Dye calls up Kenny

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

A couple different reports that Dye called up Kenny this afternoon, mad that whatever Kenny promised when Dye signed wasn't getting done. I'm sure he probably guaranteed Hunter. I think it was Cowley and Levine who were near Kenny at the time and reported on it

[hitlesswonder]

A couple different reports that Dye called up Kenny this afternoon, mad that whatever Kenny promised when Dye signed wasn't getting done. I'm sure he probably guaranteed Hunter. I think it was Cowley and Levine who were near Kenny at the time and reported on it

 

Fine. Then get him to waive his NTC and trade him someplace else. And start rebuilding.

[greg775]

Why be mad at Dye?

Be mad at KW for his inability to keep us contenders.

Dye should be pissed if KW lied to him.

 

[RockRaines]

A couple different reports that Dye called up Kenny this afternoon, mad that whatever Kenny promised when Dye signed wasn't getting done. I'm sure he probably guaranteed Hunter. I think it was Cowley and Levine who were near Kenny at the time and reported on it

First of all, quote the source and the paper. Secondly, I do not believe it said he was mad.

[Vance Law]

A couple different reports that Dye called up Kenny this afternoon, mad that whatever Kenny promised when Dye signed wasn't getting done. I'm sure he probably guaranteed Hunter. I think it was Cowley and Levine who were near Kenny at the time and reported on it

 

 

I read this in the Tribune

"White Sox general manager Ken Williams received a call Tuesday night from curious right fielder Jermaine Dye."

 

But not what you're saying. Where does that come from? I would find it rather bizarre for Dye to sign contingent upon trade and free agent acquisitions which may or may not happen in the future. I can't imagine Williams would "promise" that he would get anyone.

[hitlesswonder]

Why be mad at Dye?

Be mad at KW for his inability to keep us contenders.

Dye should be pissed if KW lied to him.

I'm not mad at Dye. I'm just saying a smart GM would take advantage of the situation, get Dye to waive his NTC, and do what they should have done and deal off veteran players.

[southsideirish71]

I'm not mad at Dye. I'm just saying a smart GM would take advantage of the situation, get Dye to waive his NTC, and do what they should have done and deal off veteran players.

 

He had the perfect opportunity from a upset whitesox fanbase to make those moves around the trading deadline. However he decided that 07 was an abberation. He will keep drudging along, until its too late. Then spin off whatever for D level prospects.

 

 

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

First of all, quote the source and the paper. Secondly, I do not believe it said he was mad.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...120407a.article . The Levine version said he was mad

[southsideirish71]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...120407a.article . The Levine version said he was mad

 

Levine made it sound like Dye called up upset.

 

 

[Jeremy]

Hahaha. I don't know who looks worse: Kenny if he made wild promises to Dye or Dye believing him. I think Kenny has done a pretty solid job this offseason. Anyone who thought he could take a thin minor league system and $10 or $20 million and improve the team by 15 or 20 wins was kidding themselves.

[CWSGuy406]

Hahaha. I don't know who looks worse: Kenny if he made wild promises to Dye or Dye believing him. I think Kenny has done a pretty solid job this offseason. Anyone who thought he could take a thin minor league system and $10 or $20 million and improve the team by 15 or 20 wins was kidding themselves.

 

I agree that he hasn't done terribly this winter, but too much damage has been done (or not been done) with the farm system and it's all taking a huge toll right now.

 

Also, if you agree that the team couldn't be improved enough to compete in 2008, I can't see how you can view the Garland trade in a positive light. Kenny squandered away our biggest trading chip for another old player who doesn't figure to be part of the next time the White Sox raise any flags. He even said that he had offers with prospects on the table and that he turned them down. In a vacuum one year of Cabrera is a fine haul for one year of Garland, but you can't look at it so narrowly.

 

The Sox would've been so much better served this winter getting younger, but that decision was made back in July when Dye and to a lesser extent Buehrle were kept.

Edited December 5, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[southsideirish71]

I agree that he hasn't done terribly this winter, but too much damage has been done (or not been done) with the farm system and it's all taking a huge toll right now.

 

Also, if you agree that the team couldn't be improved enough to compete in 2008, I can't see how you can view the Garland trade in a positive light. Kenny squandered away our biggest trading chip for another old player who doesn't figure to be part of the next time the White Sox raise any flags. He even said that he had offers with prospects on the table and that he turned them down. In a vacuum one year of Cabrera is a fine haul for one year of Garland, but you can't look at it so narrowly.

 

The Sox would've been so much better served this winter getting younger, but that decision was made back in July when Dye and to a lesser extent Buehrle were kept.

 

Well the writing was on the wall for the "we are going for it crap".

 

Think about the end of last season. Instead of checking out Bourgeois and playing some more kids. We decided to play Erstad and Pods, whom by the way are both out of our system. They should of benched them the minute the rosters expanded. Now allowing those guys to start to hit and contribute probably contributed to 3 more wins, which of course as Chicago tradition blew our draft position. The number 3 pick might of netted us a superstar. Now the number 8 pick will most likely give KW the wiggle room to explain why Jordan Danks, the ball player and grinder, not superstar is a better fit for the sox.

 

The 2nd half of the season was handled foolishly. The sox had chance to reload but decided that 07 was an aberration.

 

[Vance Law]

I have a hard time buying any of this Williams promised people he'd get Cabrera some 6 months ago. With all of the things that can happen, with every team wanting him, with the Angels, Dodgers, Tigers, Yankees and other teams clearly having more they could offer. If Williams called me up 6 months ago and said, "I promise we're getting Miguel Cabrera," I'd say, "No you're not, you can't promise that. You don't know. Nobody does." And he'd say, "Yeah, that's true."

[Jeremy]

Also, if you agree that the team couldn't be improved enough to compete in 2008, I can't see how you can view the Garland trade in a positive light. Kenny squandered away our biggest trading chip for another old player who doesn't figure to be part of the next time the White Sox raise any flags. He even said that he had offers with prospects on the table and that he turned them down. In a vacuum one year of Cabrera is a fine haul for one year of Garland, but you can't look at it so narrowly.

 

Just because I look at it in context. Kenny has already decided to try and win now and has made a number of moves that have him locked in there pretty well. I can't blame him for failing to do a complete 180 at this point.

[hitlesswonder]

Just because I look at it in context. Kenny has already decided to try and win now and has made a number of moves that have him locked in there pretty well. I can't blame him for failing to do a complete 180 at this point.

 

Going for it or not, signing Linebrink was not a good move. If they are going for it, that $5M would have been better used to bring in an impact position player like Jones or Fukudome. If they aren't going for it, signing a declining middle reliever to a contract with a NTC and losing a pick is not a good plan.

 

Quentin seems like a reasonable acquisition either way.

Edited December 5, 2007 by hitlesswonder

[southsideirish71]

Going for it or not, signing Linebrink was not a good move. If they are going for it, that $5M would have been better used to bring in an impact position player like Jones or Fukudome. If they aren't going for it, signing a declining middle reliever to a contract with a NTC and losing a pick is not a good plan.

 

Quentin seems like a reasonable acquisition either way.

 

 

Well its not like the sox are going to go overslot at the 8th pick because they are saving money on not having a 2nd pick.

[Jeremy]

Going for it or not, signing Linebrink was not a good move. If they are going for it, that $5M would have been better used to bring in an impact position player like Jones or Fukudome. If they aren't going for it, signing a declining middle reliever to a contract with a NTC and losing a pick is not a good plan.

 

I agree with you but at the same time if he didn't make changes to the pen, people would've railed on him for it.

[joeynach]

The sun times article seems to lay forth a lot we know already. Sometime in July KW and the organization decided 2007 was more of an aberration than a mainstay and if they upgrade with players who are "impact" players while at the same time keep the core in tact, they can turn a 72 win team into a champion in 1 off season. So step 1 in july was to retain 3 parts of the core, Dye, Buehrle, and AJ and part of doing so was KW laying forth the plan to add these "impact players". As interpreted from the article above, KW gave specific names, which we now know to be the likes of Hunter, Miguel Cabrera, and perhaps even Linebrink. I'm sure he told Dye, Buehrle, AJ that he would "do everything in his power" to get these guys in a sox uniform. They were on board and signed, step 1 complete. Step 2 was to acquire the veteran bullpen help piece. Step 2 was recently completed with signing of Linebrink to a 5 year 20 Mil deal, which by most accounts is defiantly overpaying. Nonetheless, step 2 as promised and laid forth by the plan was delivered. Step 2A was to sign Hunter to the 5 Year/75 Mil deal it was said he wanted. KW knew before the season was over that he had this big FA signing approved by the chairman. Step 2A failed when the angels swooped in and overbid everyone else for Hunter and got him to sign. Step 2B was to go after Miguel Cabrera, who everyone knew would be available, with a package of everything we got; either Fields or Crede, along with Gio, Danks, Broadway, etc. Well, step 2B just failed and even worse he landed on one of our division rivals....OUCH!!

 

So basically this was the plan KW was talking about the whole time. The whole I have plan thing, and it will be revealed soon was basically all that. And Dye, Buehrle, and AJ were all informed of the plan back in July when they signed and to this point the plan has simply failed. Not that its necessarily because of something KW did or didn't do, just by unpredictability and the moving and shaking in the FA and trade markets. That being said KW's confident certainty about getting Hunter and Miguel Cabrera was a bit foolish in such an uncertain environment. Nonetheless, he was still as aggressive as he said he was going to be. That is what the article is referring to when it states that Dye called KW and asked what happened. Dye, just like the rest of us was wondering how the hell did we not get what we thought we were going to get, and what went wrong (which is obvious that the Tigers simply offered better talent). So there you have it, KW was planning on keeping the core; dye, buehrle, and AJ, as well as adding a SS (turned out to be Cabrera), veteran bullpen arm, and was going to add the likes of Hunter and Miguel Cabrera. Too bad it didn't work out, it actually would have been a vastly improved team.

 

The point now is that with all of us recognizing the fact that the plan has basically failed and any attempt to replace the "impact" players with lesser free agents or trades will only piss us off. The article quotes KW in saying, "Asked if it was time to regroup, Williams said: ''No, we have to try to be the best team we can be." Which basically tells us all right there KW will continue to try and add these lesser players on cue with the "plan". On the other hand, we are saying forget it, its not worth it given what has just transpired, play the damn kids. I think this is the real turning point. It would have been nice for KW to say we're going to re-evaluate our position and consider a deviation from the original "plan". Even if it involved trading some of the vets already onboard (dye, buehrle, Konerko, AJ) and trying to get some young talent. Moreover it seems that KW (with an already approved payroll increase) just wants to keep to the gameplan (ala lovie smith) and continue to bring in now what we would call "non impact" type players. Stubborn? Yes! Foolish? Maybe! I'm sure there is revenue analysis in all this plan business on how having a team with Kids vs Names correlates to revenue streams, sponsorships, and tickets sales. However, in reality anything KW does from here on out, in terms of 2008, is all in vain. He can keep his "Core" and continue to add pieces from FA or trades, or he can gut the Vets and bring in some young talent, either way 2008 is defiantly over!! And personally, I would hope 2009 and beyond is on Kennys radar as well because if we learned anything from 2007 veteran laiden teams get very old and very bad very fast....cough Tigers cough!!!

Edited December 5, 2007 by joeynach

[beck72]

I have a hard time believing Dye called up Kenny to rag him out. Kenny's main thrust to Aj, Dye and MB still holds true--That Kenny wants to contend in 2008 and 2009 not blow up the team. There is still time to get better. Hunter was signed to a ridiculous offer. The sox had the 2nd best.IMO, Detroit will get burned by the MCab deal. Esp when MCab can sign with the Sox in 2 yrs.

 

 

[joejoesox]

I have a hard time believing Dye called up Kenny to rag him out. Kenny's main thrust to Aj, Dye and MB still holds true--That Kenny wants to contend in 2008 and 2009 not blow up the team. There is still time to get better. Hunter was signed to a ridiculous offer. The sox had the 2nd best.IMO, Detroit will get burned by the MCab deal. Esp when MCab can sign with the Sox in 2 yrs.

 

do you honestly think the sox will pay cabrera what he'll be worth in 2 years? he could get a 20+ for 7-8 years from the right team, look what soriano got and he's older and a lesser player offensively and defensively. i don't see the sox paying anywhere close to that for any player

 

here's what i don't understand about what this team does with their money. ultimately its about winning it all, and with that being the case, why not overspend on guys who are basically a sure thing (Arod for example, Santana when he hits FA, Cabrera in FA, etc.) when you know for a fact having these kinds of players will most certainly get you into the playoffs and possibly beyond

 

whats the point of saving money if you're not building a team that can win? i don't see the point, it's ridiculous

[joeynach]

do you honestly think the sox will pay cabrera what he'll be worth in 2 years? he could get a 20+ for 7-8 years from the right team, look what soriano got and he's older and a lesser player offensively and defensively. i don't see the sox paying anywhere close to that for any player

 

here's what i don't understand about what this team does with their money. ultimately its about winning it all, and with that being the case, why not overspend on guys who are basically a sure thing (Arod for example, Santana when he hits FA, Cabrera in FA, etc.) when you know for a fact having these kinds of players will most certainly get you into the playoffs and possibly beyond

 

whats the point of saving money if you're not building a team that can win? i don't see the point, it's ridiculous

 

I agree its one thing to overpay for Linebrink, Rowand or Hunter, they are just average to above average player. But if you are going to go after real "impact" free agents, guys you know are HOF caliber (Arod, Santana, Miggy, etc) thats a whole different ballgame.

[beck72]

do you honestly think the sox will pay cabrera what he'll be worth in 2 years? he could get a 20+ for 7-8 years from the right team, look what soriano got and he's older and a lesser player offensively and defensively. i don't see the sox paying anywhere close to that for any player

 

here's what i don't understand about what this team does with their money. ultimately its about winning it all, and with that being the case, why not overspend on guys who are basically a sure thing (Arod for example, Santana when he hits FA, Cabrera in FA, etc.) when you know for a fact having these kinds of players will most certainly get you into the playoffs and possibly beyond

 

whats the point of saving money if you're not building a team that can win? i don't see the point, it's ridiculous

The sox are spending money. Did they not re-sign MB, Dye, AJ? Overpay to sign Linebrink?

It's one thing to spend money. It's another to overpay so much [in terms of cash and young talent via trade] that it keeps you from improving the team for the next 5, 10 yrs.

 

The sox may be put into the position of trading a guy like Pk to make up ground in the AL with Detroit and the Red sox w/ Santana because free agency isn't all that.

[joejoesox]

The sox are spending money. Did they not re-sign MB, Dye, AJ? Overpay to sign Linebrink?

It's one thing to spend money. It's another to overpay so much [in terms of cash and young talent via trade] that it keeps you from improving the team for the next 5, 10 yrs.

 

The sox may be put into the position of trading a guy like Pk to make up ground in the AL with Detroit and the Red sox w/ Santana because free agency isn't all that.

 

i guess i should've been more clear in my post, i was having some difficulty wording it

 

if the sox wanted to compete this year, they should've bumped the payroll up and made a serious offer to boras for Arod, i mean why not? the dude is a sure thing (you can argue towards his playoff reputation, but i'd wager most people would bet on his pure skill at the end of the day than what he's currently done in the post season for the yankees)

 

thats the point i'm trying to make, next year when santana hits FA, and in 2 years for miggy, the sox should bump payroll or prep their payroll this year and next year for 2009 so they can make offers to these guys, because they are sure things

 

but they won't, and thats what frustrates me. why won't they? why won't they go all the way and try to get someone like a santana or a cabrera or arod? some people will say "it's impossible, they don't have the money to attempt what you're asking", but I think its BS, and i think it would turn to be an investment especially since you aren't giving up our young talent to sign HOF free agents long term, you'd have a mixture of a veteran/young core of players who are most likely enough to help you contend for another title

 

the players we've signed so far aren't going to help us get into the playoffs, not even close. and then you combine that with what Detroit just did, and wow. Detroit + Cleveland will be battling it out all year just like last year, and we'll be sitting here battling the Minnesota Devil Rays for 3rd and 4th place, god this sucks

[rockren]

IMO, Detroit will get burned by the MCab deal. Esp when MCab can sign with the Sox in 2 yrs.

 

 

That's what I tell all of my friends to feel like a big shot.

[Dick Allen]

Anyone as sick of this quote as I am? KW hasn't broken it out since pre-WS title

 

"You try to do things that make sense and you can afford," Williams said. "I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."