Williams: "Linebrink + Cabrera = 1 Jon Garland."

[TheBigHurt]

Reported on SportsNite. Just wondering what everyone's reaction might be to this quote. I like both of these players, but who is going to be starting next year in his place? Floyd??? Gio? Gio I could see, but is he ready? I can see it turning into another Danks situation. And what happened to Kenny's philosophy of not trading (good) pitching for position players?

[Balta1701]

Reported on SportsNite. Just wondering what everyone's reaction might be to this quote. I like both of these players, but who is going to be starting next year in his place? Floyd??? Gio? Gio I could see, but is he ready? I can see it turning into another Danks situation. And what happened to Kenny's philosophy of not trading (good) pitching for position players?

In terms of salary, he's right, Linebrink + Cabrera = Garland.

 

Contreras, Danks, and Floyd obviously get the first shot at the starting rotation next year. If one of them falters, then I imagine we're going to start going down the AAA list, and it is a fairly long one: Haeger, Broadway, Sisco, Gio, Egbert, in some order depending on performance this year.

[TheBigHurt]

In terms of salary, he's right, Linebrink + Cabrera = Garland.

 

Contreras, Danks, and Floyd obviously get the first shot at the starting rotation next year. If one of them falters, then I imagine we're going to start going down the AAA list, and it is a fairly long one: Haeger, Broadway, Sisco, Gio, Egbert, in some order depending on performance this year.

 

Yeah, based on the past, that ought to work very well!

[SnB]

I vote for bringing back danny wright and jon rauch.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, based on the past, that ought to work very well!

Because one set of young 5th starter candidates failed...all potential 5th starter candidates are forever doomed to fail.

[TheBigHurt]

Because one set of young 5th starter candidates failed...all potential 5th starter candidates are forever doomed to fail.

 

I'm not saying that. Just understand that the idea makes me nervous as hell, as I've sure it makes MANY others nervous as well. We are talking about Contreras, Danks, AND another possible AAA baller. Try telling me that doesn't scare you a little.

[Balta1701]

I'm not saying that. Just understand that the idea makes me nervous as hell, as I've sure it makes MANY others nervous as well. We are talking about Contreras, Danks, AND another possible AAA baller. Try telling me that doesn't scare you a little.

Let's put it this way. Last year, we came into the season with a "more sure thing" rotation than this year, and we wound up with what, 70 wins?

 

We're in a position where we if we play it safe, we might improve to 75 wins just off of injury related luck.

 

The only way we're going to get better next year is to gamble in several spots and have those gambles work. Given that otherwise, we'd be spending near $45 million on our rotation, and the only place in our minors where we have both depth and talent is starting pitching, we may as well put one of our gambles there.

 

If it doesn't pay off, then what have we lost? If Floyd falls apart, then what have we lost? 2 months of time for a 5th starter tryout, and we wind up with a better draft pick next year to start rebuilding the system.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

I think the problem with everybody's thoughts here is the idea that Kenny actually has a plan.

[TheBigHurt]

Let's put it this way. Last year, we came into the season with a "more sure thing" rotation than this year, and we wound up with what, 70 wins?

 

We're in a position where we if we play it safe, we might improve to 75 wins just off of injury related luck.

 

The only way we're going to get better next year is to gamble in several spots and have those gambles work. Given that otherwise, we'd be spending near $45 million on our rotation, and the only place in our minors where we have both depth and talent is starting pitching, we may as well put one of our gambles there.

 

If it doesn't pay off, then what have we lost? If Floyd falls apart, then what have we lost? 2 months of time for a 5th starter tryout, and we wind up with a better draft pick next year to start rebuilding the system.

 

I give you that. And on a side note, I'm actually excited about getting Orlando Cabrera. I just don't think Cabrera and Linebrink even together can account for the problems having a good starter in your rotation can solve, especially with THIS team with the condition it's in right now.

 

 

I think the problem with everybody's thoughts here is the idea that Kenny actually has a plan.

 

LOL.

[DBAHO]

Well I hope if we can trade Uribe for a prospect, that may open up some more $$$ to either improve CF, or use towards a SP such as Colon, Jennings or even Colon on a 1 year deal.

 

Right now the rotation's pegged as Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks and Floyd. Obviously the last 3 are huge question marks, but some people are bullish on Jose rebounding (I am not one of them), while at least Danks showed a bit early in the season and Floyd late.

 

But we do have options. At least I think the options we have at AAA in Egbert, Broadway and Gonzalez are better than the Danny Wright's back from a few years ago.

[santo=dorf]

I think the problem with everybody's thoughts here is the idea that Kenny actually has a plan.

Sure he does. Too bad he's down to option "E" at every position.

[29andPoplar]

I think the problem with everybody's thoughts here is the idea that Kenny actually has a plan.

 

Yes I suppose you're right. It's all for show.

 

Just like the re-signing of Buehrle.

 

Again ... it is best to wait and see.

[BaseballNick]

Sure he does. Too bad he's down to option "E" at every position.

 

 

Why is everyone having a hissy fit? It's November; not April. The second round of GM meetings hasn't even started yet! If you really think we should have outbid LAA and given Hunter somewhere around $100million then there's exhibit A as to why you're not the GM of this team. KW already added two pretty good players at the expense of a pitcher who was unspectacular (10-13) last year, in the walk year of his contract, and who publicly admitted that he has a knot in his shoulder which bothers him when he throws. Pitchers who have shoulder issues and who have logged 850IPs over the last four seasons are an extended DL stint waiting to happen.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Why is everyone having a hissy fit? It's November; not April. The second round of GM meetings hasn't even started yet! If you really think we should have outbid LAA and given Hunter somewhere around $100million then there's exhibit A as to why you're not the GM of this team. KW already added two pretty good players at the expense of a pitcher who was unspectacular (10-13) last year, in the walk year of his contract, and who publicly admitted that he has a knot in his shoulder which bothers him when he throws. Pitchers who have shoulder issues and who have logged 850IPs over the last four seasons are an extended DL stint waiting to happen.

^^^^^

[fathom]

Why is everyone having a hissy fit? It's November; not April. The second round of GM meetings hasn't even started yet! If you really think we should have outbid LAA and given Hunter somewhere around $100million then there's exhibit A as to why you're not the GM of this team. KW already added two pretty good players at the expense of a pitcher who was unspectacular (10-13) last year, in the walk year of his contract, and who publicly admitted that he has a knot in his shoulder which bothers him when he throws. Pitchers who have shoulder issues and who have logged 850IPs over the last four seasons are an extended DL stint waiting to happen.

 

KW thought he would get Hunter, plain and simple. Also, Orlando Cabrera is in his walk year, and sounds like he has no intention of resigning with the Sox before the season.

Edited November 29, 2007 by fathom

[29andPoplar]

KW thought he would get Hunter, plain and simple. Also, Orlando Cabrera is in his walk year, and sounds like he has no intention of resigning with the Sox before the season.

 

Ok, great. And what does that have to do with it being November vs. April?

 

Does anyone remember all their proclamations from around the time Buehrle re-signed? After just about everyone here was sure he wouldn't?

[Balta1701]

KW thought he would get Hunter, plain and simple. Also, Orlando Cabrera is in his walk year, and sounds like he has no intention of resigning with the Sox before the season.

Well, then we get 2 draft picks when Cabrera walks, and everyone celebrates the return of the clubhouse feel we had in 05 when we give Uribe a 5/$75 contract next year after he puts up a .900+ OPS next year and everyone suddenly forgets about the mediocre years he had before that.

[Chet Lemon]

We are talking about Contreras, Danks, AND another possible AAA baller. Try telling me that doesn't scare you a little.

 

I have shared your sentiment as well since the Garland trade.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I have shared your sentiment as well since the Garland trade.

 

When you're coming off a 70 win season, playing it safe doesn't seem like that safe of an option.

[BaseballNick]

KW thought he would get Hunter, plain and simple. Also, Orlando Cabrera is in his walk year, and sounds like he has no intention of resigning with the Sox before the season.

 

 

Cabrera > Uribe talent-wise and attitude-wise. This team was in such desperate need of leadership, it was sickening. I always thought that aspect of the game was overrated until I witnessed last year's team.

 

Linebrink > The crap we threw out there last year. That too is plain and simple.

 

Also, KW had zero intent on resigning JG with the likes of Gio, Broadway, Floyd, etc. looming at 2.5% of JG's salary. Cabrera being signed to an extension is much more likely, seeing as we have no legit prospects ready to step in at SS.

[greg775]

Our starting rotation is KC Royals-like right now.

Assuming Jose will continue his decline as he approaches his 50th birthday, we've got Mark B, and Vaz,

plus Jose and 2 young guys who will likely be 5-inning pitchers max.

I don't know how to get such pitcher but we need a Paul Byrd/Tim Wakefield/Kenny Rogers type guy to put in there.

We need another dependable veteran not named Jose Contreras.

Also obviously Linebrink must be good. I'm hopeful there.

I hope I never see MacDougal again, but I could stomach giving him a chance more than Sisco, Masset

and Thornton.

I guess I could stomach Thornton being a specialist pitching to one lefty batter.

 

KW has a lot of work still to do.

IMO ... Our rotation is very weak right now.

Edited November 29, 2007 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

Ok, great. And what does that have to do with it being November vs. April?

 

Does anyone remember all their proclamations from around the time Buehrle re-signed? After just about everyone here was sure he wouldn't?

 

Not to mention all of the sources who said Hunter was signing with Texas...

[29andPoplar]

Not to mention all of the sources who said Hunter was signing with Texas...

 

Looking back on it, Cowley's article was spot on.

 

Hunter confirms the White Sox made a very strong pitch and he was leaning this way. Cowley said it looked good for a deal with the Sox unless some team came in last minute and blew the offer away. Enter LAA.

[sircaffey]

A statement like that can insinuate that KW doesn't get complete value for his player. In this case Garland. Like he's not worried about getting everything he can for Garland because he knows he'll signed Linebrink with the excess cash. You traded Garland for Cabrera. We should not look at the trade any differently. You didn't get Linebrink in the deal. Same for Carlos Lee. You got Pods, Viz, and a scrub. You did not get AJ or Iguchi in the deal. Worry about getting maximum value for your players. Perhaps it was maximum value, I don't know, but stop talking like that. Like we're some low budget wretch of a team.

[G&T]

A statement like that can insinuate that KW doesn't get complete value for his player. In this case Garland. Like he's not worried about getting everything he can for Garland because he knows he'll signed Linebrink with the excess cash. You traded Garland for Cabrera. We should not look at the trade any differently. You didn't get Linebrink in the deal. Same for Carlos Lee. You got Pods, Viz, and a scrub. You did not get AJ or Iguchi in the deal. Worry about getting maximum value for your players. Perhaps it was maximum value, I don't know, but stop talking like that. Like we're some low budget wretch of a team.

 

That's not really true. He got money in place of another player. Why should he automatically take another player that he doesn't want when he can use the money to sign a guy he does want? If the choice was between $1.5 million and a prospect that probably won't crack the bigs, or won't contribute as much as Linebrink, then he did get max value.