Winter Meetings

[southsider2k5]

They aren't on the list because they all made the playoffs last year and we won 72 games and finished in 4th place, thus unlike those teams, we have to get A LOT better. How hard is that to understand??

 

Then why didn't they call the list, winners who won a lot of game last year, and the losers who lost a bunch of games last year and reliving those moments? if being a bad team was the prerequisite for being on the list, how come the rest of the bad teams weren't on the list?

 

It was the winners and losers of the winter meetings, how hard is reading?

[Dick Allen]

Then why didn't they call the list, winners who won a lot of game last year, and the losers who lost a bunch of games last year and reliving those moments? if being a bad team was the prerequisite for being on the list, how come the rest of the bad teams weren't on the list?

 

It was the winners and losers of the winter meetings, how hard is reading?

And the White Sox lost out on their top 2 targets? Who else has?

[whitesoxfan101]

Then why didn't they call the list, winners who won a lot of game last year, and the losers who lost a bunch of games last year and reliving those moments? if being a bad team was the prerequisite for being on the list, how come the rest of the bad teams weren't on the list?

 

It was the winners and losers of the winter meetings, how hard is reading?

 

Winners and losers of the winter meeting isn't just who made the best moves, it's who got better and who got worse, which is why we're such a loser. We sat idle except for one modest trade, while Detroit made the biggest move of the offseason, and Minnesota and Cleveland have stayed together and thus remain much better than us. The only way we are a winner this offseason in any regard is if KW makes tangible and major moves to fix this disaster, and that doesn't seem likely considering plans A through E are already on other teams.

Edited December 7, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Rowand44]

And the White Sox lost out on their top 2 targets? Who else has?

Probably a lot of teams that we don't know about.

 

[Dick Allen]

Probably a lot of teams that we don't know about.

You are probably right, but for the White Sox it became public knowledge.

[southsider2k5]

And the White Sox lost out on their top 2 targets? Who else has?

 

Lots of teams have lost out on their top targets because players can't go to more than one team. Hell Kansas City chased Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and others. Then they go out and their 4th choice, a guy who is getting suspended for about 10% of the season, and yet they aren't on the list.

[whitesoxfan101]

You are probably right, but for the White Sox it became public knowledge.

 

Yeah, since our GM and manager can't shut up, and then blame their own loud mouths on the media somehow after they fail to get their top targets and the fanbase understandably gets pissed.

[Dick Allen]

Lots of teams have lost out on their top targets because players can't go to more than one team. Hell Kansas City chased Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and others. Then they go out and their 4th choice, a guy who is getting suspended for about 10% of the season, and yet they aren't on the list.

KC hasn't publicly proclaimed themselves serious contenders in 2008.

[whitesoxfan101]

Lots of teams have lost out on their top targets because players can't go to more than one team. Hell Kansas City chased Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and others. Then they go out and their 4th choice, a guy who is getting suspended for about 10% of the season, and yet they aren't on the list.

 

Nobody expects KC to be good, hell they were so bad last year they somehow finished with a worse record than us. People are naturally going to jump on the big market team who won a championship barely more than 2 calendar years ago, missed out on top targets that THEY couldn't shut up about, and have done nothing to improve a 72-90 team outside of overpay for a relief pitcher on the decline, trade a quality SP for a 33 year old SS in a contract year, and acquire an OF with a really bad shoulder problem.

Edited December 7, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Soxbadger]

Yes but none of that really makes the Sox the biggest "losers".

 

IF the article was "team with the greatest expectations that did the least" then sure the White Sox could be the top candidate.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

I just think there are a lot of people who flatly refuse to ever consider the White Sox "losers" in any sense of the term unless it's absolutely literal -- "they lost to X by a score of X and X". With that in mind, here's why they are the biggest losers in the deal:

 

1. They have a terrible team and failed to upgrade it.

1.a) Their targets -- Hunter, who was the clear #1, and Cabrera, who was their greatest fantasy -- went elsewhere, including their division rival, leading to

2. The Red Sox and Yankees are in as good a shape as before, to be Kings of the East and WC; the Indians have a damn good ballclub and don't need huge changes or an overhaul; the Dodgers picked up their center fielder, middle-of-the-order-hitter; Angels' rivals didn't do s*** to beat them out.

2.a) Even if another team -- say, the Cubs -- loses out on their target (Fukodome) they can't be the "biggest losers" because they're in a bad division with what might well be the best team in that s***ty division; they are, after all, the returning division champions.

 

Further, after this, there isn't much that the White Sox can do to fix their club, is it? Who are they going to trade for to match them up, on paper, with the Tigers or the Indians? It's effectively over. What you see -- short of a rebuilding -- is what you get, essentially, because there is little else we can do at this time, what with the limited options available.

[hitlesswonder]

Oh please, how can anyone argue that the Sox weren't one of the biggest losers of the Winter Meetings?

 

The Sox already had a bad team, all the winter meetings did was not change that. I suppose it's reasonable to say that they were big losers because KW's "plan" fell apart. But that's just because his plan was public. How is Baltimore's plan coming along? Or the Mets (they arguably got worse and failed to address pitching)? And really -- the biggest losers of the winter meeting were fans of the Marlins as Loria pissed all over them again.

 

It's a throwaway column.

 

[Soxbadger]

Pratt,

 

How does biggest loser's have anything to do with where a team is going to finish in its division?

 

Does that mean Orioles are the biggest losers because they have an aging veteran team thats going no where in a division that has the 2 top spending teams?

 

Maybe Im old fashioned, by when I hear "Biggest loser of the winter meeting."

 

It means:

 

A) The team made a horrific trade or signing.

 

B ) The team failed to get a realistic target.

 

In terms of A, I think the Carter Quentin trade was a steal for the Sox.

 

In terms of B, I dont consider Hunter at his contract a realistic option, nor do I consider trading for Cabrera realistic either. In fact had the Sox signed Hunter to that contract I would have been much more willing to label them the biggest loser. As it is, the fact they missed on Hunter I think is a win.

 

/shrugs

 

That does not mean I think the Sox will win the division, but it does mean if you just take the Winter Meetings by themselves its impossible to call the Sox the biggest losers.

 

But then again I like my journalism with a little integrity and research.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Soxbadger

[sircaffey]

A team desperate for changes led by one of the most aggressive GMs in the league does nothing, should be considered losers. Add into this that we are self proclaimed "contenders" and we are even bigger losers for A) not having done anything and B) seeing Detroit get considerably stronger. And we still are holding 2 3B and 2 SS. There is plenty of time left, but we are certainly one of the biggest losers from the meetings. Not sure why people are surprised at this notion.

[RockRaines]

And the White Sox lost out on their top 2 targets? Who else has?

dodgers, giants, yankees, red sox, mets, orioles, phillies, cle, AZ, Col

[Dick Allen]

dodgers, giants, yankees, red sox, mets, orioles, phillies, cle, AZ, Col

Who, don't say Santana he's still out there. The White Sox top 2 are gone, and that's why Kenny cried.

[sircaffey]

Everyone knows we are "going for it" because we think we can contend within the division. Then Detroit goes and adds one of the top 5 hitters in the majors and a good SP while we do nothing, and of course we should be viewed as losers. Our pathetic attempt at contending got more pathetic at the meetings.

[max power]

Dontrelle willis is a good SP? Personally, I don't think so. He struggled badly in the NL, last year, now he is coming to the AL. I expect him to be mediocre at best.

[Dick Allen]

Everyone knows we are "going for it" because we think we can contend within the division. Then Detroit goes and adds one of the top 5 hitters in the majors and a good SP while we do nothing, and of course we should be viewed as losers. Our pathetic attempt at contending got more pathetic at the meetings.

All KW's fans will always mention 2005. The White Sox were 52-22 in the division that year. Its hard to see that happening again anytime soon. Even in 2005 they were .500 against the East and West.

[Dick Allen]

Dontrelle willis is a good SP? Personally, I don't think so. He struggled badly in the NL, last year, now he is coming to the AL. I expect him to be mediocre at best.

Depends. A lot of people thought he was hurt. He could bounce back. Vazquez wasn't too impressive in the NL the season before KW traded for him, and a lot of people were doing cartwheels KW got him. Really, Willis is a guy who could go either way, but he was part of the price for Cabrera.

[max power]

All KW's fans will always mention 2005. The White Sox were 52-22 in the division that year. Its hard to see that happening again anytime soon. Even in 2005 they were .500 against the East and West.

What was our record against the central last year?

[RockRaines]

Who, don't say Santana he's still out there. The White Sox top 2 are gone, and that's why Kenny cried.

Those teams top 2's are gone too. IM sure they all cried. From what I understand, plan A was Hunter, plan B was O Cabrera, which he got. All of the reports that have come out in the last few days state that the Sox werent even close for MCab, so we didnt lose s***.

[Dick Allen]

What was our record against the central last year?

39-33, and still finished 24 games out.

[RockRaines]

Depends. A lot of people thought he was hurt. He could bounce back. Vazquez wasn't too impressive in the NL the season before KW traded for him, and a lot of people were doing cartwheels KW got him. Really, Willis is a guy who could go either way, but he was part of the price for Cabrera.

Vaz has tremendously better overall stuff than a gimmicky Willis.

[Soxbadger]

And hunter is a negative. Im sorry but half of you are claiming you want to rebuild, and Hunter would have made that so much harder.

 

Spending money just to spend is not good business.