Kenny not worried about Danks & Floyd as #4 & 5

[DBAHO]

Well he's obviously putting the pressure on them to get results, and frankly I don't know if it's the best way to motivate them or whatever.

 

All we can hope for, is that we get the Danks we saw in the 1st half of 2007 and the Floyd we saw in the last 6 starts of 2007.

 

I think we'll get that in parts, but certainly not for a whole season, because there will definitely be parts of inconsistency here and there, it always pretty much happens for a young pitcher.

 

Am I confident about them? I'll be happy if either can put up an ERA below 5.

[Kalapse]

I would of liked to have seen some younger prospects brought over for Garland, but you can't knock the move. I forget, you are Mr. Go for it all the time. You would burn him this season in the miniscule chance for 75 wins over 72 because draft picks mean nothing.

Getting something for Jon better than nothing.

At least if Sox finish in 4th place next year Orlando will bring you 2 high draft picks if he walks unlike Garland who's only going to bring you 1.

[Gregory Pratt]

I don't agree. He had an excellent season in Charlotte and made significant improvements as the season went along. Check out his game log. The huge improvement in K/BB clearly demonstrates improved command and confidence.

 

And in his last 6 starts with the Sox, his command and his curveball were very impressive both from the windup and the stretch. (His curveball was downright nasty.)

 

3.40 ERA in those starts? 5 quality starts in 6 outings??

 

Will that carry over into next year? Who knows? But let's hope so.

 

1. Charlotte, and the IL, are lousy; plus he's old, in experience and age, for that league. Heath Phillips whooped that league in 06.

2. I disagree that he looked nasty and impressive in his last six starts, but everybody here goes after me and DA when we pointed out that

a) September starts are generally meaningless

B) He really didn't look all that hot watching those games, even if you're not counting "September stats for a loser"

3. I concede, however, that there is "hope" for Floyd to have a good year next year. There is always hope...

[southsideirish71]

1. Charlotte, and the IL, are lousy; plus he's old, in experience and age, for that league. Heath Phillips whooped that league in 06.

2. I disagree that he looked nasty and impressive in his last six starts, but everybody here goes after me and DA when we pointed out that

a) September starts are generally meaningless

B) He really didn't look all that hot watching those games, even if you're not counting "September stats for a loser"

3. I concede, however, that there is "hope" for Floyd to have a good year next year. There is always hope...

 

1.) Charlotte is a bandbox.

2.) Poop colored glasses

a.) Because the Tigers and the Indians took the month off because everything was already decided.

b.) You hate him, so again see #2

3.)

 

 

[mr_genius]

relying on Contreras and Floyd is a risky move. Hell, if Danks, Contreras and Floyd put up similar ERA's to what they did last season the starting rotation is crap.

[Gregory Pratt]

1.) Charlotte is a bandbox.

2.) Poop colored glasses

a.) Because the Tigers and the Indians took the month off because everything was already decided.

b.) You hate him, so again see #2

3.)

 

1. So? Timo was the All Star MVP, wasn't he? And Heath Phillips dominated that league. It is an atrocious league, and he makes starts in places other than Charlotte, sorry -- that an "old" (age and experience) pitcher beats up on that league means s***.

2. No.

a.) The Tigers lineups, and the size of that field, helped Gavin more than you can now; and Cleveland? They faced him in the rain -- the fortune of circumstance! (I also believe many starters were out.)

b.) I don't hate him -- I just know who he is, and I'm not going to pretend that him starting for the White Sox is anything but trouble.

3.

[ptatc]

1. So? Timo was the All Star MVP, wasn't he? And Heath Phillips dominated that league. It is an atrocious league, and he makes starts in places other than Charlotte, sorry -- that an "old" (age and experience) pitcher beats up on that league means s***.

2. No.

a.) The Tigers lineups, and the size of that field, helped Gavin more than you can now; and Cleveland? They faced him in the rain -- the fortune of circumstance! (I also believe many starters were out.)

b.) I don't hate him -- I just know who he is, and I'm not going to pretend that him starting for the White Sox is anything but trouble.

3.

 

Rich Hill was at Iowa until he was 26, he was older than Gavin. Hill had decent success for the Cubs. I would be pleased if he performed as well as Hill.

[Dick Allen]

See Gavin Floyd September 2004. Unfortunately his September numbers meant didley in 2005,2006 and 2007. It would be unwise to count on anything from him, just be pleasantly surprised if you get anything.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Dick Allen

[Gregory Pratt]

1.Poop colored glasses.

2.Yes.

2a..Damn Detroit and there big fieLdzzz. I suppose I should throw out all of the home starts of Bonderman,Verlander, Rogers, ect? because of the park they play in? I had no idea Detroit wasn't "regulation size". Oh, and the lineup featured Sizemore-Hafner-Victor-Garko-Lofton. Check the box.

3.

 

I wish I had someone as faithful as you to defend me whenever someone hurts my feelings.

 

1. Anchorman! "Poop...poop mouth!"

2. Setting and circumstance is integral to judging; Floyd was beat up by a bad team and escaped homeruns because that field is huge. PS: there is no "regulation" size, but there's clearly a difference between pitching for the Tigers and the Padres and other teams. Anything else you draw from that is an inference you're making to defend Floyd because heaven forbid someone say he sucks. (The Cleveland game was in the hard rain; circumstance favored him very much.)

3. You do have nice tits. I'm happy to look.

 

Addendum: DA = smart, 2004 September = good, Floyd = bad, 2007 September = 2004 September = jack.

[daa84]

i dont think hes necessarily counting on floyd, but the thing is that there are options there should he falter (or danks for that matter)....realistically haeger, broadway, gio, sisco, masset egbert could all make a push for that 5th starter spot....yes it may turn into rauch/wright/munoz/felix diaz but at this stage i actually dont mind seeing what these guys have....we arent gonna realistically compete, so why not see what some of these youngsters (including floyd) can do for the year? i guess a logical rebuttal would be because kenny is still trying to go for it, but imo he is trying to go for it while trying to rebuilding, and its about that time that we start seeing what some of these young pitchers have

[DBAHO]

2. Setting and circumstance is integral to judging; Floyd was beat up by a bad team and escaped homeruns because that field is huge. PS: there is no "regulation" size, but there's clearly a difference between pitching for the Tigers and the Padres and other teams. Anything else you draw from that is an inference you're making to defend Floyd because heaven forbid someone say he sucks. (The Cleveland game was in the hard rain; circumstance favored him very much.)

Wasn't this the same argument people used against Brandon McCarthy when he was 1st up with the Sox, in terms he would have given up home runs if he was pitching at the Cell instead of Comerica etc.?

 

And look I don't know how Floyd will do next season. I didn't see him at all in 2007, because I'm lucky if I get to watch 2 or 3 Sox games a season (1 of them was seeing Jose give up 7 or 8 runs against Boston in the 7th or 8th at Fenway). So I probably go off the numbers more than anyone here (and yeah that can be a bad idea).

 

Is Floyd going to do what he did in his last 6 starts for all of 2008? I'd say there's less than a 2% chance of that. But I think something below 5 is possible for him. New pitchers such as Vazquez improved in their 2nd season under Coop, so I'm hoping Danks and Floyd can do the same.

[Gregory Pratt]

Brandon McCarthy isn't that good, either, but he's much better than Floyd.

[BearSox]

Brandon McCarthy isn't that good, either, but he's much better than Floyd.

that's still to be seen... I've always thought McCarthy was overrated.

[Gregory Pratt]

that's still to be seen... I've always thought McCarthy was overrated.

 

I definitely agree. I've been very vocal about that -- but he's still much better than Floyd.

[DBAHO]

Brandon McCarthy isn't that good, either, but he's much better than Floyd.

Stuff wise I don't know if there's a huge difference, B-Mac probably has a better change, and he's certainly proven a bit more.

 

But we'll see how Floyd does. He's basically at the same situation where B-Mac was coming into 2006, except he's not getting moved into the pen.

[Gregory Pratt]

Stuff wise I don't know if there's a huge difference, B-Mac probably has a better change, and he's certainly proven a bit more.

 

But we'll see how Floyd does. He's basically at the same situation where B-Mac was coming into 2006, except he's not getting moved into the pen.

 

They're in the same basic situation in the same way that they're two pitchers. The key differences between them are that Brandon McCarthy had pitched some FANTASTIC innings for the White Sox and not only pitched fantastic innings but was during a World Series hunt and excepting the fact that McCarthy was always very good in the minors, too, so he had sustained some good success while Floyd hadn't.

[BearSox]

I definitely agree. I've been very vocal about that -- but he's still much better than Floyd.

Well, FLoyd has better stuff, but McCarthy is the better "pitcher", as Hawk would put it, as of now.

 

In fact, I will go on record saying that Floyd will put up a better line then McCarthy in the 2008 season.

[BearSox]

They're in the same basic situation in the same way that they're two pitchers. The key differences between them are that Brandon McCarthy had pitched some FANTASTIC innings for the White Sox and not only pitched fantastic innings but was during a World Series hunt and excepting the fact that McCarthy was always very good in the minors, too, so he had sustained some good success while Floyd hadn't.

 

Yeah, Floyd's never had a good minor league season...

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/gavin-floyd.shtml

[Gregory Pratt]

1. Nobody said that he had never had good innings or even a few good "years"; I said McCarthy had had good, sustained success in the minors and good success in the Majors and so the situations were different, so let's not mischaracterize the declaration.

2. Floyd doesn't have anything notable in his repoitoire. A curve that is nasty one time out of ten, a flat fastball with no speed, and all of his pitches die from the stretch.

 

EDIT: For that matter, McCarthy has nothing noteworthy in his repoitoire, either.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Gregory Pratt

[greg775]

Getting something for Jon better than nothing.

 

I don't get this philosophy.

Who says we couldn't get MORE for him than what we got?

 

[toasty]

the people that suspect we could have gotten more for Jon may forget that if his shoulder 'knot' doesnt straighten out, he could be worse off, and not worth as much at the trade deadline, if he doesnt have a good 1st half.

[CanOfCorn]

1. Nobody said that he had never had good innings or even a few good "years"; I said McCarthy had had good, sustained success in the minors and good success in the Majors and so the situations were different, so let's not mischaracterize the declaration.

2. Floyd doesn't have anything notable in his repoitoire. A curve that is nasty one time out of ten, a flat fastball with no speed, and all of his pitches die from the stretch.

 

EDIT: For that matter, McCarthy has nothing noteworthy in his repoitoire, either.

 

Have you seen him pitch in 2008? Isn't it possible, just possible, that maybe he learned to put some movement on that fastball? Or that, maybe 6 of 10 curves are nasty? You think Coop has him on an offseason work schedule? Maybe learn another pitch? Until they actually start, there's no reason to say one or all of our pitchers are better, worse, the same, than any other season or pitcher. Especially with younger pitchers like Floyd, Danks, etc.

[Chombi]

the people that suspect we could have gotten more for Jon may forget that if his shoulder 'knot' doesnt straighten out, he could be worse off, and not worth as much at the trade deadline, if he doesnt have a good 1st half.

 

That is true but I was reading an article on Foxsports today (forget which one at the moment) but it was talking about how are field has been the most homer prone in recent history. I think it was in regards to a Juan Pierre move or something, I forget what though right now. Just blanking.

 

Either way, I sometimes do forget how much of an offensive park we have. Mix it with the AL, in particular AL central and guys like Garland and Buehrle take me back to the underrated conversations I used to have with friends.

 

I fail to understand why more stock never goes into that when teams are looking at our arms. Garland to me fetched enough. I would've prefered the value in prospects, but assuming arb. is offered next offseason and rejected, the two picks we are looking at potentially for an A type player like Cabrera is better then the 1 we would've got for Garland.

[RockRaines]

Any other team has two top picks anchoring the bottom of their rotation and this board applauds them for not only acquiring such talent, but also having the foresight to make sure parts of their rotation are in tact for low cost. They are on the White Sox, and our GM is a liar, a fraud, and should be out of a job.

[Dick Allen]

We should all be thankful that Kenny Williams doesn't sell crack or any other hard drugs. Considering people are actually buying the pitching won't be a problem when 40% of the rotation is Gavin Floyd he of the career 8-10 record 6.30 ERA, and John Danks 6-13 record he of the 5.50 career ERA. Another part of the rotation is Jose Contreras, a guy I do like, but a guy coming off a year that was awful. The White Sox #5 pitcher in 2006 in now the #2 guy. I'm thinking if they buy KW saying the pitching won't be a problem, they would buy just about anything he sells.