Do we need a philosophical change?

[RockRaines]

was it really necessary to open yet another thread like this?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

yes, kw is toast.

[Melissa1334]

seasons over we might as well just give up and not even watch because its not likely that we can get lucky and everyone has career years

^^^^^

whole different story if we had gotten hunter and miggy. we dont have a chance against ny, bos, at winning our division.. i just dont see whos left out there that we can get. just jones but i doubt we'll get him

[Jimbo's Drinker]

New York Newsday reports that Kosuke Fukudome "has narrowed his choices to the Royals and Cubs."

 

Take the report with a grain of salt, because the Royals previously indicated that they weren't interested in Fukudome and the Padres reportedly offered him a three-year deal Tuesday. The one thing that seems certain is that the Cubs have remained heavily interested in Fukudome from Day 1

 

 

 

I hate this god damn under the radar crap....just put your name out there and get the players...stop playing patty cake with our emotions, KW

[BlackBetsy]

The point now is that with all of us recognizing the fact that the plan has basically failed and any attempt to replace the "impact" players with lesser free agents or trades will only piss us off. The article quotes KW in saying, "Asked if it was time to regroup, Williams said: ''No, we have to try to be the best team we can be." Which basically tells us all right there KW will continue to try and add these lesser players on cue with the "plan". On the other hand, we are saying forget it, its not worth it given what has just transpired, play the damn kids. I think this is the real turning point. It would have been nice for KW to say we're going to re-evaluate our position and consider a deviation from the original "plan". Even if it involved trading some of the vets already onboard (dye, buehrle, Konerko, AJ) and trying to get some young talent. Moreover it seems that KW (with an already approved payroll increase) just wants to keep to the gameplan (ala lovie smith) and continue to bring in now what we would call "non impact" type players. Stubborn? Yes! Foolish?

 

You put forward a coherent and believable theory. Whether it's true, I don't know.

 

I just hope that the Sox put the money they set aside for Hunter into Fukudome. I honestly think a lineup of Fukudome / Cabrera / Thome / Konerko / Dye / Quentin / Pierzynski / Fields / Richar has amazing potential (My guess is 900 runs, if Fields and Richar live up to their projections).

 

I think the biggest story for the Sox in the early season will be trying to figure out who the #4 and #5 starters. I fully expect that Broadway, Gonzalez, Danks, Floyd and Egbert - if they are still around - will ALL have 2 starts by the end of July. My gut tells me that the winners of that race will be Gio and Floyd, with Egbert coming in third place, Broadway fourth and Danks fifth.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

You put forward a coherent and believable theory. Whether it's true, I don't know.

 

I just hope that the Sox put the money they set aside for Hunter into Fukudome. I honestly think a lineup of Fukudome / Cabrera / Thome / Konerko / Dye / Quentin / Pierzynski / Fields / Richar has amazing potential (My guess is 900 runs, if Fields and Richar live up to their projections).

 

I think the biggest story for the Sox in the early season will be trying to figure out who the #4 and #5 starters. I fully expect that Broadway, Gonzalez, Danks, Floyd and Egbert - if they are still around - will ALL have 2 starts by the end of July. My gut tells me that the winners of that race will be Gio and Floyd, with Egbert coming in third place, Broadway fourth and Danks fifth.

 

so 4th, maybe 3rd place.

[thedoctor]

if we were going to make a philosophical change, now was is not the time to make it. at this point, you've committed to a certain path and a certain line of thinking. you've signed up some vets to long-term deals, made trades that are (mostly) without an eye to the future, and decided to "win now." it's too late to make a philosophical change at this point. i think the best we can hope is that we make another decent signing or two and somehow catch lightning in a bottle.

 

and honestly, if a philosophical change is going to be made, it's probably going to have to involve bringing in a new gm. i'm a kw supporter, but he hasn't really distinguished himself when it comes to either accumulating young talent or developing it. if there is a philosophical change it will likely have to start with a new gm.

[JPN366]

Seriously, this ESPN Boston love fest is disturbing. I say ESPN will eventually ruin baseball if Gammonds and others aren't gone soon. Everytime Boston and their prospects come up they go from journalist to fan in a matter of seconds.

 

They get all gitty like little girls about who is next and honest to god, I think Owners and front office people believe it.

 

Ellsbury to me is so overrated. He is Johnny Damon. Lester has overcome his problems and no disrespect to him is intended when I say he is overrated. Even Bucholz to me is overrated. If it wasn't for his no-hit bid this season he would be in a Johan deal.

 

Why they would even consider the Sox over the Yanks is crazy to me. Phil Hughes is elite. Lester, Lowrie, etc..are not. Melky Cabrera is overrated a little in my book but even he is better then Ellsbury, and you would be getting him ontop of Hughes. It's just mind blowing.

 

The Red Sox can scout. I will give them that. They also have the money to draft top 10 talent when it falls to them because of contracts and they also seem to lose quality players every year to FA so they get the compensation picks. Why do they??? Cuz they spend in FA.

 

That said, why does everyone drink that organizations Koolaid? Every year it is someone knew. Where is the next big thing Craig Hansen, or Brandon Moss? How about my personal favorite Seung Song. Tony Blanco, Brad Baker. Big swingin Dernell Stenson was there stud of the future for like my high school life. I have mentioned Casey Fossum. There is more, I swear it. All of these guys were better then anyone elses prospects if you would believe espn. It's a joke.

 

Every team has failed prospects but if you look at their track record since even like 2000. Outside of Papelbon, Han Ram (who prior to trade was slipping in Gammonds eyes I recall) and maybe Pedroia? They are much more common to fail but teams still keeping buying into them. It's bad and annoying me more then ever with this Johan talk following a WS title.

 

Amen! Why Minnesota would want Ellsbury more than any other player is baffling to me. Even Lester would be a better centerpiece than Ellsbury. The possibility of getting Hughes should have cinched the deal for the Yankees. Minnesota is out of their minds.

 

[BamaDoc]

I agree that the biggest fundamental change that needs to be undertaken is a MAJOR investment of capital/cash in the scouting and draft. We need to adopt a best player available in the draft and sign them. This year without our second round pick, we should invest in scouts and training facilities as well as looking at international talent. This may take a number of years to pay off but there is no substitute for a steady infusion of young cheaper talent. I would also consider moving Konerko to aquire younger talent. The Angels, Dodgers, possibly Mariners offer possibilities.

[juddling]

Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him.

 

Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal.

 

Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had.

 

OK Soxtalk....discuss

[Melissa1334]

Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him.

 

Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal.

 

Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had.

 

OK Soxtalk....discuss

he should have made the trade and then could have shipped willis else where. plain and simple, cabrera could have and should have been a sox

[tonyho7476]

Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him.

 

Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal.

 

Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had.

 

OK Soxtalk....discuss

 

Sounds to me like he should have done it. Now I just hope Miguel does not sign with them, and we can get him next year...YEAH RIGHT!

[southsideirish71]

Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him.

 

Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal.

 

Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had.

 

OK Soxtalk....discuss

 

Well a few years ago, the Marlins couldn't find a guy to pick up Lowell and his contract to aquire this Beckett fellow. The redsox decided to take a gamble. He rebounded pretty well. Plus if they really didnt want Willis, Kenny could of turned around and spun him for something else. He is left handed, young so teams will be interested.

 

Joe Cowley spins what the sox give him to spin. All I know is facing that lineup 19 times a year will be destructive.

 

 

.

[NorthSideSox72]

Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him.

 

Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal.

 

Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had.

 

OK Soxtalk....discuss

What other prospects? Assuming the 4 players were Fields, Danks, Gio and another prospect, who are the other two? Let's say the total package would have been Fields, Danks, Gio, Egbert, Sweeney and DLS. For one, that still doesn't beat Detroit's deal, and its about the best they could do. Second, what the heck do you do with the pitching staff now? And third, the farm system that had only a few decent prospect now has literally NONE.

 

Cowley is reliable only in being unreliable with his information. The Sox offers just couldn't beat Detroit's.

 

[hitlesswonder]

Just heard Joe Cowley on the Score talking about the Cabrera trade and he gave Kenny a bit of credit. Joe said the Sox had the best 4 person package for Cabrera on the table but the Marlins came back tried to throw Dontrelle Willis in the package and would take another couple of prospects for him.

 

Ozzie told KW that Willis is only throwing 85 mph and not 95 like he should be and there is something wrong with him....he didn't want Willis. Kenny went back to the Marlins but the Marlins said that Willis was to be part of the package or no deal.

 

Kenny decided not to give up prospects for a pitcher who was hurt or lost whatever he had.

 

OK Soxtalk....discuss

 

When did willis ever throw 95MPH? This is pure spin. Anyway, we'll see who's right about Willis -- Ozzie Guillen or Dave Dombrowski.

 

And forget props to Kenny -- if he wanted Cabrera and knew he did last July he should have been building the damn farm system through trades so he had enough prospects to deal.

 

 

 

[buckweaver]

Thanks for posting this. For being two years removed from a World Championship, the overall tone on this site is so anti-organization it makes it hard to read. Perhaps it's simply all the negativity that comes out when people write, but you'd think by regularly reading Soxtalk that everyone in the Sox organization (especially Kenny Williams) is a numbnut and that a team of Joes from Bridgeport could certainly do a heck of a lot better job. The reality is that Kenny Williams is a smart guy and is willing to take a risk and Jerry Reinsdorf is a terrific owner who will spend wisely. I'd choose Kenny over most other general managers/Jerry over most other owners and give him the benefit of the duubt more often than most people on this site. It's absolutely everyone's right to post whatever they wish, but I question a lot of the venom, particularly when couched in terms of "What the hell...these guys don't know squat..." kind of writing. While Soxtalk is usually first with breaking Sox news, it's generally depressing to read because of the abundance of Chickens Little posting around here.

[rockren]

If anyone here isn't familiar with me yet- I hate Kenny Williams. Not so much for his baseball savvy, but because he's an arrogant assclown.

 

With that being said, KW's off-season has been fine. Not getting Hunter for all those bucks was a blessing in disguise. We have a SS that we can go to war with every day in OC and people will love that trade more and more as next season goes forward.

 

KW still has work to do, but regardless of people saying we could've gotten Miggy....that's nuts. I firmly believe we weren't going to have gotten him for our top 5 young players.

 

If KW still gets a "Big Fish" like a Bedard or Haren (I'm totally just dropping names here and there is nothing to it but my own speculation) this off-season may not have been so terrible.

 

KW......you're ok with me as of now. Just keep your cool.

[NorthSideSox72]

Thanks for posting this. For being two years removed from a World Championship, the overall tone on this site is so anti-organization it makes it hard to read. Perhaps it's simply all the negativity that comes out when people write, but you'd think by regularly reading Soxtalk that everyone in the Sox organization (especially Kenny Williams) is a numbnut and that a team of Joes from Bridgeport could certainly do a heck of a lot better job. The reality is that Kenny Williams is a smart guy and is willing to take a risk and Jerry Reinsdorf is a terrific owner who will spend wisely. I'd choose Kenny over most other general managers/Jerry over most other owners and give him the benefit of the duubt more often than most people on this site. It's absolutely everyone's right to post whatever they wish, but I question a lot of the venom, particularly when couched in terms of "What the hell...these guys don't know squat..." kind of writing. While Soxtalk is usually first with breaking Sox news, it's generally depressing to read because of the abundance of Chickens Little posting around here.

There is plenty to be upset about. But, I agree with your overall point. Some of this THE TEAM IS SCREWED FOR 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! crap is pretty laughable.

 

I just hope you don't get run down by the runaway panic-and-doom train because of your post.

 

[southsideirish71]

Thanks for posting this. For being two years removed from a World Championship, the overall tone on this site is so anti-organization it makes it hard to read. Perhaps it's simply all the negativity that comes out when people write, but you'd think by regularly reading Soxtalk that everyone in the Sox organization (especially Kenny Williams) is a numbnut and that a team of Joes from Bridgeport could certainly do a heck of a lot better job. The reality is that Kenny Williams is a smart guy and is willing to take a risk and Jerry Reinsdorf is a terrific owner who will spend wisely. I'd choose Kenny over most other general managers/Jerry over most other owners and give him the benefit of the duubt more often than most people on this site. It's absolutely everyone's right to post whatever they wish, but I question a lot of the venom, particularly when couched in terms of "What the hell...these guys don't know squat..." kind of writing. While Soxtalk is usually first with breaking Sox news, it's generally depressing to read because of the abundance of Chickens Little posting around here.

 

Thanks for the laugh Kenny. Now get back into the meetings and get to work.

 

 

 

[buckweaver]

There is plenty to be upset about. But, I agree with your overall point. Some of this THE TEAM IS SCREWED FOR 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! crap is pretty laughable.

 

I just hope you don't get run down by the runaway panic-and-doom train because of your post.

 

 

Bring it on. It'll only serve to prove my point.

[rockren]

Thanks for the laugh Kenny. Now get back into the meetings and get to work.

 

LMAO

 

I was thinking the same thing....great call.

[Soxfest]

Get Cabrera then trade Willis if you want that is not a valid excuse sorry KW, 2 more specs that are low rated anyway who cares spin the wheel make the deal!

[rockren]

Get Cabrera then trade Willis if you want that is not a valid excuse sorry KW, 2 more specs that are low rated anyway who cares spin the wheel make the deal!

 

Whoever got D-Train is stuck with him. D-Train is damaged goods and will only be a LR guy for the rest of his career.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love what Detroit did...but they didn't get Miggy for free.

 

If people want to hate Kenny, I'm cool with that. Just hate him for things he's said about Frank Thomas and his personality around other personnel and people in baseball. Don't hate him for not getting Miggy because he didn't have much control of that.

[klaus kinski]

Williams is a fool and is played like a fiddle by agents and players

[YASNY]

There is plenty to be upset about. But, I agree with your overall point. Some of this THE TEAM IS SCREWED FOR 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! crap is pretty laughable.

 

I just hope you don't get run down by the runaway panic-and-doom train because of your post.

 

I agree with him too. This site is getting damn painful to visit.