Crede close to going to Brewers

[iamshack]

We could clear around 7 million and let Fields know the job is his. We may actually get something ok considering a number of teams want Crede.

 

I would MUCH rather deal Fields in a package for Bedard but we all know that won't happen.

 

You could clear $12 million by dealing Konerko, and Crede's $ will come off the books either at the deadline, or after this season, whenever he is traded or walks.

[rockren]

You could clear $12 million by dealing Konerko, and Crede's $ will come off the books either at the deadline, or after this season, whenever he is traded or walks.

 

Konerko isn't coming off of back surgery and is signed long term. I wouldn't be surprised that P-Ko is being shopped right now, however it'd have to take a lot to deal Pauly right now. I'm in the keep Konerko camp unless as KW would say- "We would be bowled over"

[CanOfCorn]

You could clear $12 million by dealing Konerko, and Crede's $ will come off the books either at the deadline, or after this season, whenever he is traded or walks.

 

True, but Konerko's a deal is below market and he's signed for another 3 (?) years.

 

[iamshack]

True, but Konerko's a deal is below market and he's signed for another 3 (?) years.

 

Absolutely. Which is why he is one of the few pieces we have that has significant value.

 

I am specifically thinking of the Angels...I imagine we could fill a few positions of need for the forseeable future at the league minimum for the next few years.

[rockren]

Absolutely. Which is why he is one of the few pieces we have that has significant value.

 

I am specifically thinking of the Angels...I imagine we could fill a few positions of need for the forseeable future at the league minimum for the next few years.

 

That could be a team that could "bowl us over".

[Hatchetman]

No one knows how Elias calculates that stat. I don't even think Elias does. But the reality is, Joe Crede hit .216 last year and put up an OPS of .575 in nearly 200 plate appearances. For his 2 year average numbers (which is supposedly what they look at for that stat, your performance the 2 years before you hit FA) he would have to put up an OPS over .900 to drag his 2 year combined numbers up into the .750-.800 range where he might be considered type B.

 

based on 2006 and 2007, he is a B. so to stay a B, he'd have to match his 2006 again in 2008. unlikely.

[Balta1701]

Absolutely. Which is why he is one of the few pieces we have that has significant value.

 

I am specifically thinking of the Angels...I imagine we could fill a few positions of need for the forseeable future at the league minimum for the next few years.

Thinking about the Angels, I must ask:

 

When is the last time the Angels actually traded their youth to bring in veterans?

 

It's simply not something that team does. They tried to do a Santana/Tejada swap a couple years back and got shot down by Angelos, but beyond that, they usually wind up involved in every discussion and it always, always, always turns out that they don't want to meet the team's asking price. It would have, to my eyes, been a cakewalk for the Angels to beat the Tigers offer for Cabrera and Willis. Between Santana, Wood, Adenhart, Kendrick, and Willits, they could have picked probably 3 guys and beaten the Tigers offer, but they didn't. And now we expect that they're going to completely shift gears for Konerko?

[iamshack]

Thinking about the Angels, I must ask:

 

When is the last time the Angels actually traded their youth to bring in veterans?

 

It's simply not something that team does. They tried to do a Santana/Tejada swap a couple years back and got shot down by Angelos, but beyond that, they usually wind up involved in every discussion and it always, always, always turns out that they don't want to meet the team's asking price. It would have, to my eyes, been a cakewalk for the Angels to beat the Tigers offer for Cabrera and Willis. Between Santana, Wood, Adenhart, Kendrick, and Willits, they could have picked probably 3 guys and beaten the Tigers offer, but they didn't. And now we expect that they're going to completely shift gears for Konerko?

 

It's possible. I'm not sure why they didn't beat the Tigers' offer, probably because they didn't want to accept Dontrelle back.

 

I know this much, the Angels have always liked Konerko, he is their kind of player, his salary is reasonable, and new GM Tony Reagins now has a working relationship with KW. Obviously I am just speculating, but he they would certainly be at the top of the list for suitors in a possible Konerko deal.

Edited December 5, 2007 by iamshack

[CanOfCorn]

It's possible. I'm not sure why they didn't beat the Tigers' offer, probably because they didn't want to accept Dontrelle back.

 

I know this mucn, the Angels have always liked Konerko, he is their kind of player, his salary is reasonable, and new GM Tony Reagins now has a working relationship with KW. Obviously I am just speculating, but he they would certainly be at the top of the list for suitors in a possible Konerko deal.

 

Assuming they haven't already brought it up during the O-Cab talks, that is. Maybe the Angels are worried about Paulie's hip? Maybe they have their sights set on someone else now. I think Kenny would have to be absolutely blown away by an offer for Konerko. Not saying it couldnt' happen, but like Balta said, they are very reluctant to give away their young pieces. Why for Miguel then? Because he's 24.

[iamshack]

Assuming they haven't already brought it up during the O-Cab talks, that is. Maybe the Angels are worried about Paulie's hip? Maybe they have their sights set on someone else now. I think Kenny would have to be absolutely blown away by an offer for Konerko. Not saying it couldnt' happen, but like Balta said, they are very reluctant to give away their young pieces. Why for Miguel then? Because he's 24.

 

Well, we wouldn't be demanding as many pieces as the Marlins were. They also wouldn't have to pay Konerko as much as they would have had to pay Cabrera. I think Konerko would fit well into their plans, while not costing as much in terms of players or money. The one snag would be what would they do with Kotchman?

[Balta1701]

It's possible. I'm not sure why they didn't beat the Tigers' offer, probably because they didn't want to accept Dontrelle back.

 

I know this much, the Angels have always liked Konerko, he is their kind of player, his salary is reasonable, and new GM Tony Reagins now has a working relationship with KW. Obviously I am just speculating, but he they would certainly be at the top of the list for suitors in a possible Konerko deal.

yes, they could be at the top of the list for Konerko suitors. I just am trying to point out that you wouldn't be bringing back the 3 player haul from them that people seem to want. You wouldn't be pulling back Kendrick and Kotchman and anotehr guy, or Kotchman and a pitcher and Figgins. They just won't do it. Kotchman and Willits or Kotchman and Figgins might be what they'd consider offering, but they're probably not going beyond that.

[iamshack]

yes, they could be at the top of the list for Konerko suitors. I just am trying to point out that you wouldn't be bringing back the 3 player haul from them that people seem to want. You wouldn't be pulling back Kendrick and Kotchman and anotehr guy, or Kotchman and a pitcher and Figgins. They just won't do it. Kotchman and Willits or Kotchman and Figgins might be what they'd consider offering, but they're probably not going beyond that.

Agreed. I don't want Kotchman. I would try to get back Kendrick/Sean Rodriguez, or Kendrick/Mathis, or Kendrick/Santana...some sort of combination with Kendrick involved. But if they weren't moving Kotchman back, would that be a problem?

[The Ginger Kid]

Dodgers need a 3B...wish there was a deal to be made with them for Kemp.

[Balta1701]

Agreed. I don't want Kotchman. I would try to get back Kendrick/Sean Rodriguez, or Kendrick/Mathis, or Kendrick/Santana...some sort of combination with Kendrick involved. But if they weren't moving Kotchman back, would that be a problem?

I don't think that they'd move Kendrick for Konerko with any of those guys. They might well not move him straight up for Konerko. And like I've said, outside of their OF, they don't like blocking their kids. They have both Kotchman and Morales at 1b, and they have so many OF's that they have a rotating DH there. So unless they move Kotchman to pick up someone else, which is esp. unlikely now that Cabrera is gone since they have really no one else they can go after, they're not going to block their 2 cheap young 1b with Konerko at the same price as Vlad.

[iamshack]

I don't think that they'd move Kendrick for Konerko with any of those guys. They might well not move him straight up for Konerko. And like I've said, outside of their OF, they don't like blocking their kids. They have both Kotchman and Morales at 1b, and they have so many OF's that they have a rotating DH there. So unless they move Kotchman to pick up someone else, which is esp. unlikely now that Cabrera is gone since they have really no one else they can go after, they're not going to block their 2 cheap young 1b with Konerko at the same price as Vlad.

 

That's a fair point. Although I continually hear from some friends of mine with sources within the Angels that they are looking at Konerko and Teixera again...

[Balta1701]

That's a fair point. Although I continually hear from some friends of mine with sources within the Angels that they are looking at Konerko and Teixera again...

And if that's the case, their offer would start with Kotchman and go from there. And I doubt it would include Kendrick for either of them. They might try to talk the Braves into a Kotchman + Willits + a pitcher other than one of their top guys deal for Tex because that would fill all the holes the Braves have and give the Angels that bat, but that'd probably be with the assumption that they could resign Tex.

[iamshack]

And if that's the case, their offer would start with Kotchman and go from there. And I doubt it would include Kendrick for either of them. They might try to talk the Braves into a Kotchman + Willits + a pitcher other than one of their top guys deal for Tex because that would fill all the holes the Braves have and give the Angels that bat, but that'd probably be with the assumption that they could resign Tex.

 

Those are all good points, but I can't see the Braves dealing Teixera for Kotchman/Willits/+. No chance.

 

I'm not sure how it could work, only that I would tell them I needed to have Kendrick, not Kotchman. If that was not possible, than obviously it is not possible. But it isn't as though they couldn't flip Kotchman elsewhere.

[shawnhillegas]

Nobody knows what kind of career Hart is going to have. He might be a 1 year wonder like Bill Hall or he might be a perrenial all star. The start is promising but there have been alot of guys who have had nice starts to their career and flushed out rather quickly. I don't think that will be the case with Hart but, who knows? One thing we do know, when healthy, Joe Crede is an all-star,gold glove caliber 3b. Those type of guys just don't grow on trees. Obviuosly the key is health but Rolen is a guy who comes to mind that has health problems and bounced back nicley. He's better than Crede but Joe is, at least, in the same ball park. KW has really put a damper on Crede's trade value by thinking he "needs" to trade him. There's no way he get equal value in return.Of course, i'm assuming a healthy Crede and that he's been cleared for all baseball activities points in that direction. Go back to 2006. You don't think the Brewers would've traded Hart for Crede. That trade would've been crucified on the Sox end of things. But, it's not 2006 either.

 

 

Is this a joke? The damper on Crede's trade value comes from the fact that he is coming off major, unpredictable back surgery, is 30, and is about to be a free agent with Scott Boras as his agent. He doesn't have any trade value.

Edited December 5, 2007 by shawnhillegas

[RockRaines]

I don't understand why everyone is down on kotchman, at this point konerko for kotchman plus a spect and either willits or figgins is a huge win for us. Kotchman would be a positive organizational move.

[iamshack]

I don't understand why everyone is down on kotchman, at this point konerko for kotchman plus a spect and either willits or figgins is a huge win for us. Kotchman would be a positive organizational move.

 

It's not so much that I am down on Kotchman as much as I would like to move Fields to 1b, play Crede at 3b (this season), and get someone like Kendrick back at 2b.

[Balta1701]

I don't understand why everyone is down on kotchman, at this point konerko for kotchman plus a spect and either willits or figgins is a huge win for us. Kotchman would be a positive organizational move.

I'm not saying Konerko for Kotchman + 2 would be what the Angels would do. I'm saying they might konsider Konerko for Kotchma and either Figgins or Willits. And maybe not Figgins after the year he had last year.

[Balta1701]

It's not so much that I am down on Kotchman as much as I would like to move Fields to 1b, play Crede at 3b (this season), and get someone like Kendrick back at 2b.

And I'll say again...if this organization gives up one of its better prospects in Cunningham to bring in Richar, and then immediately blocks Richar with someone else and therefore kills his value because we'd have no choice but to trade them...then we are truly a mess.

[iamshack]

And I'll say again...if this organization gives up one of its better prospects in Cunningham to bring in Richar, and then immediately blocks Richar with someone else and therefore kills his value because we'd have no choice but to trade them...then we are truly a mess.

 

I'd keep Richar on as a utility infielder and move Uribe, or I'd put him back in Charlotte for now.

 

It's not as though he has such mastery of the game that he needs to be our starting 2b right now. That move was necessitated by the need to deal Iguchi.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I'd keep Richar on as a utility infielder and move Uribe, or I'd put him back in Charlotte for now.

 

It's not as though he has such mastery of the game that he needs to be our starting 2b right now. That move was necessitated by the need to deal Iguchi.

My point exactly. If this team gave up Cunningham, a valuable, A ball player in the OF, which happens to be a place where we're still trying to find players I believe...to bring in Richar to fill a hole, and then turns Richar into a super-sub...then basically they've traded Cunningham for the equivalent of Mark Loretta or something like that. Which would mean, to my eyes, yes, this team would be a mess, because it'd just be making moves left and right with no plan to even try to figure out what its needs are.

[iamshack]

My point exactly. If this team gave up Cunningham, a valuable, A ball player in the OF, which happens to be a place where we're still trying to find players I believe...to bring in Richar to fill a hole, and then turns Richar into a super-sub...then basically they've traded Cunningham for the equivalent of Mark Loretta or something like that. Which would mean, to my eyes, yes, this team would be a mess, because it'd just be making moves left and right with no plan to even try to figure out what its needs are.

 

Well, the plan was to bring in two very expensive players in Hunter and MCabrera, this necessitating the need for a league-minimum second baseman. Those two very expensive ballplayers never got here. Which means you suddenly have to do one of two things: 1) Replace the two of them with other expensive ballplayers; or 2) start getting young, talented players at key positions by trading the remaining valuable veterans you have.

 

My choice would obviously be 2. And if that's the case, you have to adjust your plan, rather than trying to stick with parameters of a plan that is no longer feasible.

Edited December 5, 2007 by iamshack