Fukudome to the Cubs

[RockRaines]

Sooooo. Kw offers the exact same amount of money as the cubs, wants to put him in cf like all of you do, and fukudome decides he'd rather play for the cubs because he wants to be in rf, and be the first japanese player for the franchise, and your reaction is of disgust and anger towards kw? At least be a little rational in your thoughts. There appears to be either a lot of sexual frustration going on, or a lot of misinformed angry little kids lashing out.

[iamshack]

I never said KW should be fired for not getting Fuku (it's the rest of the offseason and last year and a half which is troublnig). I never thought he'd get him, and it appears that there wouldn't have been a match even if we did offer the most money. I think some of the facts that Levine states might not be accurate, that's all I'm saying.

 

You promised to tell us after he signed what you were told about Fukudome.

 

So let's have at it...

[fathom]

You promised to tell us after he signed what you were told about Fukudome.

 

So let's have at it...

 

I said it right away in this thread. Go back and look at the first few posts after he announced.

[Dick Allen]

Sooooo. Kw offers the exact same amount of money as the cubs, wants to put him in cf like all of you do, and fukudome decides he'd rather play for the cubs because he wants to be in rf, and be the first japanese player for the franchise, and your reaction is of disgust and anger towards kw? At least be a little rational in your thoughts. There appears to be either a lot of sexual frustration going on, or a lot of misinformed angry little kids lashing out.

What would be troubling is if he's offering the same amount as other teams, that the targets are choosing the other teams. Fuk to the Cubs has been a foregone conclusion for a while.

[iamshack]

I said it right away in this thread. Go back and look at the first few posts after he announced.

 

Ahh, thanks. I just bought a ps3 to give me something to take my mind of the White Sox, so I didn't hear about the signing until this morning.

[sircaffey]

At this point, I would much rather go into the season with this failed attempt at competing. I do not want a rebuilding process to start now for one reason, and one reason only. KW is still here. Let the season play out, and then after we lose another 90 games KW will be fired. If KW is heading a rebuilding process we will not be rebuilt before 2015.

Edited December 12, 2007 by sircaffey

[Dick Allen]

At this point, I would much rather go into the season with this failed attempt at competing. I do not want a rebuilding process to start now for one reason, and one reason only. KW is still here. Let the season play out, and then after we lose another 90 games KW will be fired. If KW is heading a rebuilding process we will not be rebuilt before 2015.

I don't see anyway JR doesn't give KW a shot at rebuilding. The only way he leaves is if he quits, at least for a few years IMO.

[hitlesswonder]

At this point, I would much rather go into the season with this failed attempt at competing. I do not want a rebuilding process to start now for one reason, and one reason only. KW is still here. Let the season play out, and then after we lose another 90 games KW will be fired. If KW is heading a rebuilding process we will not be rebuilt before 2015.

Williams won't be fired. Look up "Jerry Krause" for details....

[ptatc]

Williams won't be fired. Look up "Jerry Krause" for details....

 

that's right.

 

As long as your loyal, have a plan and are successful, you will be around. If KW has multiple unsuccessful years ala JK then he will be gone, not after only a few bad seasons. The Sox had back to back 90 win seasons before last year. Now we need to see how the next 2-3 go before KW is in danger of losing his job.

 

[Dick Allen]

Levine just stated that the Rangers made the best offer at over $50 million, while the Sox and Cubs both came in at 4/$48 million. Apparently, Fukudome wanted to play RF. Out of respect for Jermaine Dye, he did not want to cause Jermaine to play a different position on account of him. Basically, it sounds as if he did not want to play CF for us. Another factor was that he wanted to be the first Japanese player to play for the Cubs. Thus, he requested uniform #1.

I think the real reason Fukudome requested #1 is because that is the number he wore in Japan.

[iamshack]

I think the real reason Fukudome requested #1 is because that is the number he wore in Japan.

 

Fair enough...I was just rehashing what the brilliant BRUCE! Levine said...

[lostfan]

So... what FA is KW going to whiff on next?

 

I hate to sound like a doom-and-gloom naysayer but unless Jerry Owens all of a sudden turns into a .320 hitter with 50 stolen bases... we're a mess.

[NorthSideSox72]

So... what FA is KW going to whiff on next?

 

I hate to sound like a doom-and-gloom naysayer but unless Jerry Owens all of a sudden turns into a .320 hitter with 50 stolen bases... we're a mess.

Rowand is next. And he'll probably make contact.

 

And if Owens did start, one thing you could rely on is he probably would steal 50 bases.

 

[iamshack]

Barring a few major trades, is it even worth signing Rowand? Sure, you can trade for BRob, sign Rowand, perhaps make a run at a starting pitcher- a combination of moves such as those could make you competitve. But signing Rowand and making a few minor changes doesn't seem to accomplish anything other than spending another $13 million annually on a 3rd or 4th place team.

 

I certainly hope Kenny is pondering this.

 

Sure would be crazy if suddenly he had a firesale and acquired a ton of young players...

[Balta1701]

Barring a few major trades, is it even worth signing Rowand? Sure, you can trade for BRob, sign Rowand, perhaps make a run at a starting pitcher- a combination of moves such as those could make you competitve. But signing Rowand and making a few minor changes doesn't seem to accomplish anything other than spending another $13 million annually on a 3rd or 4th place team.

 

I certainly hope Kenny is pondering this.

 

Sure would be crazy if suddenly he had a firesale and acquired a ton of young players...

No.

 

I still contend that Aaron Rowand will not be worth $13 million a year to any team that signs him. I think he had a career year last year in a contract year, and I don't think that if Uribe put up a .900 OPS this year, he'd be worth $13 mil a year either.

[Dick Allen]

Fair enough...I was just rehashing what the brilliant BRUCE! Levine said...

I know. Bruce likes to make things a little dramatic.

[lostfan]

Rowand is next. And he'll probably make contact.

 

And if Owens did start, one thing you could rely on is he probably would steal 50 bases.

Actually I'm a big Jerry Owens fan and I like what he brings to the lineup, I (like most) just don't feel like he's a reliable everyday MLB leadoff hitter, at least yet. And I don't want to pin all my hopes on him hitting his ceiling as a player. But you're probably right, at the pace he was going last year, he could EASILY have stolen 50 bases with a full season's ABs. If he was a better hitter and got on base at around a .370 clip, he could probably steal 70.

 

But if this team did sign Rowand, who would lead off? Owens is really the only one... Cabrera is the next best thing but he really isn't a leadoff guy. We'd still be in bad shape.

[iamshack]

But if this team did sign Rowand, who would lead off? Owens is really the only one... Cabrera is the next best thing but he really isn't a leadoff guy. We'd still be in bad shape.

 

Which is why any signing of Rowand should probably accompany a trade bringing in a leadoff man....

[NorthSideSox72]

Actually I'm a big Jerry Owens fan and I like what he brings to the lineup, I (like most) just don't feel like he's a reliable everyday MLB leadoff hitter, at least yet. And I don't want to pin all my hopes on him hitting his ceiling as a player. But you're probably right, at the pace he was going last year, he could EASILY have stolen 50 bases with a full season's ABs. If he was a better hitter and got on base at around a .370 clip, he could probably steal 70.

 

But if this team did sign Rowand, who would lead off? Owens is really the only one... Cabrera is the next best thing but he really isn't a leadoff guy. We'd still be in bad shape.

Having a prototypical leadoff hitter is nice, but I am more concerned with just improving the lineup overall. Rowand is a pretty big improvement over Owens, IMO. Cabrera can lead off.

 

[hitlesswonder]

But if this team did sign Rowand, who would lead off? Owens is really the only one... Cabrera is the next best thing but he really isn't a leadoff guy. We'd still be in bad shape.

 

That's right -- I don't see how CF could be anyone but Owens/Crisp/Pierre. Otherwise the Sox would have no leadoff hitter! That's why the Sox need to put a .650 OPS player into CF rather than a .790 OPS player

 

[lostfan]

That's right -- I don't see how CF could be anyone but Owens/Crisp/Pierre. Otherwise the Sox would have no leadoff hitter! That's why the Sox need to put a .650 OPS player into CF rather than a .790 OPS player

I think OPS (and SLG% by extension) is an overrated stat for leadoff hitters especially if you have enough power elsewhere. It's not completely unimportant because doubles really matter, and because obviously batting yourself in is a lot more reliable than relying on the heart of the order to do it, but not everybody can have a Granderson or Soriano there. OBP and speed is what matters most. Owens def. has speed but not so much OBP, at least he has yet to show it.

 

My main beef with having Owens in CF is his arm, he throws like a girl. And his defense is about average, he has great range that is negated by his bad reads. So, as an overall player, Rowand is an upgrade... but unless Fields is in the everyday lineup, Cabrera is the leadoff hitter, and I'm not sure I like that. I agree with the poster above that said a Rowand signing would have to have an accompanying trade.

[hitlesswonder]

I think OPS (and SLG% by extension) is an overrated stat for leadoff hitters especially if you have enough power elsewhere. It's not completely unimportant because doubles really matter, and because obviously batting yourself in is a lot more reliable than relying on the heart of the order to do it, but not everybody can have a Granderson or Soriano there. OBP and speed is what matters most. Owens def. has speed but not so much OBP, at least he has yet to show it.

OBP is far more important than speed and Owens doesn't have the former.

 

But I am sure the Sox lineup would score more runs with a .790 OPS player in it than a .640ish OPS player in it.

[lostfan]

But I am sure the Sox lineup would score more runs with a .790 OPS player in it than a .640ish OPS player in it.

I didn't say anything to imply it wouldn't. But you're not going to put said .790 OPS player at the top of the lineup if he's not that fast and if his OPS is high because he hits home runs... no, you're going to bat him like 6th. If it was .790 because he hits a lot of doubles/triples and draws a ton of walks, then by all means, but I don't see anybody like that. You need a reliable presence at the top to fill that role or you're gonna fall flat when the bats cool off.

Edited December 12, 2007 by lostfan

[Balta1701]

OBP is far more important than speed and Owens doesn't have the former.

Owens put up a .340 OBP in his 2nd callup last season, and his walk rate improved markedly after his first month. If he could hit .280 or so, a .350+ OBP is within reach. He isn't Jim Thome when it comes to taking walks, but the numbers don't like; he is roughly as patient out of the leadoff spot as quite a few major league speed type leadoff hitters, including guys like Lofton, Podsednik, etc.

[southsider2k5]

So... what FA is KW going to whiff on next?

 

I hate to sound like a doom-and-gloom naysayer but unless Jerry Owens all of a sudden turns into a .320 hitter with 50 stolen bases... we're a mess.

 

Serious question here... because so many people seem to have this opinion, would you all rather return to the Ron Schuler years where we'd maybe make one decent trade a winter, but you could pretty much be assured that we wouldn't be after any major players? I know the knock on Kenny is all of the sudden is that he is "missing" on all of the players, but the fact that he is chasing them, even when the odds are against him in all of these cases just tells me he is willing to try to do whatever it takes to try to improve.

 

Think about it. Torii Hunter was supposedly going to get blown away from this huge offer from Texas. You all heard the impression Kenny made on Hunter, and how close he was to coming here.

 

Miguel Cabrera was supposedly going to the Angels. In steps Kenny, and he was leading the race, until Florida changed the terms and insisted we take on Dontrelle Willis.

 

Fukudome was supposedly only going to consider the Cubs, yet Kenny goes out and matches the Cubs offer, only to fail because the guy wanted to pad his own ego with the #1 and having to play RF, plus being the #1 Japanese player on the northside.

 

What do these all have in common? Kenny fought for all three of the guys dispite the odds. A guy like Ron Schuler would have never been heard from on any of these stages. He would have been happy to plug in some rookies, and some type b/c free agents, and move on having no expecations of anything for the next season. Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them. Its almost like people would be happier if we weren't ever mentioned at all in connection with players. Give me the guy going for the gold ring, instead of the guy who is content to see how long he can go around on the merri-go-round.