You knew it was coming

[Milkman delivers]

Wait, I retract my previous statement. The Sox should NOT sign Fukudome. There really isn't much of a chance that we compete next year or any time in the near future. We shouldn't sign anyone that will cost much money, and re-build. It's too bad we decided to "go for it" by signing and trading for mid-level talent when teams that are already clearly better than us are making much better moves.

[NorthSideSox72]

And more than anything, they were upset that he wasn't competing.

He did seem to lack focus out there, didn't he? I could never quite put my finger on it, though. No killer instinct. No drive to challenge the hitters.

 

[fathom]

He did seem to lack focus out there, didn't he? I could never quite put my finger on it, though. No killer instinct. No drive to challenge the hitters.

 

And his mechanics on his follow-thru were just pathetic. It started in June or so, when he couldn't get past the 5th inning without throwing 100 pitches.

[CanOfCorn]

I guess some people would rather have the Sox brass say things like, "We suck...yep, that's right, I said it. We stuck to our guns and didn't overpay. We gave what we thought were good offers. We offered fair price for free agents. But, our fan base wants us to do things that we tried to do, but couldn't for whatever reason. So, flame on."

 

No matter how ridiculous it sounds, I want that confidence, even if it borders on ridiculous. Cuz, if he doesn't believe it, then no one else will. Go ahead folks, flame on.

[Dick Allen]

I guess some people would rather have the Sox brass say things like, "We suck...yep, that's right, I said it. We stuck to our guns and didn't overpay. We gave what we thought were good offers. We offered fair price for free agents. But, our fan base wants us to do things that we tried to do, but couldn't for whatever reason. So, flame on."

 

No matter how ridiculous it sounds, I want that confidence, even if it borders on ridiculous. Cuz, if he doesn't believe it, then no one else will. Go ahead folks, flame on.

Confidence is one thing. Ridiculous and outright lying is another.

[Gregory Pratt]

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us,"

 

That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time and I spent the morning reading Craigslist/Chicago Reader personals for a class!

[CanOfCorn]

Confidence is one thing. Ridiculous and outright lying is another.

 

If it helps the Sox play with a chip on their shoulders...then, who cares?

 

 

[fathom]

If it helps the Sox play with a chip on their shoulders...then, who cares?

 

The Sox don't need a chip....they need talent.

[Gregory Pratt]

If it helps the Sox play with a chip on their shoulders...then, who cares?

 

I'm sorry, but baseball isn't a game where you're helped significantly by playing with a chip on your shoulder and it isn't something that can be forced out. You have it or you don't. I assure you Paul Konerko isn't going to learn how to run and hit 60 homeruns because someone said his team can't compete; "a chip" isn't going to teach Gavin Floyd how to be a good pitcher, a chip won't ensure Danks excellence. What is this "chip" on their shoulder?

[Dick Allen]

If it helps the Sox play with a chip on their shoulders...then, who cares?

The quote that bothers me is the quote about Danks. He calls him a front of the rotation starter and says they sat him because they knew what they had. Then why wouldn't they sit Jenks, or Konerko or Vazquez or Buerhle don't they know what they have in them? It was an outright lie. This was a 90 loss team. They can play with all the chips on their shoulders they can find, but it won't make them a contender. They need some new players. KW knows it. Its why he tried to get Hunter and Cabrera. He just tries to throw this other BS out because he knows there are those that because of 2005 think he can do no wrong.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Dick Allen

[hitlesswonder]

There is a very big difference between confidence and arrogance. The Sox seem to be arrogant when it comes to this off-season. Williams is acting like he came off a World Series birth, when in fact this is a team that went 72-90 and needs a ton of work. Even Ozzie seems to know this, yet Williams makes it seem like teams and free agents owe the Sox something.

 

Yeah -- it's possible to be confident and not spout off over-the-top assessments of your team and players. I thought the worst part was his accusation that other teams executives had screwed things up for the Sox by leaking information. That's not going help his working relationship with other GMs.

 

Really, he needs to watch Bull Durham and get his cliches down.

[Dick Allen]

KW has often said he and the White Sox organization don't care what other people think. Why should other organizations care what he thinks?

[LosMediasBlancas]

I'm really trying to understand who and what spcifically KW is talking about.

 

What leaked?

Who leaked it?

Who heard about it?

What player(s) did we lose as a result of it?

Is that probable?

 

[CanOfCorn]

The quote that bothers me is the quote about Danks. He calls him a front of the rotation starter and says they sat him because they knew what they had. Then why wouldn't they sit Jenks, or Konerko or Vazquez or Buerhle don't they know what they have in them? It was an outright lie. This was a 90 loss team. They can play with all the chips on their shoulders they can find, but it won't make them a contender. They need some new players. KW knows it. Its why he tried to get Hunter and Cabrera. He just tries to throw this other BS out because he knows there are those that because of 2005 think he can do no wrong.

 

this was Danks first full season in the majors. Probably the most innings he's pitched in a season. Why throw him out there, cause more stress on his (probably) tired arm WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE?

 

Seriously, I'm disappointed too. But I'm not going to convict the organization for things that were partially out of their control. And one of the reasons the Sox played well in 2005, is BECAUSE of a chip on their shoulder. No one thought they would be THAT good. Hey, I'm not saying this team is going to the playoffs, but I'm also not going to say that it can't or won't happen BEFORE we've hit 2008, either.

 

This is Kenny Williams. He doesn't care what you or I think. And either does Jerry or the board, but they love him. And until he isn't, he's the White Sox GM, who, by the way, is the FIRST GM in 88 years to win a World Series.

[jasonxctf]

is it just me or does it seem like the Sox would rather "go on the cheap and fall short" than "overpay and be in the race."

 

obviously its quite easy to spend someone elses money, but if the Sox were to say pay an extra $3 mil per year (more than what they are willing to spend) on 3 quality players who would allow the Sox to compete into September, that $9 million is worth more to the Sox than actually competiting.

 

And if the Sox did overpay the $9 million, wouldn't the increased interest in Sox baseball lead to revenue receipts of $9 million or more?

 

[Dick Allen]

This is Kenny Williams. He doesn't care what you or I think. And either does Jerry or the board, but they love him. And until he isn't, he's the White Sox GM, who, by the way, is the FIRST GM in 88 years to win a World Series.

While I have no doubt he doesn't care what you or I think, he does care what some think based on his quotes today. As far as winning a WS, that was great, but it doesn't give him a pass the rest of his life. The guy had a $108 million payroll and was a lot closer to having the worst record in baseball than the best. This team has been in freefall since the ASB 2006. Its time he noticed.

KW has shown "confidence" in his roster since the 2006 trade deadline. It hasn't meant much.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Dick Allen

[southsideirish71]

While I have no doubt he doesn't care what you or I think, he does care what some think based on his quotes today. As far as winning a WS, that was great, but it doesn't give him a pass the rest of his life. The guy had a $108 million payroll and was a lot closer to having the worst record in baseball than the best. This team has been in freefall since the ASB 2006. Its time he noticed.

 

If we are spinning into oblivion this year, JR might pull the plug on this and start to sell items off. One more year of being a dog should do enough to put the season ticket numbers back to pre-05 times. The minute the butts are no longer in the seats and he sees the revenue stream moving away is the minute the payroll gets clipped back quite a bit. There is no way JR is taking a loss over a period of time, its not the way that he has been working as an owner. Butts in the seats, payroll at 100 mill. No one at the park, who knows.

 

 

 

[J-MAN]

this was Danks first full season in the majors. Probably the most innings he's pitched in a season. Why throw him out there, cause more stress on his (probably) tired arm WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE?

 

Seriously, I'm disappointed too. But I'm not going to convict the organization for things that were partially out of their control. And one of the reasons the Sox played well in 2005, is BECAUSE of a chip on their shoulder. No one thought they would be THAT good. Hey, I'm not saying this team is going to the playoffs, but I'm also not going to say that it can't or won't happen BEFORE we've hit 2008, either.

 

This is Kenny Williams. He doesn't care what you or I think. And either does Jerry or the board, but they love him. And until he isn't, he's the White Sox GM, who, by the way, is the FIRST GM in 88 years to win a World Series.

 

I agree! I am one fan who is happy we did not grossly overpay Hunter.

 

Cabrera would have been a nice addition but we apparently didn't have the players in the minors to get the deal done.

 

What exactly do people want management to do. I am not happy we lost so many games last year and hope they can improve the team before spring training.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I agree! I am one fan who is happy we did not grossly overpay Hunter.

 

Cabrera would have been a nice addition but we apparently didn't have the players in the minors to get the deal done.

 

What exactly do people want management to do. I am not happy we lost so many games last year and hope they can improve the team before spring training.

 

I would be all for rebuilding or improving the team. I just don't want to hear KW with the line the guys the Sox have are good enough. They are not. Its not even close. He's been using it for the last year and a half, and he's been very wrong.

 

The problem is KW's plan is flawed. He expects a "market correction". He has a weak farm system but doesn't realize other teams will easily trump his offers. He doesn't understand that almost every free agent coming off a big year gets overpaid. He either needs to be prepared to overpay for a guy like Hunter or set his sights lower.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

While I have no doubt he doesn't care what you or I think, he does care what some think based on his quotes today. As far as winning a WS, that was great, but it doesn't give him a pass the rest of his life. The guy had a $108 million payroll and was a lot closer to having the worst record in baseball than the best. This team has been in freefall since the ASB 2006. Its time he noticed.

KW has shown "confidence" in his roster since the 2006 trade deadline. It hasn't meant much.

 

I honestly respect your input, but you continue to have a bit of Mariotti in your comments.

 

I don't want to start this whole crapstorm again, but honestly, at some point players have to get the job done. Ours went from getting it done in stellar fashion (the first half of 06', and everything looked as if it were going exactly to plan), to absolute garbage in the blink of an eye (from about the Boston series right before the 06' ASB until the end of the season). Because of the WS in 05', Kenny had to give the team a bit of a chance to redeem themselves and pay credence to the theory that the run in 05' had negatively affected the team down the stretch in 06'. Therefore, he kept the same core of players around, made some tweaks to the pitching staff and bullpen, but all in all, gave the guys another run at it in 07'.

 

What happened this season was absolutely mystifying on all accounts. Certainly the bullpen failed us, but even had it not, the offense was near the last in the AL. No one could have predicted that after the breakout year the offense had in 06'. And I don't think anyone can predict with ANY certainty what the offense will do next year. The volatile swings in production from 05' to 06' to 07' are anyone's guess. And there will be those that say it is age, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the offense produce far more runs this season after growing a year older. Jim Thome was our best offensive player this season, and he is also the oldest non-pitcher on the team. So I don't buy the age card for Pauly and JD.

 

Anyways, I digress. The point is, Kenny, in my opinion, wasn't in a position to make drastic changes until now. And that, he's tried to do. He acquired a better ss, which everyone was calling for. He acquired a bullpen arm, which everyone was calling for. He tried to acquire one of the best CF options on the market, which everyone has been calling for. He tried to acquire the best young hitter on the market, which many were clamoring for. Unfortunately, he has swung and missed a few times, and will have to make an adjustment to his plans, but I don't understand how one could argue that he hasn't noticed that this team has been in a "freefall" since the ASB of 06'.

 

He clearly understands that. It's simply that he has to work in reality, with what is actually out there. Not like us in our speculative fantasy world.

Edited December 6, 2007 by iamshack

[southsideirish71]

I'm really trying to understand who and what spcifically KW is talking about.

 

What leaked?

Who leaked it?

Who heard about it?

What player(s) did we lose as a result of it?

Is that probable?

 

First of all, this is the second time as far as I can remember Kenny pulled this blame loose lips for his failure to get someone routine.

 

Secondly, leaks happen from multiple sources.

 

1.) The other team might leak it to the general pop to see if someone ups the ante. Oddly the Marlin beat writer had a article on his website that stated that the sox had all but just about landed Cabrera and then woosh the Tigers swoop in.

2.) Telling players or in fact, other people is not the best way to keep a secret. He probably told Torii when he was wooing him. JD called him right after it. When you have some information, its a secret. The minute you tell someone its public knowledge.

3.) Making comments about the "big fish" when Cabrera is a marlin and the biggest catch out there, is not exactly indicative of Sherlock Holmes deductive reasoning.

4.) Dealing with an agent is the easiest way to have everything you say put out for all to see. An agents job is to get the best deal and offer for his client. The more offers, the more likely you are to get a better pay day.

 

I would suggest if Kenny wants to yell at the person responsible. He should stand in front of this, and yell at the person that appears in front of him.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2007 by southsideirish71

[fathom]

I honestly respect your input, but you continue to have a bit of Mariotti in your comments.

 

I don't want to start this whole crapstorm again, but honestly, at some point players have to get the job done. Ours went from getting it done in stellar fashion (the first half of 06', and everything looked as if it were going exactly to plan), to absolute garbage in the blink of an eye (from about the Boston series right before the 06' ASB until the end of the season). Because of the WS in 05', Kenny had to give the team a bit of a chance to redeem themselves and pay credence to the theory that the run in 05' had negatively affected the team down the stretch in 06'. Therefore, he kept the same core of players around, made some tweaks to the pitching staff and bullpen, but all in all, gave the guys another run at it in 07'.

 

What happened this season was absolutely mystifying on all accounts. Certainly the bullpen failed us, but even had it not, the offense was near the last in the AL. No one could have predicted that after the breakout year the offense had in 06'. And I don't think anyone can predict with ANY certainty what the offense will next year. The volatile swings in production from 05' to 06' to 07' are anyone's guess. And there will be those that say it is age, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the offense produce far more runs this season after growing a year older. Jim Thome was our best offensive player this season, and he is also the oldest non-pitcher on the team. So I don't buy the age card for Pauly and JD.

 

Did you watch one game after the ASB in 2006? It was rather easy to see that the offensive players were beginning to see their bat speed decrease.

[iamshack]

Did you watch one game after the ASB in 2006? It was rather easy to see that the offensive players were beginning to see their bat speed decrease.

 

Yeah, I've watched nearly every game since the ASB in 06'.

 

So you're telling me that after the ASB in 06', our entire offense began experiencing decreasing bat speed all at once? These 31, 32 year old guys all began to lose it at the exact same time? Sorry, I'm not buying that. That's absolute nonsense.

[Dick Allen]

I honestly respect your input, but you continue to have a bit of Mariotti in your comments.

 

I don't want to start this whole crapstorm again, but honestly, at some point players have to get the job done. Ours went from getting it done in stellar fashion (the first half of 06', and everything looked as if it were going exactly to plan), to absolute garbage in the blink of an eye (from about the Boston series right before the 06' ASB until the end of the season). Because of the WS in 05', Kenny had to give the team a bit of a chance to redeem themselves and pay credence to the theory that the run in 05' had negatively affected the team down the stretch in 06'. Therefore, he kept the same core of players around, made some tweaks to the pitching staff and bullpen, but all in all, gave the guys another run at it in 07'.

 

What happened this season was absolutely mystifying on all accounts. Certainly the bullpen failed us, but even had it not, the offense was near the last in the AL. No one could have predicted that after the breakout year the offense had in 06'. And I don't think anyone can predict with ANY certainty what the offense will do next year. The volatile swings in production from 05' to 06' to 07' are anyone's guess. And there will be those that say it is age, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the offense produce far more runs this season after growing a year older. Jim Thome was our best offensive player this season, and he is also the oldest non-pitcher on the team. So I don't buy the age card for Pauly and JD.

 

Anyways, I digress. The point is, Kenny, in my opinion, wasn't in a position to make drastic changes until now. And that, he's tried to do. He acquired a better ss, which everyone was calling for. He acquired a bullpen arm, which everyone was calling for. He tried to acquire one of the best CF options on the market, which everyone has been calling for. He tried to acquire the best young hitter on the market, which many were clamoring for. Unfortunately, he has swung and missed a few times, and will have to make an adjustment to his plans, but I don't understand how one could argue that he hasn't noticed that this team has been in a "freefall" since the ASB of 06'.

 

He clearly understands that. It's simply that he has to work in reality, with what is actually out there. Not like us in our speculative fantasy world.

 

Look at the team's individual final numbers even in 2007. Who would you expect to be drastically better in 2008? The guy counted on Podsednik and Erstad in 2007. I don't know how much more you need to know. The pitching staff wasn't so great in 2007. He's added Linebrink and subtracted Garland, and now says the pitching, ranked 12th out of 14th last year, will not be a problem. Why, because he said so?

 

[CanOfCorn]

Look at the team's individual final numbers even in 2007. Who would you expect to be drastically better in 2008? The guy counted on Podsednik and Erstad in 2007. I don't know how much more you need to know. The pitching staff wasn't so great in 2007. He's added Linebrink and subtracted Garland, and now says the pitching, ranked 12th out of 14th last year, will not be a problem. Why, because he said so?

 

Not to be a jerk but, pitching and hitting WILL be a problem next year, because YOU said so?