While I was out (RE: Det + Miggy, KW, etc)

[Steve9347]

I've been out for awhile, and just wanted to add my $.02 to just about everything.

 

Huge trade for Detroit. Landing Miguel Cabrera will be great for their franchise... but at what cost? Andrew Miller will be the better pitcher than D-Train as early as 2009, and they gave up Maybin to boot (not to mention 4 other prospects of varying significance.) Sure, having Cabrera is great, but if he doens't re-sign with the Tigers they are in big trouble, though having Porcello in their system helps. This is a deal that could work out for them, but their offense was already sick so as far as it really making them that much better, I am unsure... it does give them a young monster in an aging lineup, so like I said, if they re-sign Cabrera, it works out... but if not... D-Train will get destroyed in the AL Central.

 

So, everyone was pretty happy with the direction Kenny was going after getting Carlos Quentin, then Detroit makes a move and the world ends. I'm sorry, were we heading to a World Series before Detroit landed Cabrera? The reaction on this board was a joke... I say at least KW tried, he put everything the Sox could offer out there, and was just beaten by a better offer. So this makes him realize that his players aren't as great and perhaps more emphasis goes toward scouting in the future.

 

What I hope happens from here on out in this 07-08 offseason.

 

1) KW pulls off a Joe Crede for Chone Figgins swap without adding much more than an Andy Sisco type heading back to Anaheim. Say what you will, Figgins would be a perfect fit in this lineup.

 

2) We ignore Kosuke Fukudome. Come on, $10+ mill for a guy who's never taken an ML at bat? Sorry, no thanks.

 

3) We sign Aaron Rowand. This allows Figgins to play 2B, and also gets away from Danny Richar being the permanent 2B. That has bad news written all over it. I never thought I'd be rooting for a Rowand signing, but at this point it looks like the White Sox have the power, with the Rangers even shoring up CF. Rowand's cost will come down, and the Sox will get him for something like 3-years, $12.5 million per. I can live with that.

 

Those three things would make me feel better about watching the 2008 season. But I'll be there regardless.

[southsideirish71]

I've been out for awhile, and just wanted to add my $.02 to just about everything.

 

Huge trade for Detroit. Landing Miguel Cabrera will be great for their franchise... but at what cost? Andrew Miller will be the better pitcher than D-Train as early as 2009, and they gave up Maybin to boot (not to mention 4 other prospects of varying significance.) Sure, having Cabrera is great, but if he doens't re-sign with the Tigers they are in big trouble, though having Porcello in their system helps. This is a deal that could work out for them, but their offense was already sick so as far as it really making them that much better, I am unsure... it does give them a young monster in an aging lineup, so like I said, if they re-sign Cabrera, it works out... but if not... D-Train will get destroyed in the AL Central.

 

So, everyone was pretty happy with the direction Kenny was going after getting Carlos Quentin, then Detroit makes a move and the world ends. I'm sorry, were we heading to a World Series before Detroit landed Cabrera? The reaction on this board was a joke... I say at least KW tried, he put everything the Sox could offer out there, and was just beaten by a better offer. So this makes him realize that his players aren't as great and perhaps more emphasis goes toward scouting in the future.

 

What I hope happens from here on out in this 07-08 offseason.

 

1) KW pulls off a Joe Crede for Chone Figgins swap without adding much more than an Andy Sisco type heading back to Anaheim. Say what you will, Figgins would be a perfect fit in this lineup.

 

2) We ignore Kosuke Fukudome. Come on, $10+ mill for a guy who's never taken an ML at bat? Sorry, no thanks.

 

3) We sign Aaron Rowand. This allows Figgins to play 2B, and also gets away from Danny Richar being the permanent 2B. That has bad news written all over it. I never thought I'd be rooting for a Rowand signing, but at this point it looks like the White Sox have the power, with the Rangers even shoring up CF. Rowand's cost will come down, and the Sox will get him for something like 3-years, $12.5 million per. I can live with that.

 

Those three things would make me feel better about watching the 2008 season. But I'll be there regardless.

 

Do you really think we just burned one of our best position prospects only to give up on a guy after 2 months. Why does Danny have bad news written all over him. How many players would of been dumped over that model before they had a chance. We are not competing this year, so lets see what the kid can do before we start replacing people.

 

[GreatScott82]

I've been out for awhile, and just wanted to add my $.02 to just about everything.

 

Huge trade for Detroit. Landing Miguel Cabrera will be great for their franchise... but at what cost? Andrew Miller will be the better pitcher than D-Train as early as 2009, and they gave up Maybin to boot (not to mention 4 other prospects of varying significance.) Sure, having Cabrera is great, but if he doens't re-sign with the Tigers they are in big trouble, though having Porcello in their system helps. This is a deal that could work out for them, but their offense was already sick so as far as it really making them that much better, I am unsure... it does give them a young monster in an aging lineup, so like I said, if they re-sign Cabrera, it works out... but if not... D-Train will get destroyed in the AL Central.

 

So, everyone was pretty happy with the direction Kenny was going after getting Carlos Quentin, then Detroit makes a move and the world ends. I'm sorry, were we heading to a World Series before Detroit landed Cabrera? The reaction on this board was a joke... I say at least KW tried, he put everything the Sox could offer out there, and was just beaten by a better offer. So this makes him realize that his players aren't as great and perhaps more emphasis goes toward scouting in the future.

 

What I hope happens from here on out in this 07-08 offseason.

 

1) KW pulls off a Joe Crede for Chone Figgins swap without adding much more than an Andy Sisco type heading back to Anaheim. Say what you will, Figgins would be a perfect fit in this lineup.

 

2) We ignore Kosuke Fukudome. Come on, $10+ mill for a guy who's never taken an ML at bat? Sorry, no thanks.

 

3) We sign Aaron Rowand. This allows Figgins to play 2B, and also gets away from Danny Richar being the permanent 2B. That has bad news written all over it. I never thought I'd be rooting for a Rowand signing, but at this point it looks like the White Sox have the power, with the Rangers even shoring up CF. Rowand's cost will come down, and the Sox will get him for something like 3-years, $12.5 million per. I can live with that.

 

Those three things would make me feel better about watching the 2008 season. But I'll be there regardless.

Good post broham.

1) Figgins would be a great 2B and leadoff guy on our team. But would Anahiem sacrifice their #1 and #2 guys in one offseason to the same team? How bad do they need a guy like Crede?

2) I was looking into Fukudome and heard his season was limited last year due to a season ending surgery. That is not very promising. He'll probably be a servicable player.. but i don't think he'll be that instant impact that the Cubs think he'll be.

3) Rowand is indeed the best option left out there. So no need to be stubborn about it... he wants to come back, he's the best free agent remaining out there, he'll improve our overall lineup and will improve the clubhouse. I think a 4 year 12mill deal would get hime here with a 5th year team option... Oh and you better give him a NTC for at least his first 2 years back... im sure he doesn't want to go through being traded again.

[BBaum21]

I've been out for awhile, and just wanted to add my $.02 to just about everything.

 

Huge trade for Detroit. Landing Miguel Cabrera will be great for their franchise... but at what cost? Andrew Miller will be the better pitcher than D-Train as early as 2009, and they gave up Maybin to boot (not to mention 4 other prospects of varying significance.) Sure, having Cabrera is great, but if he doens't re-sign with the Tigers they are in big trouble, though having Porcello in their system helps. This is a deal that could work out for them, but their offense was already sick so as far as it really making them that much better, I am unsure... it does give them a young monster in an aging lineup, so like I said, if they re-sign Cabrera, it works out... but if not... D-Train will get destroyed in the AL Central.

 

So, everyone was pretty happy with the direction Kenny was going after getting Carlos Quentin, then Detroit makes a move and the world ends. I'm sorry, were we heading to a World Series before Detroit landed Cabrera? The reaction on this board was a joke... I say at least KW tried, he put everything the Sox could offer out there, and was just beaten by a better offer. So this makes him realize that his players aren't as great and perhaps more emphasis goes toward scouting in the future.

 

What I hope happens from here on out in this 07-08 offseason.

 

1) KW pulls off a Joe Crede for Chone Figgins swap without adding much more than an Andy Sisco type heading back to Anaheim. Say what you will, Figgins would be a perfect fit in this lineup.

 

2) We ignore Kosuke Fukudome. Come on, $10+ mill for a guy who's never taken an ML at bat? Sorry, no thanks.

 

3) We sign Aaron Rowand. This allows Figgins to play 2B, and also gets away from Danny Richar being the permanent 2B. That has bad news written all over it. I never thought I'd be rooting for a Rowand signing, but at this point it looks like the White Sox have the power, with the Rangers even shoring up CF. Rowand's cost will come down, and the Sox will get him for something like 3-years, $12.5 million per. I can live with that.

 

Those three things would make me feel better about watching the 2008 season. But I'll be there regardless.

 

 

I know we all would have loved to add Miggy's bat to our lineup, but how realistic was it? The thing that makes it sting so much was where he was traded. Would we be making a fuss or feeling down on ourselves if Cabrera had be shipped out west to Anaheim? If you remember, the Angels were widely rumored as his destination prior to the Tigers blockbuster. People need to get off KW's back about the Cabrera thing because we never had a legit chance to begin with. We didn't have the system to compete with the Angels or Tigers, which proved pretty evident.

 

If the Sox can sign Rowand to a three-year pact, go ahead and do it!

Edited December 11, 2007 by BBaum21

[Steve9347]

Do you really think we just burned one of our best position prospects only to give up on a guy after 2 months. Why does Danny have bad news written all over him. How many players would of been dumped over that model before they had a chance. We are not competing this year, so lets see what the kid can do before we start replacing people.

Damn, I forgot that questioning the great Richar is a nono on this board.

 

OK, think of it this way. Figgins, Rowand, Richar. Figgins can play anywhere. Richar can still get his at bats while Figgins hits in LF for the start of the year while Quentin works his way back to health, then if Richar's a bust, you have another 2B option. If he's not a bust, you have great flexibility within the lineup.

[southsideirish71]

Damn, I forgot that questioning the great Richar is a nono on this board.

 

OK, think of it this way. Figgins, Rowand, Richar. Figgins can play anywhere. Richar can still get his at bats while Figgins hits in LF for the start of the year while Quentin works his way back to health, then if Richar's a bust, you have another 2B option. If he's not a bust, you have great flexibility within the lineup.

 

It has nothing to do with the great Richar. Richar could be a serviceable 2nd baseman for low cost. I think a 90 loss team that has an aging core with a 100 million dollar payroll might want to inject some youth into the lineup. We will most likely pick up Rowand. So our low cost options are 3rd, 2nd and LF to give the lineup some financial restraint.

 

Richar could be good and at the same time he could suck big time and be a bust. I would like to see what happens though. Its not like the team is just on the verge of fighting for a world series playoff run. We can see what he can offer, and if he offers nothing jettison him to the 5th level of hell for all I care.

 

I like Figgins, I just think that there is little chance he gets moved from the Angels.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

It has nothing to do with the great Richar. Richar could be a serviceable 2nd baseman for low cost. I think a 90 loss team that has an aging core with a 100 million dollar payroll might want to inject some youth into the lineup. We will most likely pick up Rowand. So our low cost options are 3rd, 2nd and LF to give the lineup some financial restraint.

 

Richar could be good and at the same time he could suck big time and be a bust. I would like to see what happens though. Its not like the team is just on the verge of fighting for a world series playoff run. We can see what he can offer, and if he offers nothing jettison him to the 5th level of hell for all I care.

 

I like Figgins, I just think that there is little chance he gets moved from the Angels.

 

^^this

 

I'm not really not sure the point of adding a 2Bman at this point; there are none on the market that are going to make the Sox are clearly superior team to most than what Danny Richar might be able to produce at the big league level, and any of them will cost quite a few million along with a few prospects on top of it. Add to it that I really, really doubt Anaheim does Crede and Sisco (or Masset or Aardsma) for Figgins too; Figgins hit .330 last year with an .825 OPS, yet his value is that of a 3Bman with a f***ed up back and a crappy AAAA reliever? I don't think so. I'd be very surprised if they didn't ask for something like Egbert and Broadway on top of just Crede.

[Steve9347]

I'd be very surprised if they didn't ask for something like Egbert and Broadway on top of just Crede.

deal. in a heartbeat deal.

[witesoxfan]

deal. in a heartbeat deal.

 

K, that's a bullpen arm and a 200 inning starter for 2009 gone for a 2Bman whose entire offensive game depends upon his average. If he hits .270, he's a bad player.

 

That's a really dumb trade.

[Balta1701]

K, that's a bullpen arm and a 200 inning starter for 2009 gone for a 2Bman whose entire offensive game depends upon his average. If he hits .270, he's a bad player.

I could, and have been saying the exact same thing about a guy that this page seems to overwhelmingly want to give 4/$55 to.

[southsideirish71]

K, that's a bullpen arm and a 200 inning starter for 2009 gone for a 2Bman whose entire offensive game depends upon his average. If he hits .270, he's a bad player.

 

That's a really dumb trade.

 

Or how about the lessons we learned from this offseason. Even if both of those guys are not on the team in 09, if they have a good season in the minors come up for a cup of coffee and look good, maybe they can be used as trading chits for a major league ready player. Our minor leagues have 2 purposes, one is to inject the team with low cost talent that can help augment the higher priced talent. Secondly, some players can be used to obtain another player from another system.

 

We should be doing everything in our power to stockpile good minor leaguers. Our minor league development needs to prepare them for the majors or at least make some of them appealing for other teams.

 

 

[Rowand44]

I really don't understand why people wouldn't want Richar to be our everyday 2b. We actually have 3 guys that should be starting at a cheap cost and have a bunch of upside, lets not F this up please.

[witesoxfan]

I could, and have been saying the exact same thing about a guy that this page seems to overwhelmingly want to give 4/$55 to.

 

This is true too; Aaron Rowand does atleast provide a cog in CF for a few years where there is none. Atleast at 2B, I believe the Sox have a player who can be good in the future, but I just don't see that in CF with Owens or Sweeney or Anderson or whoever.

[Balta1701]

We should be doing everything in our power to stockpile good minor leaguers. Our minor league development needs to prepare them for the majors or at least make some of them appealing for other teams.

At some level, especially with some of these higher risk guys we've picked up, the way to do that is to make sure they get playing time, either in AAA or in the big leagues. Guys like Floyd, Owens, Quentin, Gio, Anderson, guys who people have some sort of concern with either due to injuries or lagging perfomance...the way to make them appealing for other teams is to play them. Right now, people wouldn't give up much for Floyd, but if he had a good first half, bam. Right now people look at Owens as a scrub, but if by some chance he hit .300 for a half season and stole 35 bases, suddenly he's in the good Juan Pierre territory. Right now Anderson is a scrub we want to dump, but a half year of solid hitting by him and suddenly his value could go back up. It's not going to happen to all of them, but if the goal is to rebuild, then playing these guys and not wasting ridiculous sums of money on guys like Rowand is the way to do that rebuilding the quickest.

[Steve9347]

I could, and have been saying the exact same thing about a guy that this page seems to overwhelmingly want to give 4/$55 to.

I think the only thing that was brought up was a 3/37.5 deal in hopes that his demands have dropped due to less interest. If I'm wrong, feel free to quote the post that said otherwise.

 

As for Egbert throwing 200 innings in 2009, I'll believe it when I see it. I do love how you represent this as fact, Wite.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Steve9347

[southsideirish71]

At some level, especially with some of these higher risk guys we've picked up, the way to do that is to make sure they get playing time, either in AAA or in the big leagues. Guys like Floyd, Owens, Quentin, Gio, Anderson, guys who people have some sort of concern with either due to injuries or lagging perfomance...the way to make them appealing for other teams is to play them. Right now, people wouldn't give up much for Floyd, but if he had a good first half, bam. Right now people look at Owens as a scrub, but if by some chance he hit .300 for a half season and stole 35 bases, suddenly he's in the good Juan Pierre territory. Right now Anderson is a scrub we want to dump, but a half year of solid hitting by him and suddenly his value could go back up. It's not going to happen to all of them, but if the goal is to rebuild, then playing these guys and not wasting ridiculous sums of money on guys like Rowand is the way to do that rebuilding the quickest.

 

Anderson would of started last year in CF if it was up to me. There was no reason to purchase Mr. Glass and stick him in CF. Outside of the grindyness of his stubble and the fact that he could punt, this cost us a lot more than people think.

 

I am in the let the kids play and see what we have. The end of last season having Pods and Grinderstad taking ABs away from younger players was dumb. I know the fight for 4th place was important, but come on.

Edited December 11, 2007 by southsideirish71

[Steve9347]

I know the fight for 4th place was important, but come on.

BUT WE WON THE FIGHT!

[witesoxfan]

As for Egbert throwing 200 innings in 2009, I'll believe it when I see it. I do love how you represent this as fact, Wite.

 

It's better conjecture than thinking any amount of moves at this point will make the team a contender.

 

I'd rather just hang on to all youth and save it for the future, because the team in 2008 is going nowhere without a slight alignment of the planets.

Edited December 11, 2007 by witesoxfan

[Chombi]

I could, and have been saying the exact same thing about a guy that this page seems to overwhelmingly want to give 4/$55 to.

 

 

Figgins isn't our answer and will cost more then just an injured 3rd and a rp in my mind. The comment you responded to Balta says it all about Figgins and Rowand. Both of whom will suffer big declines in numbers next season, more on Rowands end then I think Figgins. And the part about dealing their 1-2 guys here is somewhat true but Kendrick can hit 2 IMO so I don't think they're very worried if they fill their other holes. A healthy Mathews can hit leadoff if they get desperate enough.

 

Richar is very beloved on this board and they have even convinced me to let him ride for a year or two. I thought the deal was made for a good young backup with potential to be serviceable waaaay down the road. Hey, who knows though. I liked what I saw from time to time with him.

 

No Figgins please. No Rowand please (glad to hear the Giants might make him a 5 year offer). There was something else I wanted to address but forgot. I'll get it in another post.

[DBAHO]

If the Giants don't do the Rios for Linecum deal, then I think they'll end up with Rowand.

 

If they make the deal, then I think Rowand is headed back our way (with Philly still as a sleeper).

 

And yes we need to keep Richar. We didn't give up a good prospect in Cunningham, and let Iguchi go for basically nothing to let Richar develop form the bench.

 

He's young (in an aging lineup), has the potential to improve, and we need the payroll flexibility.

[RockRaines]

It's better conjecture than thinking any amount of moves at this point will make the team a contender.

 

I'd rather just hang on to all youth and save it for the future, because the team in 2008 is going nowhere without a slight alignment of the planets.

Exactly. There is no reason for us to mortgage all our players quite yet. The only way I trade them is if there is another young mlb ready player coming back in return (Quentin). I see these contracts being given out this offseason and I would really like to keep our noses out of it. There is talk of Fuk U Dome getting 5/65 and up, and it makes me want to puke.

[Wanne]

There is talk of Fuk U Dome getting 5/65 and up, and it makes me want to puke.

 

NO THANKS!!! I hope Kenny stays far away from this guy.

[DBAHO]

The only way you can justify paying Fukudome that kind of salary, is if he's going to bring in a lot of revenue from new Asian fans turning up to the ballpark, and the Sox selling more advertising space to Japanese companies..

 

I think the Cubs have said they'll do the latter if he signs with them.

[greg775]

The reaction on this board was a joke... I say at least KW tried, he put everything the Sox could offer out there, and was just beaten by a better offer.

 

Why was the reaction on here a joke?

Detroit has one of the most fearsome lineups on paper in a long time.

You say we aren't going to win next year anyway?

Uh ... it was KW's job to tinker and make sure we do win.

Any team with Thome, Konerko, Dye, Mark B and Vasquez with Bob Jenks has a

nucleus.

These are veteran players. Why shouldn't we expect our GM to do his job??

The reaction on here was fine.

[Steve9347]

Why was the reaction on here a joke?

Detroit has one of the most fearsome lineups on paper in a long time.

You say we aren't going to win next year anyway?

Uh ... it was KW's job to tinker and make sure we do win.

Any team with Thome, Konerko, Dye, Mark B and Vasquez with Bob Jenks has a

nucleus.

These are veteran players. Why shouldn't we expect our GM to do his job??

The reaction on here was fine.

He did do his job. He made his best offer. Kenny's done plenty to earn a bad rep around here lately, but that trade was not it... it's like that trade single-handedly meant the White Sox were going to suck in 2008. Guess what, it was happening with or without Cabrera.