Fukudome to the Cubs

[CanOfCorn]

Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve.

 

Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here.

 

Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis.

 

Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside.

 

What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round.

 

Well said. What should be interesting is to revisit these trades/signings in a couple of years and see what they have brought the teams. If the Tigers or Angels don't win a World Series and now have aging, expensive players. And their fans might be clamoring for THEIR GM's jobs.

 

At this point, try to trade Uribe and Crede for whatever you can get for them and go into the year with what we got.

[lostfan]

Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them.

I'm not holding anybody's work ethic against anybody. In fact TBH I could care less about the work ethic of Kenny Williams, Jerry Angelo, or John Paxson. I only care about the end result and right now, I can't be too optimistic, because I (and many others) haven't seen too much of anything. I used to think KW was a genius, now, not so much.

 

There is a pretty lengthy thread about that so I'm not going to comment too much further.

Edited December 12, 2007 by lostfan

[southsider2k5]

I'm not holding anybody's work ethic against anybody. In fact TBH I could care less about the work ethic of Kenny Williams, Jerry Angelo, or John Paxson. I only care about the end result and right now, I can't be too optimistic, because I (and many others) haven't seen too much of anything. I used to think KW was a genius, now, not so much.

 

There is a pretty lengthy thread about that so I'm not going to comment too much further.

 

The end result was a 2005 World Series championship.

[lostfan]

The end result was a 2005 World Series championship.

Yeah, and that was absolutely great. Unfortunately I just looked at my calendar and it's 2007, and I'm thinking we have a .500 team right now. I don't know about you but I'd kind of like to experience 2005 again someday.

[CanOfCorn]

Yeah, and that was absolutely great. Unfortunately I just looked at my calendar and it's 2007, and I'm thinking we have a .500 team right now. I don't know about you but I'd kind of like to experience 2005 again someday.

 

As would most people on this board. But, the game isn't played on paper. And this team hasn't played one game in 2008. Shoot, we're not even IN 2008.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, and that was absolutely great. Unfortunately I just looked at my calendar and it's 2007, and I'm thinking we have a .500 team right now. I don't know about you but I'd kind of like to experience 2005 again someday.

 

And the only way that is going to happen is by being aggressive. People conviently forget their White Sox history when they talk about melting things down. People STILL talk about the strike year and the White Flag trade. There were people who literally didn't go to games for 10+ years because of those incidents. If we punt on two to three years worth of time, we might as well pack up the franchise and move it to Las Vegas, because by the time we are good again, there won't be any payroll to pay the players, because there won't be anyone at the ballpark to care about the team on the field. I for one have zero interest in going back to the years where our best players walk away because we average 20K fans a night. Our only chance at winning again soon is to try to roll the dice, and Williams understands this, and is trying to do something.

[lostfan]

As would most people on this board. But, the game isn't played on paper. And this team hasn't played one game in 2008. Shoot, we're not even IN 2008.

I know, and I didn't expect the disaster that was 2007 to be rectified in one year. And Crede and Uribe still have to be traded. But there's just still so much to be done to make this team a legit WS contender and it doesn't seem like it's happening fast enough... juggernaut Tigers in the division and Liriano's return notwithstanding.

 

I'm really keeping my fingers crossed on all of the young players playing to their full potential at once because that's probably the best shot this team has right now.

Edited December 12, 2007 by lostfan

[lostfan]

People conviently forget their White Sox history when they talk about melting things down. People STILL talk about the strike year and the White Flag trade. There were people who literally didn't go to games for 10+ years because of those incidents.

Yeah I was one of those people, actually it was the strike, I only have blurry memories of the White Flag trade. I didn't start watching baseball again until like 1999, I finally caved in because I was tired of watching the Bears lose

[joeynach]

I am afraid you may be right and If that happens the off season is a total disaster.

 

Well Bruce Levine reported this morning the sox were in on fukudome and bid the same amount as the cubs. He said he chose the cubs becuase he wanted to stay in RF, not displace Dye, and was intrigued by the idea of being the cubs first japanese player.

[ptatc]

Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve.

 

Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here.

 

Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis.

 

Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside.

 

What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round.

 

i wholehearted agree. I don't think some of the people here remember the schuler era or like me have chosen to wipe it out of my mind.

 

[Dick Allen]

Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve.

 

Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here.

 

Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis.

 

Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside.

 

What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round.

KW has never signed a big time full priced free agent from another team. If the standard is Schueler, we obviously don't expect much. KW's problem has never been effort, but effort means little at this stage, results matter. KW needs to have a plan that actually has a good chance of occurring. Hunter's praise, while nice, matters little. He praised just about everyone and took the Angels money. Fukudome was going to the Cubs. Nice effort, but maybe that's what they want you to think. He promised a dynamic offense. The offseason isn't over yet. If he doesn't deliver, something needs to be done.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Dick Allen

[Hatchetman]

Schuler just did what he was told.

[Dick Allen]

Its now being reported the Sox actually bid higher than the Cubs for Fukudome.

[Chisoxfn]

Its now being reported the Sox actually bid higher than the Cubs for Fukudome.

Wow...it really sucks that they lost out on him if that is the case.

[santo=dorf]

Its now being reported the Sox actually bid higher than the Cubs for Fukudome.

Where did you hear that?

[hawksfan61]

Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve.

 

Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here.

 

Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis.

 

Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside.

 

What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round.

 

Perfect summary of why I will never have the total hatred for KW like a lot of people seem to have nowadays. Right or wrong, Kenny has made this an organization that every year tries to improve itself, which is not something I could say ever really happened under Schuler. Some of Kenny's moves end up looking great (Thome, Freddy Garcia, trading Lee), and some of them look like absolute garbage (Koch, Todd Ritchie), but every year the guy is trying to make the team better. This offseason has been a disappointment so far, but I guarantee if this was the old way of doing things we would have never been going after guys like Cabrera or Hunter.

 

Some people's heads would have absolutely exploded following the Sox during Schuler's time in charge. Never was in any discussions to improve real good teams that he had in the early 90's at the deadline, never made a move to add a big pitcher or another that maybe could have put us over the top, Schu was content to sit on his magic prospects, particularly pitchers, that never ended up contributing anything to the major league club.

 

Kenny is at least out there trying to improve the team. People may not agree with the moves he makes or the things that come out of his mouth sometimes, but I truly believe Kenny wants to make this team better and a championship contender every year, and that is something that I never felt as a fan during Schuler's time here. Some may call that a low standard, and it probably is, but I will just say the offseason isn't over, and baseball can sometimes be a very funny game.

 

[Dick Allen]

Where did you hear that?

Suntimes.com. According to his agent.

[CWSGuy406]

Owens put up a .340 OBP in his 2nd callup last season, and his walk rate improved markedly after his first month. If he could hit .280 or so, a .350+ OBP is within reach. He isn't Jim Thome when it comes to taking walks, but the numbers don't like; he is roughly as patient out of the leadoff spot as quite a few major league speed type leadoff hitters, including guys like Lofton, Podsednik, etc.

 

Kenny Lofton now or Kenny Lofton in his prime?

 

Either way you're wrong. Lofton -- at the age of 40 -- was still a league average hitter, with his ~.370 OBP and .415 slugging. I guarantee Jerry Owens will NEVER have a season where he's a league average hitter or better in a significant amount of at-bats.

[hitlesswonder]

Kenny Lofton now or Kenny Lofton in his prime?

 

Either way you're wrong. Lofton -- at the age of 40 -- was still a league average hitter, with his ~.370 OBP and .415 slugging. I guarantee Jerry Owens will NEVER have a season where he's a league average hitter or better in a significant amount of at-bats.

 

I think people here are really underestimating how bad of a hitter Jerry Owens is. If a guy posts a .640 OPS he's costing you runs whether he is fast or not. And slugging may not matter as much for someone hitting #1, but it does matter when the hitter can barely hit a line drive.

[NorthSideSox72]

I guarantee Jerry Owens will NEVER have a season where he's a league average hitter or better in a significant amount of at-bats.

 

Now that's funny. You GUARANTEE that a rookie, who hit .278 in his 2nd half callup and .267 on the year, will NEVER hit for a .268 average?

 

Saying you don't think he'll do better than that I can understand. Guaranteeing he will never add .001 to his average during his entire career is just hilarious.

 

[CWSGuy406]

Now that's funny. You GUARANTEE that a rookie, who hit .278 in his 2nd half callup and .267 on the year, will NEVER hit for a .268 average?

 

Saying you don't think he'll do better than that I can understand. Guaranteeing he will never add .001 to his average during his entire career is just hilarious.

 

Hey Northside -- can you be a pal and try actually reading what I wrote? Pretty please? I said this: "I guarantee Jerry Owens will NEVER have a season where he's a league average hitter or better in a significant amount of at-bats. "

 

I'm sorry that you still believe when I say "league average hitter", you think that means batting average.

Edited December 13, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[NorthSideSox72]

Hey Northside -- can you be a pal and try actually reading what I wrote? Pretty please? I said this: "I guarantee Jerry Owens will NEVER have a season where he's a league average hitter or better in a significant amount of at-bats. "

 

I'm sorry that you still believe when I say "league average hitter", you think that means batting average.

I read, and took from it the most apparent meaning. league average, I figured, meant league AVERAGE. How silly of me.

 

[CWSGuy406]

I read, and took from it the most apparent meaning. league average, I figured, meant league AVERAGE. How silly of me.

 

You thought I meant average from "league average hitter"? That wouldn't make any sense at all in the context of how I wrote it -- none at all. If I wanted to write league average batting average, I would've wrote league average batting average.

 

So yes, that was extremely silly of you.

[NorthSideSox72]

You thought I meant average from "league average hitter"? That wouldn't make any sense at all in the context of how I wrote it -- none at all. If I wanted to write league average batting average, I would've wrote league average batting average.

 

So yes, that was extremely silly of you.

 

Dude, you're hilarious... makes no sense at all - that average meant average... I truly must be from another planet.

 

[CWSGuy406]

Dude, you're hilarious... makes no sense at all - that average meant average... I truly must be from another planet.

 

I agree, you aren't making a whole lot of sense. I use the term "league average hitter" all the time and have never ever had someone think that I was talking about batting average -- you just can't take "batting average" from it. It's not that difficult. So if I were to say a guy is an "average hitter", that means I'm talking about batting average? Of course not -- the definition of "average" is "a quantity, rating, or the like that represents or approximates an arithmetic mean." If I wanted to talk about batting average, I would've clarified it with the word "batting" in front of it.

 

Are you really so proud to admit that you just completely screwed up in reading what I wrote? That difficult, ehh? Because like I said -- nobody has EVER taken "league average hitter" to mean I'm talking about batting average. Congrats for being the first, I guess.

 

You're just being ignorant at this point as well, because obviously batting average is the first statistic I think about when talking about hitters (read: that's sarcasm, in case I'm not clear enough. S-A-R-C-A-S-M). I guess I forgot that there's actually still people who think a lot about that stat.

Edited December 14, 2007 by CWSGuy406