, a garbage stat by the way, was because of Wickman, Rhodes, Howry, and Betancourt pitching above their average game. Even Cabrera and Miller had sub 2 ERA's for the Indians in 2005.

 

..and how big of a risk is it to pay Riske arbitration when he's coming off a season making $1.8 million. This isn't like Frank making $8 million or Maggs making $14 milliion, it's chump change.

 

[Kalapse]

Yes, Linebrink is awesome in the "stressful innings" department. He's blown 26 out of 30 save opps. in his career. Riske could never compete with that.

26 out of 30 is actually pretty damn good. A blown hold goes down as a blown save, so in reality Linebrink has 26 BLSV in 148 HLD/SV opportunities which is an 82.5% success rate. Go ahead and compare Linebrink's 26/148 (82.5%) over 442.7 IP to some of the other great setup men in the game today. He fairs well.

 

Riske for the record has 18 BLSV in 90 HLD/SV opps (80%) over 431 IP.

 

Scot Shields who is widely considered to be the best/most consistent setup man in the game has a career 86.5% success rate with 21 BLSV in 155 HLD/SV opp in 570 IP.

[RockRaines]

Hilarious that people who actually watched riske pitch are saying we should have kept him. He's attrotious, you won't hear a single indians, red sox, or rational white sox fan in favor of david riske. He has misleading stats which make him appear better than he is. He's a garbage arm, made to eat innings when you don't care about inherited runners and your team is down a bunch.

[29andPoplar]

You sure you're not like 15? Christ, whine whine whine. And boo-hoo, I called your posts bulls*** -- God forbid a swear! Go to WSI if you don't like swearing.

Right, because what he did six years ago holds relevance to next season. Yeah, that makes sense. You're really shining in this thread.

My anger? What anger? You're the one who's got his panties in a bunch because (a) you got in a hissy-fit because of swearing (I repeat -- God forbid! Won't somebody think of the children?) and ( B ) you got your facts wrong.

 

Ahh, the typical "you're younger than me", old man argument. So let's see... that's now several red herring and ad hominem arguments you've made. I guess that happens when you don't have a f***ing clue what you're talking about.

 

Others have amplified my points on Riske so no need to rehash that.

 

However, all your explanations and huff-and-puff blowhard defenses bear out what you show on this website every day ... you've got a bad case of Angry Little Man syndrome.

 

So, Angry Little Man, you might want to chat it up with some college girls to solve that obvious frustration problem of yours. After they inevitably shoot you down, you're on your own. Sucks to be you.

[StrangeSox]

I guess I have to explain this again, the know it all profane college kid doesn't comprehend.

 

I said he had a declining K rate and, follow me closely now because I'm not sure you have the ability to understand this ... He used to be over a strikeout per inning guy and he's not any more. Get it?

 

To be fair, there's a difference between being down from levels 5-6 years ago and declining. One implies lower-but-stable production while the other implies continuing degredation.

[29andPoplar]

To be fair, there's a difference between being down from levels 5-6 years ago and declining. One implies lower-but-stable production while the other implies continuing degredation.

 

His strikeout levels have declined from several years ago as I stated. He used to be a strikeout per inning guy, he's not now, it has declined. A decline is a decline. Nothing implied.

 

I guess I should have just said I don't think Riske is much good, emphasized it was my OPINION, and left it at that. Certain posters like to camp out on stats and pick arguments. Others have amplified the general point very well.

[CWSGuy406]

So, Angry Little Man, you might want to chat it up with some college girls to solve that obvious frustration problem of yours. After they inevitably shoot you down, you're on your own. Sucks to be you.

 

Hah, that's wonderful. Your posts... they're soooo reminiscent of this other guy that used to post here. You know, attacking people instead of the debate at hand. I don't seem to recall what happened to that guy. Err...

 

Dots.... connecting.

[iamshack]

Hah, that's wonderful. Your posts... they're soooo reminiscent of this other guy that used to post here. You know, attacking people instead of the debate at hand. I don't seem to recall what happened to that guy. Err...

 

Dots.... connecting.

 

Are you not the same poster whose critique last night of one of my posts began with the phrase "That's dumb as hell."?

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Me thinks y'all may want to consider cooling it off some...

[iamshack]

Me thinks y'all may want to consider cooling it off some...

 

Yeah, there is nothing worthwhile coming out of this thread any longer.

[CWSGuy406]

Are you not the same poster whose critique last night of one of my posts began with the phrase "That's dumb as hell."?

 

Yeah, that was rather obnoxious of me -- I apologize for the unneccesary hostility -- but that wasn't an attack on the poster. I didn't say "You're dumb as hell", I said "that", indicating the argument.

 

Others have amplified my points on Riske so no need to rehash that.

 

However, all your explanations and huff-and-puff blowhard defenses bear out what you show on this website every day ... you've got a bad case of Angry Little Man syndrome.

 

So, Angry Little Man, you might want to chat it up with some college girls to solve that obvious frustration problem of yours. After they inevitably shoot you down, you're on your own. Sucks to be you.

 

Also, mods, can we get a 'personal-attack check' on this post? Maybe it is an attack, maybe it isn't, but can we get a ruling here?

 

And if so, wouldn't this be like the fifth time this happ-

 

Oh wow, clumsy me. I forgot said poster just registered here a couple of months ago. My goodness...

Edited November 29, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[Kalapse]

Next snarky comment in this thread will earn said poster an internet castration and keep in mind I don't play around when it comes to the removal of internet testicles.