Do we need a philosophical change?

[elrockinMT]

"You try to do things that make sense and you can afford," Williams said. "I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

 

Anyone else tired of this, these are the same comments he made since day 1, he said if people showed up he could do more. Attendance has been awesome last 2 years and ticket prices have raised both years but yet no big free agent signing or big trade deadline deal it is the same old BS from KW. KW says every year we have extra payroll to get the difference maker at trade deadline but never has, on free agents the same old we tried we really did. White Sox recieved 25 million in 2007 for MLB licensing products alone this does not count any other revenue such as TV/Radio or ticket sales or revenue sharing so do not give me and other diehard fans we have no revenue BS. I love the Sox but the excuses year after year about revenue is really old.

 

 

I am tired of it. I posted this same type of reply to something on the board. We hear it every year. We will spend the money to build a winner, but we only see the opposite.

[Melissa1334]

I am tired of it. I posted this same type of reply to something on the board. We hear it every year. We will spend the money to build a winner, but we only see the opposite.

^^^^^^^^

i cant believe im saying this, but mariotti is right. all kw and them do is talk talk talk

Edited December 5, 2007 by Melissa1334

[ptatc]

I am tired of it. I posted this same type of reply to something on the board. We hear it every year. We will spend the money to build a winner, but we only see the opposite.

 

ths Sox have nearly 100 million committed to 14 players. By the time the final rosters are in they will have a top 5-7 salary in baseball? More than enough money to compete. I'ts not how much you spend it's spending it properly. I don't think you can knock them for how much but if it's spent on the appropriate players.

 

The biggest deals are to Thome, Buerhle, Dye, Konerko, Vasquez, contreras and cabrera I believe. Start getting rid of the contracts you disagreed with when they were signed or obtained.

 

Let 'er rip.

Edited December 5, 2007 by ptatc

[CanOfCorn]

I am tired of it. I posted this same type of reply to something on the board. We hear it every year. We will spend the money to build a winner, but we only see the opposite.

 

Bottom line (so to speak)...at the end of the day...baseball is a business. We see it every year. Big market teams spend more (and the Sox are STILL up over $100 mil)...but my point is, you shouldn't overspend, years or money. You aren't going to please everyone...as seen on this board. The Hunter deal was fair at 5/$75 considering what the market is. Angels overpaid and now have a $10 million/year 4th outfielder. Tigers overspent and got a great player, but they BETTER win within a couple years, because they don't have replacements besides Porcello.

 

The White Sox spend money, but not excessive amounts...and that's not going to change...so support the team they can put on the field and just keep it in the back of your mind, not everything works out in life.

 

I'm glad the Sox didn't match the Angels offer and I'm glad Kenny stood his ground and said they wanted Cabrera ONLY. Yeah, it sucks, but let's see who takes the field on opening day before we blow up the 2008 season.

[SoxAce]

Or, you know, we could have drafted one in 2004...

 

Still grinds my gears till this day.

[DBAHO]

Yep well obviously more money needs to go into player development, scouting, international signings etc.

 

And I think at least we've started taking steps in that direction based on the events of this season with the firing of Shaffer, new scouts being hired etc.

 

I don't think it's ALL doom and gloom for our farm system, we do have some decent pitching prospects, but unfortunately it's our position prospects which are REALLY lacking.

 

That's an area that needs to be addressed ASAP, whether it's thru more signings from the D.R and Latin American region (just like that 16 y.o SS that was signed a month or 2 back).

 

As for the money and how we spend it, well payroll has gone up over the past 5 seasons, and I hope that continues again.

 

People say $100M ain't what it used to be, but imagine if you're the Pirates or Devil Rays and only have payrolls of about $30M.

 

Of course that $100M needs to be spent better. Paying Contreras $10M for example is not a good allocation of your resources. But unfortunately, that's the price of established starting pitching I guess.

[NCsoxfan]

Let's think about this for a moment.

 

Did KW act too quickly in trading Garland and signing Linebrink? It seems like he now only has half of his plan completed. Would he of traded Garland for an established player if he knew he would wiff on Torii and Miggy? My guess is no.

 

If he knew these events were to unfold, would the Sox have made a decision to rebuild? Does anyone else think KW is half way into a plan that is not feasible anymore?

[Dick Allen]

Let's think about this for a moment.

 

Did KW act too quickly in trading Garland and signing Linebrink? It seems like he now only has half of his plan completed. Would he of traded Garland for an established player if he knew he would wiff on Torii and Miggy? My guess is no.

 

If he knew these events were to unfold, would the Sox have made a decision to rebuild? Does anyone else think KW is half way into a plan that is not feasible anymore?

Read KW's quotes this morning. He thinks he has a championship team. The guy has totally lost his mind.

[chunk23]

Let's think about this for a moment.

 

Did KW act too quickly in trading Garland and signing Linebrink? It seems like he now only has half of his plan completed. Would he of traded Garland for an established player if he knew he would wiff on Torii and Miggy? My guess is no.

 

If he knew these events were to unfold, would the Sox have made a decision to rebuild? Does anyone else think KW is half way into a plan that is not feasible anymore?

 

I actually posted this same question on a different forum last night. I think that he did indeed act too fast. However, it is a problem of confusion with hindsight and forward thinking, if that makes any sense. Now that the Dodgers have Jones, they are looking to trade an outfielder for a starter. Would one of their outfielders be better than Quentin + O Cabrera? Was the current trade market really foreseeable at this point? It has been quite unpredictable. The plan supposedly had four steps, Cabrera and Linebrink being two of them. Torii is the third, obviously. I don't think Miggy was the fourth, that was too out there. So, yeah, the plan is only half done. Honestly, I think Rowand vs. Torii is a wash at this point, and it's just a matter of figuring out what the fourth step is supposed to be.

[DaTank]

Let's think about this for a moment.

 

Did KW act too quickly in trading Garland and signing Linebrink? It seems like he now only has half of his plan completed. Would he of traded Garland for an established player if he knew he would wiff on Torii and Miggy? My guess is no.

 

If he knew these events were to unfold, would the Sox have made a decision to rebuild? Does anyone else think KW is half way into a plan that is not feasible anymore?

 

I think KW did act too fast. First and formost any team outside of the NL East could have traded for M Cab and Willis if they wanted to. Secondly he waits until the Winter Meetings are almost over to finally get concerned. Now he will probally be at plan 1Z if Fukudome gets signed elsewhere and Rowand doesn't accept his offer. But he is cheap. His plan was to get a reliever which he did, and upgrade at shortstop, which he also did. But didn't upgrade in the outfield, or with a leadoff hitter all while losing a reliable starting pitcher in Garland. This is just stupid to me. More and more FA's are getting signed everyday and he is making deals to upgrade his bench instead of the starting lineup. Also Dye and Buehrle resigned because they were told of his "plan". If you could call it that. I don't know if it's just me but I don't think he is going full throtle trying to get the guys he wanted to get in the first place. Fire him for a GM that cares about the teams standings. This year we might have a team that wins 75 games with a salary of over 100 mil. It's nonsense to pay players that much to not play well.

 

[RME JICO]

Did KW actually whiff, or was he just making attempts to save face or drive up the price?

 

I don't think he acted too fast, because he could not control what other teams did.

 

 

[Hatchetman]

The timing seemed weird with the Uribe option picked up right before Cabrera trade. WTF was going on behind the scenes?

[DaTank]

KW is off of his damn rocker! Article in the Sun-Times quotes him about the Cabrera - Willis to the Tigers saying "'All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us,'' Williams insisted. "We certainly are not going to shy away from the challenge, especially knowing that no matter what your roster looks like on paper, it takes well-rounded teams in major-league baseball to compete for a championship.

 

''And what we have started this season, I am proud of. Where we're headed is right toward being a well-rounded baseball team in all facets of the game.''

 

This is a load of bull. He is proud of not signing Hunter and not trading for M Cab?

They are in a position to contend with Detroit? And their lineup of Mags, Granderson, Pudge, M Cab, Sheffield, Jaque Jones, and their amazing starters and bullpen?

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...oxint06.article

Edited December 6, 2007 by jenks45monster

[Melissa1334]

Let's think about this for a moment.

 

Did KW act too quickly in trading Garland and signing Linebrink? It seems like he now only has half of his plan completed. Would he of traded Garland for an established player if he knew he would wiff on Torii and Miggy? My guess is no.

 

If he knew these events were to unfold, would the Sox have made a decision to rebuild? Does anyone else think KW is half way into a plan that is not feasible anymore?

funny, i was actually thinking just that this morning when i heard the dodgers got jones. that the garland trade for cabrera and signing linebrink are pointless now unless he makes a big splash. if he had known that he would miss on hunter and miggy, i dont think he makes those deals.

[southsider2k5]

And the funny thing is that if Williams gets some of his big pieces and then still didn't have a SS, RP, and let Garland walkaway becaues he couldn't afford to keep him with the new big contracts he just aquired, people would b**** about that too. Its an imperfect process that is affected by the actions of 29 other organizations. I know Kenny Williams like to drink the blood of infants and all, but I can only imagine if your bosses held you all up to the same perfect standards...

[CarlosMartinez]

What are you guys expecting Kenny to say, "We totally laid an egg this offseason. We suck, get your money back on the season tickets you've all bought!"

I understand he's coming on a bit strong suggesting their a championship contender and now the Tigers can contend with them by the moves they made, but that's his job. I'd rather have a GM talking up his guys and what they've done than a stiff who sits around and complains about the set of guys he has.

And why the surprise with what he says, Kenny has been a very proud, confident guy since the day he took over as GM.

[DaTank]

What are you guys expecting Kenny to say, "We totally laid an egg this offseason. We suck, get your money back on the season tickets you've all bought!"

I understand he's coming on a bit strong suggesting their a championship contender and now the Tigers can contend with them by the moves they made, but that's his job. I'd rather have a GM talking up his guys and what they've done than a stiff who sits around and complains about the set of guys he has.

And why the surprise with what he says, Kenny has been a very proud, confident guy since the day he took over as GM.

 

It's not in his job to be a hypocrite. If he says that then i expect the playoffs this year.

[CarlosMartinez]

It's not in his job to be a hypocrite. If he says that then i expect the playoffs this year.

 

I don't remember seeing him quoted as guarenteeing playoffs. He said they are building a championship team, the Tigers made moves to contend with them. The Royals and Cleveland did the same things with their additions.

 

Has the season started, are the Sox 10 games out of first already? No, there are still plenty of moves to be made, they didn't trade away what little minor league they have left to get Miggy and they didn't spend a ridiculous amount of cash to get Tori Hunter. The Marlins have won a couple of World Series without signing the best free agents around or making blockbuster trades and so did the Sox a couple years ago. I'm like everyone else, it would have been nice to grab a headlining star this offseason, but it hasn't happened and may not happen. What has a team of high dollar All-Stars done recently, ask the Yanks, Cubs, or Dodgers.

[kwolf68]

Read KW's quotes this morning. He thinks he has a championship team. The guy has totally lost his mind.

 

 

Kenny Williams is trying to change reality by changing the perception of that reality. Reality will meet us next April. This is still one of the worst teams in the American League.

Edited December 6, 2007 by kwolf68

[DaTank]

I don't remember seeing him quoted as guarenteeing playoffs. He said they are building a championship team, the Tigers made moves to contend with them. The Royals and Cleveland did the same things with their additions.

 

Has the season started, are the Sox 10 games out of first already? No, there are still plenty of moves to be made, they didn't trade away what little minor league they have left to get Miggy and they didn't spend a ridiculous amount of cash to get Tori Hunter. The Marlins have won a couple of World Series without signing the best free agents around or making blockbuster trades and so did the Sox a couple years ago. I'm like everyone else, it would have been nice to grab a headlining star this offseason, but it hasn't happened and may not happen. What has a team of high dollar All-Stars done recently, ask the Yanks, Cubs, or Dodgers.

I never said he was quoted on making the playoffs. I'm saying if he expects to contend with Detroit and Cleveland then I expect the playoffs. He is sitting high on the fact that he hasnt done many things with a huge impact. And the Cubs may be high dollar with only a few All-Stars. And the Yanks have made the playoffs for over 10? straight years. My point is that he shouldn't be saying that he expects Detroit to contend with us like we have just won the WS again or something. And as of now they might as well be 10 games out of first. The Tigers didn't make moves to contend with us they made moves to contend with Cleveland.

Edited December 6, 2007 by jenks45monster

[southsideirish71]

I don't remember seeing him quoted as guarenteeing playoffs. He said they are building a championship team, the Tigers made moves to contend with them. The Royals and Cleveland did the same things with their additions.

 

Has the season started, are the Sox 10 games out of first already? No, there are still plenty of moves to be made, they didn't trade away what little minor league they have left to get Miggy and they didn't spend a ridiculous amount of cash to get Tori Hunter. The Marlins have won a couple of World Series without signing the best free agents around or making blockbuster trades and so did the Sox a couple years ago. I'm like everyone else, it would have been nice to grab a headlining star this offseason, but it hasn't happened and may not happen. What has a team of high dollar All-Stars done recently, ask the Yanks, Cubs, or Dodgers.

 

Actually his re-occurring quote about this is "Our goal every year is to win the world series, anything else is not acceptable." The last time I checked, the only way you get to the world series and win it is if you get a playoff berth.

 

 

[whitesoxfan101]

 

Thanks for the laughs. No shot, in early December.

 

3 or 4 years. Ha! Like we even know yet what this team will look like on Opening Day THIS year.

 

We are nowhere near even being respectable. Here are the ways you fix an organization with a talent deficiency throughout:

 

1. Draft well, too bad our GM has proven he can't do that.

2. Spend in the free agent market, too bad our GM has proven he won't do that.

3. Don't give up a solid RP prospect every year in the rule 5 when your bullpen sucks, too bad our GM has proven he won't do that either.

4. Make trades to fill holes, too bad our organization doesn't have the depth or talent to go that route.

5. Fill holes via the minor leagues, too bad our organization has the 29th best system out of 30 teams.

6. Trade your veterans at peak value, but instead of doing that we sign them to extensions after they are washed up and past their prime.

7. If all else fails, be like the Cubs and hope your division sucks, too bad we are in the best division in baseball.

 

You could say it's only December, but you can't fill holes when you won't spend on free agents and don't have the talent in your system to make trades, other than giving up a #3 starter with two 18 win seasons for a 33 year old SS who won't sign an extension. And with all this said, we STILL somehow have one of the biggest payrolls in the game due to all the bad contracts on the 25 man roster. We are screwed for a long time, I wish we'd at least hire a GM who has a clue how to rebuild a laughably pathetic franchise barren of talent, but I'm not getting my hopes up since our GM is an impressive 6 for 7 in failing to make the playoffs in his tenure, has the 2nd worst system in baseball, and has a 4th place team

Edited December 6, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[striker]

I don't know why everyone is freaking out so much. The only thing you can win in the offseason is the "on-paper world series".

 

On-paper right now the Sox don't look so great because everyone had a bad season last year.

On-paper right now the Tigers look completely awesome.

On-paper in 2005 the Whitesox looked like crap. Hermanson was our closer! Dustin Fing Hermanson! Dye was coming off a decent season. Garland was coming off a 12 win season with a 4.89 era. We said goodbye to Lee and Ordonez, two of baseballs best. But we won it all. And we beat Boston and LAA to get there.

On-paper in 2006 we looked even better. We added Jim Thome who tore it up. But we finished third.

 

So everyone just stop whining so much. All Kenny Williams can do is field a good team. The players have to win. There is no need to rebuild now. We can wait til after this season and try and dump Kornerko, Thome, Dye, etc. to rebuild.

[Kyyle23]

I cannot wait until Fukodome signs wherever he signs. There are gonna be some hilarious threads about it. People are gonna be pissed if we sign him because it will be too much and he wont be worth it, or they are gonna be pissed if we miss out on him because the money wasnt enough, or they are gonna be pissed if he decides to stay in Japan because KW didnt make a good enough offer.

 

Any way it happens, its gonna be great

[whitesoxfan101]

Our minor league system is barren of talent, our major league team is (at best) very thin on talent despite costing over 100 million dollars, our GM has overseen an on field team that has failed to make the playoffs 6 of his 7 years, and we can't make trades due to lack of talent and won't make FA deals since we continue to show up to the gun fight with a pocket knife, continue to bring 50 cents to the dollar show, etc. These points combined with the fact that KW and Ozzie won't shut up as we continue to fall far behind the rest of the division leads to some anger from everybody outside of the most unrealistic and optimistic fans.

Edited December 6, 2007 by whitesoxfan101