Fantl916 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Just a question for those who care to give an opinion... But now that the Tigers seem absolutely loaded does anyone agree with me that maybe the White Sox should change directions a bit. Kenny and management have said that they want to win now, but it seems that after that trade that "on paper" they are well behind the Tigers, and I think theyre still behind the Indians... Is it time we shift directions a bit and go to the Angles with Konerko and get some quality young talent? then do the same with Crede, Thomse (if he'll wiave his no trade clause), and maybe the likes of Aj or Dye if we can get quality in return? Maybe Im just bummed after watching the Tigers pull off that blockbuster... their lineup is better than the Yankees or Red Sox by a ton IMO... Granderson, Polanco, Cabrera, Magz, Sheff, Guillen, Renteria, Pudge, and J. Jones... i mean wow... thats monstrous... If we cannot realistically put ourselves in position to make the playoffs i think we need to start going after young talent or some big guns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Fantl916 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:24 PM) Just a question for those who care to give an opinion... But now that the Tigers seem absolutely loaded does anyone agree with me that maybe the White Sox should change directions a bit. Kenny and management have said that they want to win now, but it seems that after that trade that "on paper" they are well behind the Tigers, and I think theyre still behind the Indians... Is it time we shift directions a bit and go to the Angles with Konerko and get some quality young talent? then do the same with Crede, Thomse (if he'll wiave his no trade clause), and maybe the likes of Aj or Dye if we can get quality in return? Maybe Im just bummed after watching the Tigers pull off that blockbuster... their lineup is better than the Yankees or Red Sox by a ton IMO... Granderson, Polanco, Cabrera, Magz, Sheff, Guillen, Renteria, Pudge, and J. Jones... i mean wow... thats monstrous... If we cannot realistically put ourselves in position to make the playoffs i think we need to start going after young talent or some big guns... 2008 Playoffs American League NYY BOS DET LAA book it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(joesaiditstrue @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:26 PM) 2008 Playoffs American League NYY BOS DET LAA book it I don't know which one it will be, but just by random chance, I'll give you big odds that at least 1 of those 4 teams won't make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 No, I don't think so. The best teams on paper aren't always the best teams. Detroit's pitching is below average. Cleveland is still a better team at the moment, so we should still be focused on what it takes to beat them imo. I don't think we are that far away in talent. I think most people here look at our team through subjective eyes which are still jaded because of last year. People need to keep in mind that everything went wrong last year and that's not likely to happen again. If we solidify our pitching staff, sign Jones/Rowand/Fuku, and some of our kids have good years we can easily be the best in the AL central. If not, then we can blow it up after three months of losing. I think its worth the diminishing return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpweiner Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yeah, how those teams are set up right now, I'd put CLE ahead of the Yanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 After hearing Boston may get Santana WITHOUT giving up either Ellsbury or Bulcholz makes me wonder if baseball isn't just a big racket now. I am fine with a philosophical change. No way we beat Detroit next year and no way we beat Boston either. There isn't ANYTHING that can be done to put us in the same stratosphere with those two teams. That said, we should just retool with young players...go out next year and win 75 games (which we'll do anyway) and at least build for the future. By the time the young guys are ready to challange Detroit and Boston would have 'run their course'. Right now, I have positively no hope there will be post-season baseball in Chicago's southside next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I have lost all faith in this man........does he know what he is doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) I have lost all faith in this man........does he know what he is doing? *1/3 of the board* "YES!" *1/3 of the board* "NO!" *1/3 of the board* "Who?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 What would you have done to get Miggy Cabrera instead? Would you give up DLS, Gio, Fields, Danks and Floyd for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) After hearing Boston may get Santana WITHOUT giving up either Ellsbury or Bulcholz makes me wonder if baseball isn't just a big racket now. I am fine with a philosophical change. No way we beat Detroit next year and no way we beat Boston either. There isn't ANYTHING that can be done to put us in the same stratosphere with those two teams. That said, we should just retool with young players...go out next year and win 75 games (which we'll do anyway) and at least build for the future. By the time the young guys are ready to challange Detroit and Boston would have 'run their course'. Right now, I have positively no hope there will be post-season baseball in Chicago's southside next year. Seriously, this ESPN Boston love fest is disturbing. I say ESPN will eventually ruin baseball if Gammonds and others aren't gone soon. Everytime Boston and their prospects come up they go from journalist to fan in a matter of seconds. They get all gitty like little girls about who is next and honest to god, I think Owners and front office people believe it. Ellsbury to me is so overrated. He is Johnny Damon. Lester has overcome his problems and no disrespect to him is intended when I say he is overrated. Even Bucholz to me is overrated. If it wasn't for his no-hit bid this season he would be in a Johan deal. Why they would even consider the Sox over the Yanks is crazy to me. Phil Hughes is elite. Lester, Lowrie, etc..are not. Melky Cabrera is overrated a little in my book but even he is better then Ellsbury, and you would be getting him ontop of Hughes. It's just mind blowing. The Red Sox can scout. I will give them that. They also have the money to draft top 10 talent when it falls to them because of contracts and they also seem to lose quality players every year to FA so they get the compensation picks. Why do they??? Cuz they spend in FA. That said, why does everyone drink that organizations Koolaid? Every year it is someone knew. Where is the next big thing Craig Hansen, or Brandon Moss? How about my personal favorite Seung Song. Tony Blanco, Brad Baker. Big swingin Dernell Stenson was there stud of the future for like my high school life. I have mentioned Casey Fossum. There is more, I swear it. All of these guys were better then anyone elses prospects if you would believe espn. It's a joke. Every team has failed prospects but if you look at their track record since even like 2000. Outside of Papelbon, Han Ram (who prior to trade was slipping in Gammonds eyes I recall) and maybe Pedroia? They are much more common to fail but teams still keeping buying into them. It's bad and annoying me more then ever with this Johan talk following a WS title. Edited December 5, 2007 by Chombi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 No -he's overmatched by other GM's It would appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The Garland trade really pisses me off right now given how the other SP on the market are fetching multiple top prospects. And we only got a 33 year old shortstop for a good but not great SP??? Seems to me that either KW got fleeced or there's something with Garland's shoulder that we don't know about and we only got Cabrera for him because the Angels knew they were taking a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:15 PM) What would you have done to get Miggy Cabrera instead? Would you give up DLS, Gio, Fields, Danks and Floyd for him? I have no idea, as a paying fan i look for results and let him make the decisions. Quentin, Linebrink and Cabrera are good starts, we needs the power play now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) No -he's overmatched by other GM's It would appear. then we need a changing of the guards before our chances for the next 10 years are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 No, you gotta hit in this division-so, we cant have guys like Richar, and Owens playing now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Not defending the Garland trade, but besides the Santana talks obviously and the Willis deal (Miggy's the main part, and would have cost Maybin and Miller minimum), how many trades have there been for SP's bringing back top prospects? It's only superior SP's such as Haren, Bedard etc. that are being talked about as bringing back some real top prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I have a theory that a prospect is just a prospect till he is producing in the pro's. For every Tim Lincecum there is a Scott Ruffcorn...and then you get your late 50th round gems with our Buerhle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I'm what you'd call a Kenny hater but I find it baffling that anyone would choose this moment to lose patience with him. He's made a number of questionable moves over the years IMO so I can't understand why the final straw would be failing to make a move that might not have even have been within his means. Completely gutting what's left of the farm system for a player who might cost $20+ million to resign in two years time doesn't seem like a slam dunk to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:20 PM) No, you gotta hit in this division-so, we cant have guys like Richar, and Owens playing now Oh that's just bull. We can't have guys like Richar playing why? Because he's a rookie? We need veterans at every position to keep up? The other teams, like Cleveland, Minny, and yes, Detroit, are good teams because they've taken talented youngsters exactly like Richar and given them room to adapt to the big league game. Would you say that Cleveland can't compete in this division because they stuck with guys like Garko, A. Cabrera, and Franklin Gutierrez and those guys will never hit because they're too young? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) No -he's overmatched by other GM's It would appear. The GMs themselves (do they manage to shout their demands in a more convincing fashion), or by the prospects in other teams' systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:18 PM) I have no idea, as a paying fan i look for results and let him make the decisions. Quentin, Linebrink and Cabrera are good starts, we needs the power play now. Ok so those 3 guys are good starts. So does that mean he's doing a horrible job and fooled everyone right now? No. Quentin gives us a LF we control for 4-5 seasons, and he projects well. Linebrink albeit I don't like the signing, should be fairly reliable out of the pen. Upgrade on Mac and Thornton. Cabrera replaces Uribe, which for me is a HUGE relief. So it's a start, and obviously he still has a lot to do. Holes at CF, back end of rotation and the pen. But if we signed Torii Hunter for 5 years @90M, would you be happy with that (the big power play), or would you be complaining "Oh no, we overpayed for Hunter, KW you suck etc."? Basically so far it's been Quentin + Linebrink + Cabrera for Garland and Chris Carter. 3 major league pieces for 1, that should help this team next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Jeremy @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:22 PM) I'm what you'd call a Kenny hater but I find it baffling that anyone would choose this moment to lose patience with him. He's made a number of questionable moves over the years IMO so I can't understand why the final straw would be failing to make a move that might not have even have been within his means. Completely gutting what's left of the farm system for a player who might cost $20+ million to resign in two years time doesn't seem like a slam dunk to me. Im sorry but how many of our wondeful farm was part of the 2005 team?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Jeremy @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) I'm what you'd call a Kenny hater but I find it baffling that anyone would choose this moment to lose patience with him. He's made a number of questionable moves over the years IMO so I can't understand why the final straw would be failing to make a move that might not have even have been within his means. Completely gutting what's left of the farm system for a player who might cost $20+ million to resign in two years time doesn't seem like a slam dunk to me. The guy is a future HOF, who is only 24 years old, and would just abso. mash at the Cell, while our best prospect in DLS looks to have #1 stuff, but many scouts like him more as a bullpen arm, please give me Miggy over our whole system. Its too bad, if we couldve gotten him, we wouldve been able to retool in the draft with our high pick (and if we dropped the slot bonus bs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:25 PM) Ok so those 3 guys are good starts. So does that mean he's doing a horrible job and fooled everyone right now? No. Quentin gives us a LF we control for 4-5 seasons, and he projects well. Linebrink albeit I don't like the signing, should be fairly reliable out of the pen. Upgrade on Mac and Thornton. Cabrera replaces Uribe, which for me is a HUGE relief. So it's a start, and obviously he still has a lot to do. Holes at CF, back end of rotation and the pen. But if we signed Torii Hunter for 5 years @90M, would you be happy with that (the big power play), or would you be complaining "Oh no, we overpayed for Hunter, KW you suck etc."? Basically so far it's been Quentin + Linebrink + Cabrera for Garland and Chris Carter. 3 major league pieces for 1, that should help this team next season. i would not be complaining at all, and i would be very happy. To see my team go for it and stop making blathering excuses for once would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The Rick Hahn era can't come soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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