NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314111,00.html Followers of everyone's "religion of peace" are conducting mass protests in Sudan calling for the execution of a British teacher for simply naming a teddy bear "Muhammed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Meanwhile, all the parents of these kids are all quoted saying they aren't upset about it. Again, Nuke, I know its real easy for you to label an entire religion of a billion people as evil, but its just not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) Meanwhile, all the parents of these kids are all quoted saying they aren't upset about it. Again, Nuke, I know its real easy for you to label an entire religion of a billion people as evil, but its just not reality. OK, maybe only a half billion are evil then. (half green, if it were available!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 10:40 AM) OK, maybe only a half billion are evil then. (half green, if it were available!) Even if its 10%, that's still 100 million, and I'd agree that's a scary number. I am not dismissing that there is a significant, and growing, extremist minority using Islam as a banner for their own hatred. I just bristle when ANY religion is labeled en masse as being evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juddling Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) pics of 'peaceful' protest' Some pics from one of the protests.....if i was the teacher or her family...i'd be really worried that the paper put her pic inside. i hope nothing happens to the family. Edited November 30, 2007 by juddling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 while we may not agree with the punishment, isnt it the individuals personal responsibility to understand and obey the laws of the land in which they are in? it's ok to sell marijuana in amsterdam. so is it fair for someone to come to the US, sell it, and then complain about the punishment they receive? as american's (or in this case Europeans) you do not have a golden ticket to travel the world and dis-obey other countries laws and regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) while we may not agree with the punishment, isnt it the individuals personal responsibility to understand and obey the laws of the land in which they are in? it's ok to sell marijuana in amsterdam. so is it fair for someone to come to the US, sell it, and then complain about the punishment they receive? as american's (or in this case Europeans) you do not have a golden ticket to travel the world and dis-obey other countries laws and regulations. OK wait... seriously, are you saying that this teacher deserved to be arrested and prosecuted because she allowed these children (Muslim children, by the way) to name a teddy bear Mohammed? You must be joking. I've travelled a lot, been to about 20 different countries. Yes, you do what you can to respect that culture. You don't disrespect places of worship, or insult people's beliefs. But this was absolutely none of those things. There is no justification for her being treated this way. Its a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) while we may not agree with the punishment, isnt it the individuals personal responsibility to understand and obey the laws of the land in which they are in? it's ok to sell marijuana in amsterdam. so is it fair for someone to come to the US, sell it, and then complain about the punishment they receive? as american's (or in this case Europeans) you do not have a golden ticket to travel the world and dis-obey other countries laws and regulations. Like the umteen millions here illegally whose first act is breaking our laws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(Cknolls @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 01:29 PM) Like the umteen millions here illegally whose first act is breaking our laws? Pssh, for the 14 millionth time, they are bettering their lives and they do good things for our economy so its ok. Seriously though, if this sort of crap doesn't show how ass-backwards these people really are... And this is difficult. There's obviously a difference between extremist muslims that strap bombs to their chests - thats a small minority. But this sort of intolerant absolutist stance isn't a small number. Think a year or two back when someone (in the Netherlands?) had the newspaper cartoon of Muhammed. A lot of Muslims went ape s*** over it. Britian should swarm in and take her back to the homeland. If Sudan wants to say anything about it, Britian should pimp slap them and say "welcome to the 21st century you intolerant bunch of boobs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 11:48 AM) Britian should swarm in and take her back to the homeland. If Sudan wants to say anything about it, Britian should pimp slap them and say "welcome to the 21st century you intolerant bunch of boobs." Because clearly...this is going to convince these people that the modern, pluralistic way is better than their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Amazing. We have a thread discussing an event symbolizing the problem with extremism... and already we have some people indicting an entire religion for it, and others on the other side justifying this ridiculous action. No wonder this country is having a hard time finding a political middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 02:00 PM) Because clearly...this is going to convince these people that the modern, pluralistic way is better than their way. And clearly we should be just as extreme and allow intolerant countries to execute people for something like calling a teddy bear Muhammed. I'm not saying lets drop some nukes and blow the country to bits. What's wrong with being firm with the Sudanese government? Cut a deal behind close doors - let her go or we stop funding your poor ass country. I love these types of debates because in this instance I firmly believe Bush's mantra of you're either with us or against us. If you believe in a fundamental ideal, like freedom (of speech, religion, etc), it makes no sense to me to "allow" other countries to not follow that fundamental ideal. It's one thing if a backwards ass country wants to do it within their borders with their own people (though even then I think we all agree there are times to step in), but when it involves one of your own citizens I see no problem with putting your foot down to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 02:15 PM) And clearly we should be just as extreme and allow intolerant countries to execute people for something like calling a teddy bear Muhammed. I'm not saying lets drop some nukes and blow the country to bits. What's wrong with being firm with the Sudanese government? Cut a deal behind close doors - let her go or we stop funding your poor ass country. I love these types of debates because in this instance I firmly believe Bush's mantra of you're either with us or against us. If you believe in a fundamental ideal, like freedom (of speech, religion, etc), it makes no sense to me to "allow" other countries to not follow that fundamental ideal. It's one thing if a backwards ass country wants to do it within their borders with their own people (though even then I think we all agree there are times to step in), but when it involves one of your own citizens I see no problem with putting your foot down to stop it. While I don't at all see this as "with us or against us", I would support an operation to get her out. For that matter, I think a good response would be to not just pull her out, but pull some other ties back as well, making it clear that such a reaction is not tolerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) While I don't at all see this as "with us or against us", I would support an operation to get her out. For that matter, I think a good response would be to not just pull her out, but pull some other ties back as well, making it clear that such a reaction is not tolerable. I think a cutback in ties is entirely appropriate. Possibly trade sanctions, no idea how much trade is left with that country though. But here's my counterpoint question...what happens if some guard resists an operation to pull this person out? How much bloodshed would you tolerate? 1 death? 10? 100? Edited November 30, 2007 by Balta1701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Wow, and all this just because the kids wanted to name a toy bear after a legendary boxer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) I think a cutback in ties is entirely appropriate. Possibly trade sanctions, no idea how much trade is left with that country though. But here's my counterpoint question...what happens if some guard resists an operation to pull this person out? How much bloodshed would you tolerate? 1 death? 10? 100? Any operation to rescue someone in a situation like that, IMO, has no choice but to go all the way with the hardware in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 12:30 PM) Any operation to rescue someone in a situation like that, IMO, has no choice but to go all the way with the hardware in hand. And that is exactly why I don't think such an operation is sound/justified. Going into a foreign country in arms? It could turn out well (Israel raid on Entebbe), but it's probably more likely, even with technology and so on, to turn into a Desert One or a Battle of Mogadishu, depending on what you send in. If they seriously want to try this person, I can't see how a military solution is the appropriate response. There have to be other diplomatic options, if we care enough to use them. Usually though, we don't, because we like money and that's more important to us. (IIRC, China has thought to be one of the key players with Sudan in terms of stopping the Darfur mess. But we can't use, you know, our trade with China to encourage them to step in, because that'd cost us money.) Edited November 30, 2007 by Balta1701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) Wow, and all this just because the kids wanted to name a toy bear after a legendary boxer... lol, zing! It's a "with us or against us" in the since that we view as a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT the ability to say what we want and practice religion how we want. If it's so fundamental, then it's entirely against our way of thinking if we allow countries to punish our own for it. I'm not saying our way is the best way and we should force everyone in the world to do what we do. Obviously that's not right. But when you have a fundamental belief and the issue involves one of your own then you damn well better do what you can to defend those ideals from intolerant boobs like these Sudanese people appear to be. I'm all for trade sanctions, or economic sanctions, or whatever. It's absolutely ridiculous to condone such activity. The PM of Britain "assured" her family that Britian is "doing all it can" to free her and bring her home. That's bulls***. She's sitting in a jail cell somewhere with her life being threatened. "Doing all it can" means a call to the Prez of Sudan with severe threats if a hair on her head is touched. Edited November 30, 2007 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juddling Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 08:20 PM) I think a cutback in ties is entirely appropriate. Possibly trade sanctions, no idea how much trade is left with that country though. But here's my counterpoint question...what happens if some guard resists an operation to pull this person out? How much bloodshed would you tolerate? 1 death? 10? 100? We could offer to give them back Manute Bol for the teacher!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) While I don't at all see this as "with us or against us", I would support an operation to get her out. For that matter, I think a good response would be to not just pull her out, but pull some other ties back as well, making it clear that such a reaction is not tolerable. You mean hypothetically? As in, if she were actually going to be executed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) whoa, what a bunch of psychos. angry mobs are out to kill her for naming a Teddy bear ? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article531449.ece Edited December 1, 2007 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 It's going to be difficult for this lady to live a normal life after this incident. Her face is plastered all over the news. I don't know how you walk down a street by yourself or visit a grocery store without looking over your shoulder. We've seen prior examples of how Islamic extremists hold grudges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 09:00 PM) whoa, what a bunch of psychos. angry mobs are out to kill her for naming a Teddy bear ? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article531449.ece No, for allowing 7-year old Muslim children to name a teddy bear. Even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 30, 2007 -> 08:11 PM) No, for allowing 7-year old Muslim children to name a teddy bear. Even better. Im surprised these Islamic thugs aren't out demanding the kids in the class be killed because they have been "tainted" or something lame like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 anyone know how many people have been found guilty of this crime? anyone here (or in the media) actually care before it was a european who broke the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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