Winter Meetings

[Soxfest]

From Scott Miller CBS Sportsline in losers section

 

Chicago White Sox: They failed to land Miguel Cabrera, they couldn't snag Torii Hunter, they finished 24 games behind Cleveland last season and 16 games behind Detroit ... and the Tigers are only getting better. Ouch.

 

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10516780

[BlackBetsy]

From Scott Miller CBS Sportsline in losers section

 

Chicago White Sox: They failed to land Miguel Cabrera, they couldn't snag Torii Hunter, they finished 24 games behind Cleveland last season and 16 games behind Detroit ... and the Tigers are only getting better. Ouch.

 

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10516780

 

Heyman says the same - Sox are #1 loser. Link.

[Hatchetman]

Oh guys! Don't be so negative! Just pop some zoloft.

[toasty]

for the sox really having ZERO chance of landing m-cab, everybody is sure tore up about it.

 

 

 

[RME JICO]

Didn't 27 other teams fail to get MCab and Hunter?

[NorthSideSox72]

What a joke. The Sox made one move - Quentin for Carter - which improved the club. And they are the biggest losers?

 

There is exactly one reason the media pundits are panning the Sox' winter meetings performance - KW's speech. He outright lambasted them, and now they are getting him back for it.

 

I guess since they were among 5 teams (at least) trying for Hunter, and probably that many or more for M-Cab, those other teams are losers too, right? And before anyone responds "no", think about what that means.

 

[fathom]

What a joke. The Sox made one move - Quentin for Carter - which improved the club. And they are the biggest losers?

 

There is exactly one reason the media pundits are panning the Sox' winter meetings performance - KW's speech. He outright lambasted them, and now they are getting him back for it.

 

I guess since they were among 5 teams (at least) trying for Hunter, and probably that many or more for M-Cab, those other teams are losers too, right? And before anyone responds "no", think about what that means.

 

Oh please, how can anyone argue that the Sox weren't one of the biggest losers of the Winter Meetings? The Sox desperately needed significant upgrades, and they struck out at the meetings. Quentin is a nice addition, but he's not likely going to be a difference maker for the Sox in terms of finishing in either 3rd or 5th place. I'll never understand KW complaining about the media...I thought they treated KW and Ozzie with kid gloves last year when the team massively underachieved. It will get a lot uglier this year if the team sucks, and it has nothing to do with KW acting like a jerk. Thankfully, there's still a few months to make some moves to get this team possibly closer to the top of the division than the bottom.

Edited December 7, 2007 by fathom

[Dick Allen]

The winter is far from over. The winter meetings except for 1 huge trade was a big bust again. The reason the White Sox were called losers was they apparently were the runners up for the 2 top players.

[NorthSideSox72]

The winter is far from over. The winter meetings except for 1 huge trade was a big bust again. The reason the White Sox were called losers was they apparently were the runners up for the 2 top players.

^^^^

That is the answer to your question, Fathom. Thank you DA.

 

[fathom]

^^^^

That is the answer to your question, Fathom. Thank you DA.

 

Notice the edit I made to my post, even prior to seeing DA's next post. I can confidently say that DA is just as disappointed as I am in what's happened so far this offseason though. I think the fact that the Sox master plan supposedly included signing Hunter and trading for Cabrera makes the perception of things even worse. The funny thing is I don't think the Sox ever really had a shot at Cabrera, and even if Tigers weren't involved, I bet another team would have made a better offer.

Edited December 7, 2007 by fathom

[Dick Allen]

Notice the edit I made to my post, even prior to seeing DA's next post. I can confidently say that DA is just as disappointed as I am in what's happened so far this offseason though.

Very dissapointed would be correct. As you are well aware, I've had visions of Miguel Cabrera in a White Sox uniform for a long time. They are called losers because their biggest targets went elsewhere. As you know, I think a rebuild is in order, but KW thinks otherwise. We will see what happens, but despite nothing huge but the one trade happening during the winter meetings, I would think up until now, when the 2 biggest offseason targets are misses, the White Sox are currently the biggest losers. But there's still time to change things.

[southsider2k5]

So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively?

[NorthSideSox72]

Notice the edit I made to my post, even prior to seeing DA's next post. I can confidently say that DA is just as disappointed as I am in what's happened so far this offseason though.

Do you think I didn't want M-Cab as well? And Hunter, if that was possible? I'd like it if we had Brian Roberts too, and Erik Bedard, and for that matter A-Rod, and Derek Jeter, and any number of other players. Except here is the thing - M-Cab was a HUUUUUUUUUGE reach for the Sox. Yeah, obviously Kenny wanted to take a shot at him. Great. But he knew, and most of us knew, that the team had no better than a 5% shot at him. So, to me, him taking a shot wasn't a failure - it was the smart thing to do.

 

I think this is an issue of expectations. This offseason, I want the team to improve a lot, particularly at CF, LF, SS, bullpen, and maybe an SP and maybe 2B. As far as I can tell, they've ticked off 2 or 3 of those. Still waiting on CF and an SP, of course. I also expected them to turn loose of Erstad, Pods, Cintron, Myers and Gonzalez. They've done all but one of those.

 

Now given that DET and CLE are so stacked, it is CRITICAL that CF and an SP are improved, and it would be helpful if they could also do a bit with the bench and maybe 2B, possibly. But there is of course still a lot of time. If they can do those things, I think this team is competitive for a playoff spot in 2008. And that is a big improvement over the sad state of affairs that was the 2007 Sox.

 

So in my view, SO FAR, its been a successful offseason. But we'll know for sure on April 1st.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively?

Because those GM's didn't verbally pummel the media who are writing the "standard".

 

Also, the Red Sox and Yankees always get the special benefit of the doubt.

 

And how about Texas? What about the Cubs? Those are teams who had big goals and did zip.

 

[fathom]

Because those GM's didn't verbally pummel the media who are writing the "standard".

 

Also, the Red Sox and Yankees always get the special benefit of the doubt.

 

And how about Texas? What about the Cubs? Those are teams who had big goals and did zip.

 

The Cubs main target hasn't decided yet (and everyone knows they'll get Fukudome). Does anyone really care about the Rangers? Do you honestly believe that the winter meetings were a positive for this franchise, in regards to competing in the AL Central for the next few years? If so, that's where our difference of opinion is.

[fathom]

So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively?

 

Maybe because those teams won a lot more than 70 games last season, and don't need the significant upgrades like the Sox do?

[longshot7]

MCab?! Oh God...........

[Dick Allen]

So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively?

The Angels got the White Sox #1 target.

I think part of it is it is assumed 72 win veteran teams generally need a little more to contend than the others. Since it was reported that KW gave Cabrera and Hunter as the names to excite his veterans into re-signing, and it was thought they were the White Sox 2 main targets, and they missed out on both, and that Santana and Bay haven't been moved so its still possible the Yankees Red Sox and Cleveland still may have a shot at them, its an easy assumption that if you have plan A to plan ZZZ, the White Sox are probably farther down the list than the others, which would make them thus far the biggest losers, but its been pointed out, the season doesn't start tomorrow.

[fathom]

The thing is, everyone was saying how the Sox were swinging and missing during the meetings even prior to KW's pathetic outburst. I don't think this is the media's revenge on him. Shockingly, the media has been kind to him on this as well. Maybe it's due to the Bears having a Thursday game.

[NorthSideSox72]

The Cubs main target hasn't decided yet (and everyone knows they'll get Fukudome). Does anyone really care about the Rangers? Do you honestly believe that the winter meetings were a positive for this franchise, in regards to competing in the AL Central for the next few years? If so, that's where our difference of opinion is.

The Sox made one deal - the Quentin/Carter deal - right? Unless I missed something?

 

That's a small positive move. Therefore, I think it was a small positive period for the team.

 

And I think the moves before then - the drops of various people, and the O-Cab trade - were positive as well.

 

But before you go painting me into some sort of corner where I think everything is perfect - I do not. If the Sox fail to make another couple significant improvements, I think the best the team can realistically hope for (barring half the DET or CLE core being in the Mitchell report or injured) is 3rd place in the ALC.

 

ETA: Oh and, I would take a few points away for KW's outburst towards other GM's. That was potentially damaging for the rest of the offseason.

 

[RME JICO]

You can't be losers if you didn't lose anything. The Sox may not have been a winner during the Winter meetings, but they weren't the biggest losers either. That is just silly.

 

It was just another boring Winter Meetings, and writers are reaching for anything to write about.

Edited December 7, 2007 by RME JICO

[whitesoxfan101]

What a joke. The Sox made one move - Quentin for Carter - which improved the club. And they are the biggest losers?

 

There is exactly one reason the media pundits are panning the Sox' winter meetings performance - KW's speech. He outright lambasted them, and now they are getting him back for it.

 

I guess since they were among 5 teams (at least) trying for Hunter, and probably that many or more for M-Cab, those other teams are losers too, right? And before anyone responds "no", think about what that means.

 

That's cute and all, but your aware we have the 4th best team (out of 5) in the AL Central, the 29th best (out of 30) minor league system in baseball, and have gone from the best to one of the worst teams in baseball in a matter of 26 months right? We were the biggest loser, KW and the Sox fans in denial need to get over it, quit whining, and realize we suck unless MAJOR changes are made. And KW in general needs to fix this disaster before we go back to having 10,000 fans a game at The Cell.

 

Was the winter meeting a small positive for us based on one move? Yes, but Detroit got A LOT better and Cleveland still is A LOT better than us, while Minnesota is also still better than us.

Edited December 7, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[whitesoxfan101]

So if missing out on big players was the standard for being the biggest losers at the winter meetings, why weren't Anaheim, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and Cleveland on this list after missing out on Cabrera, Santana, Santana, and Bay respectively?

 

They aren't on the list because they all made the playoffs last year and we won 72 games and finished in 4th place, thus unlike those teams, we have to get A LOT better. How hard is that to understand??

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm just going to say three more things, and then leave this thread to the soothsayers...

 

1. The Sox made one deal in the winter meetings - and it helped the club.

 

2. Do any of you own a calendar?

 

3. If the Opening Day roster looks like it does right now, then I'll be right there saying this is, at best, a 3rd place-caliber team in the ALC, and maybe worse.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm just going to say three more things, and then leave this thread to the soothsayers...

 

1. The Sox made one deal in the winter meetings - and it helped the club.

 

2. Do any of you own a calendar?

 

3. If the Opening Day roster looks like it does right now, then I'll be right there saying this is, at best, a 3rd place-caliber team in the ALC, and maybe worse.

 

The Sox made a deal that helped the club, but that was putting a band aid on a severed artery. Much more needs to be done, it wasn't done at the place where lots of things tend to be done (Winter meetings), many of the best FA's and trade options are off the market, and that is why we are a loser, not because the media has a vendetta against our mentally unstable GM. And yes I own a calendar, and it says it's December and our team has lost out on a lot of free agents and trade options that it needs if we are going to "win now" like our GM always preaches.

Edited December 7, 2007 by whitesoxfan101