Rowand offered 4 yrs/55 million from Sox

[Vance Law]

Zito and Zambrano are pitchers and Soriano is not a LFer, so it can't be compared. Ichiro (5 for 75) is far and away above Hunter, yet Hunter got paid like Ichiro. Vernon Wells is better than Hunter as well and 3 years younger. The Angels indeed ruined it.

 

Vernon Wells is not better than Hunter. He put up a .706 OPS last year. That is Pods territory. And he didn't steal 40 bases.

[Balta1701]

I think the O's would do a Fields/Gio or Danks/Broadway/Anderson or Sweeney

 

Make the deal- give us 72 hours to extend Bedard to the cool tune of 5yrs/75 million and we're good.

 

15 mil a year for Bedard? Ummmmmm yeah. Especially if we're even considering 13.5 for Rowand.

Let me ask you folks this.

 

Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost.

 

Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2.

 

Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades?

 

If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

[rockren]

Vernon Wells is not better than Hunter. He put up a .706 OPS last year. That is Pods territory. And he didn't steal 40 bases.

 

Wells is better than Hunter. At least he has a higher ceiling. He had a bad shoulder last year- look at his '05 stats at least.

 

Vernon turns 29 in a couple of days. I'd take Vernon over Hunter any day of the week.

[nitetrain8601]

I rather much have Andruw. In a down year he still had pretty nice power numbers and historically he's just a flat out better player than Rowand.

[rockren]

Let me ask you folks this.

 

Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost.

 

Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2.

 

Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades?

 

If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

 

I didn't say anything about Rowand. If we'd land Bedard I'm assuming that Jerry Owens is our lead-off man in Center to start the year.

 

[Balta1701]

I didn't say anything about Rowand. If we'd land Bedard I'm assuming that Jerry Owens is our lead-off man in Center to start the year.

Fine. Then my question is still valid. If we swap Fields and Gio for Bedard and extend him long term...does that make us a contender in the AL Central next year?

 

Because if it doesn't, then we've just turned 2 cheap guys under our control into 1 expensive guy under our control and mandated that we're going to have to spend more money to fix yet another position.

 

If you're making a move for a veteran now, you better be fully convinced that you have a shot to win the Central because of that move next year. Otherwise, you're simply sabotaging yourself next offseason with a worse draft pick and a lot less money to spend if a good FA does become available.

[nitetrain8601]

Let me ask you folks this.

 

Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost.

 

Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2.

 

Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades?

 

If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

 

I agree, let's not make a move just to make a move. Kenny's plan looked good in principle(hell, it got Buehrle and Dye to resign and Buehrle for below market value), but it didn't work. We can't just trade any halfway decent chip we have left to lock up guys who won't help us win the division.

 

[Milkman delivers]

This guy is going to be back to league average at best in the AL. He is not worth anything NEAR this offer. Remember how useless he was on the Sox, minus 2004? He's decent at best.

[Vance Law]

If we're willing to give Rowand $55 mil for 4 years, why would we not give him $60 mil for 5 years? It's $5 mil. $12 mil gets deferred another year further into the future. If he's still good, leave him in there. If he's medium, trade him. If he sucks, put him on the bench.

 

My point being, the logic of "we don't want to pay someone $12 mil to sit on the bench, 4 years from now" doesn't make much sense coupled with "we want to pay him $7 mil more, sooner."

[Frankensteiner]

Let me ask you folks this.

 

Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost.

 

Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2.

 

Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades?

 

If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

 

Replace Rowand with Fuku and I like that team as much the Tigers or Indians, but I doubt most people here would agree.

[Chombi]

Let me ask you folks this.

 

Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost.

 

Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2.

 

Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades?

 

If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

 

No Bedard is not our answer. Neither is Rowand.

 

Bedard can't even go 200 innings. In our ballpark too, his era might be up at 4. That isn't worth the price you'll pay for him. Not to mention he is 28 and 2 years from fa? I forget how many.

 

Rowand only solves the body in CF. A body that can be placed there after earning it in ST. We sill need a leadoff hitter and he isn't that.

 

This I pray doesn't happen.

[Balta1701]

No Bedard is not our answer. Neither is Rowand.

 

Bedard can't even go 200 innings. In our ballpark too, his era might be up at 4. That isn't worth the price you'll pay for him. Not to mention he is 28 and 2 years from fa? I forget how many.

 

Rowand only solves the body in CF. A body that can be placed there after earning it in ST. We sill need a leadoff hitter and he isn't that.

 

This I pray doesn't happen.

At least someone caught my point.

 

It makes a lot more sense to cry poor right now, take this season and see what we have, and maybe even hope that a smart trade comes around for someone like JT than it does to blow a lot of money on a marginal player for CF or SP or to trade all of the young guys we have for 1 other SP. I'd probably say the same thing even about Johan.

[Vance Law]

Fine. Then my question is still valid. If we swap Fields and Gio for Bedard and extend him long term...does that make us a contender in the AL Central next year?

 

I would say, yes, contender, with a couple caveats. Not the favorite, but that gives us the best rotation in the division if Contreras is at least around league average and Crede is healthy.

 

[The Ginger Kid]

If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

 

excellent point.

 

I'd like to see the Sox try and add some speed and let the chips fall where they may this season.

[Vance Law]

Bedard can't even go 200 innings. In our ballpark too, his era might be up at 4. That isn't worth the price you'll pay for him.

 

Isn't Camden one of the best hitters parks in baseball?

Edited December 5, 2007 by Vance Law

[Wanne]

If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

 

Nail on the head.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Nail on the head.

 

 

 

except the fact that no one wants our scrubby farm hands and they wont help us either. The white sox are consistently poor from top to bottom.

[BlackBetsy]

I don't know what KW's personal thoughts on steroid use are -- I don't know what Sabean thinks, what Shapiro thinks, what Bowden thinks, etc. etc. but I would bet money that the vast majority of managers, owners and general managers know that many, if not most of the players are juicing and don't care so long as they don't get caught and embarrass the franchise.

 

Actually, KW is very sensitive to steroid usage. Also note that the White Sox were actually going to refuse the steroid tests AS A TEAM in '05 (or maybe '04) with the intent of driving the "positives" higher (a refused test counts as a positive) so that testing would become mandatory. (The labor agreement at the time called for initial testing to determine whether more than 7% of MLB'ers were on the s***. If more than 7% tested positive, testing would be put into place. Obviously, the number beat 7%).

[Balta1701]

Actually, KW is very sensitive to steroid usage. Also note that the White Sox were actually going to refuse the steroid tests AS A TEAM in '05 (or maybe '04) with the intent of driving the "positives" higher (a refused test counts as a positive) so that testing would become mandatory. (The labor agreement at the time called for initial testing to determine whether more than 7% of MLB'ers were on the s***. If more than 7% tested positive, testing would be put into place. Obviously, the number beat 7%).

It was 03 and the number was 5%.

[BlackBetsy]

It was 03 and the number was 5%.

OK. Was there a 7% number that was meaningful? Like if it was 5-7%, one thing would happen, over 7%, another thing would happen?

 

When you are as old as me, '03, '04, '05 all run into each other.

[Balta1701]

OK. Was there a 7% number that was meaningful? Like if it was 5-7%, one thing would happen, over 7%, another thing would happen?

 

When you are as old as me, '03, '04, '05 all run into each other.

The test results are in, and they confirmed what many in baseball suspected: Some players were taking more than vitamins.

 

Now, Major League Baseball will begin penalizing players for steroid use after learning that more than 5 percent of this year's tests came back positive.

 

Rumors regarding steroids had run high recently as bulked-up sluggers set all sorts of home run records.

 

Stars such as Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa denied taking the drugs. But former MVPs Jose Canseco and Ken Caminiti admitted they had done it before their careers ended.

 

"Hopefully, this will, over time, allow us to completely eradicate the use of performance enhancement substances in baseball," commissioner Bud Selig said Thursday.

 

MLB said of 1,438 anonymous tests this season, between 5 and 7 percent were positive.

 

"There's a slight disagreement to where in that spectrum the exact number falls," said Gene Orza, the No. 2 official of the players' association. "It's a technical disagreement to the interpretation of the results."

 

Under baseball's labor contract that took effect on Sept. 30, 2002, testing with penalties begins after any season in which more than 5 percent of survey tests are positive. And from now on, players will be identified.

Link

[rockren]

At least someone caught my point.

 

It makes a lot more sense to cry poor right now, take this season and see what we have, and maybe even hope that a smart trade comes around for someone like JT than it does to blow a lot of money on a marginal player for CF or SP or to trade all of the young guys we have for 1 other SP. I'd probably say the same thing even about Johan.

 

I actually think Bedard could be our answer. If we were going to throw 75 mil at Hunter...I don't see why we wouldn't throw 75 mil at Bedard.

 

The additions of Bedard and Linebrink to our pitching staff would make us 12-15 games better alone. Just think of all the games we blew in the 7th and 8th inning last year! Linebrink SHOULD cut down on a lot of those. Just think of the 68 games where we started the inexperienced guys like Floyd/Danks/Masset and the struggling Contreras. Give 25-30 of those starts to a guy like Bedard to help take the edge off and how many games better will we be?

 

If we could add Bedard to what we've already added, I could see this team compete for 90 wins next year. Does that get us into the playoffs? It'd be close, which is all we could ask for at this point.

[Rowand44]

Wow. I personally think this would be a tremendous deal in this market but I'm obviously in the minority here. Rowand will get more imo but I'd love this.

[kwolf68]

The additions of Bedard and Linebrink to our pitching staff would make us 12-15 games better alone. Just think of all the games we blew in the 7th and 8th inning last year! Linebrink SHOULD cut down on a lot of those. Just think of the 68 games where we started the inexperienced guys like Floyd/Danks/Masset and the struggling Contreras. Give 25-30 of those starts to a guy like Bedard to help take the edge off and how many games better will we be?

 

If we could add Bedard to what we've already added, I could see this team compete for 90 wins next year. Does that get us into the playoffs? It'd be close, which is all we could ask for at this point.

 

 

I LOVE Bedard. In a rotation of Burls, Javy thats not bad. Problem is...we have no chance of getting him in my view. I don't think we have the talent along the minor league trail to get it done. We have absolutely NO position prospects left and they'd want at least 3 top spects, 2 of em elite...

 

 

[klaus kinski]

We need Rowand and Bedard. Face it, we arent gonna out hit Detroit. We have to pitch with them, then play strong defense to be in it.

Edited December 5, 2007 by klaus kinski