Mitchell Report Thread

[WCSox]

Eh, he was still there and had some huge hits, he was a big part of that team. Like Balta said, I wish nobody from that team was mentioned but Everett really isn't that surprising when you think about it.

 

Everett was a DH with a horrible OBP. He was basically a switch-hitting Uribe who didn't make any defensive contributions. Despite his 23 homers, was probably the least important person in the lineup. Rowand or Pods being named in the Mitchell Report would've been much more damaging, IMO.

 

Happy there is no ARod(not that I think he roids but still, didn't want him to be on there), knew 100 percent that Frank wasn't on there so that didn't scare me at all and at least for the most part there aren't impact players from the Sox on there.

 

Agreed about Frank. Albert Belle's name wasn't that surprising, especially since it's almost universally-known that he corked his bats.

 

[southsideirish71]

Everett was a DH with a horrible OBP. He was basically a switch-hitting Uribe who didn't make any defensive contributions. Despite his 23 homers, was probably the least important person in the lineup. Rowand or Pods being named in the Mitchell Report would've been much more damaging, IMO.

Agreed about Frank. Albert Belle's name wasn't that surprising, especially since it's almost universally-known that he corked his bats.

 

Everett was also demoted from the 3 hole late in the season because he sucked so bad with the stick.

 

Dye hit there at the very end of September. Roids didnt help Dino boy too well at the end.

 

 

 

[Kalapse]

According to SI Tejada, Clemens and Pettitte will all be named along with Brian Roberts, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley and Chuck Knoblauch.

[iamshack]

If any owner was smart enough after 2002-2003 to start writing a clause into a contract that would allow termination for steroid use, perhaps. But think about Giambi...the Yankees had him with his body falling apart and they still never made a move to get out of that contract. If the Yankees didn't move on that, then I'm pretty sure there's a legal reason why they didn't.

 

Well, you guys are missing the boat here. To claim that these owners didn't know exactly what was going on with the vast majority of these players is nonsense. Many of these owners signed players knowing fully well that the player was using steroids, which led to their improvement in performance. For the owners to then go back and try to void a contract would be absolute horsesh*t. It can be argued that it's the owners who benefitted the most from the widespread steroid use by players.

 

Many of these contracts contain clauses which can void the contract if the player, for instance, engages in some sort of dangerous off-field activity (riding motorcycles) without the team's consent. I'm sure the Yankees attempted to form an argument that steroid use by Giambi equated to such, but ultimately they decided not to pursue such an argument. However, this also happened to coincide with Jason's productive return to the field.

[Balta1701]

According to SI Tejada, Clemens and Pettitte will all be named along with Brian Roberts, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley and Chuck Knoblauch.

And David Justice. Man, I always liked him. F***er.

[daa84]

everett did move willie over to third though in game 4....not that it mattered...he woulda scored anyways

Edited December 13, 2007 by daa84

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, you guys are missing the boat here. To claim that these owners didn't know exactly what was going on with the vast majority of these players is nonsense. Many of these owners signed players knowing fully well that the player was using steroids, which led to their improvement in performance. For the owners to then go back and try to void a contract would be absolute horsesh*t. It can be argued that it's the owners who benefitted the most from the widespread steroid use by players.

 

Many of these contracts contain clauses which can void the contract if the player, for instance, engages in some sort of dangerous off-field activity (riding motorcycles) without the team's consent. I'm sure the Yankees attempted to form an argument that steroid use by Giambi equated to such, but ultimately they decided not to pursue such an argument. However, this also happened to coincide with Jason's productive return to the field.

I think you are way off on this. Most owners don't know that much detail of the day to day lives of their players, I'd bet. They probably all had the GENERAL idea that they were out there and prevalent - but I doubt they had much info about specific players.

 

[Steve9347]

Interesting that the SI article doesn't say anything about Prince Albert.

[daa84]

I think you are way off on this. Most owners don't know that much detail of the day to day lives of their players, I'd bet. They probably all had the GENERAL idea that they were out there and prevalent - but I doubt they had much info about specific players.

you dont hand out millions of dollars without finding out alot about players...including what their training is like...lets face it...everyone knew...it was likely one of those "do i really know" type things....the owners may have never actually seen the players taking roids, but they knew....its like...ive never seen britney spears having sex...but i know shes a slut

[SpringfieldFan]

Well, if the list is accurate: no Thomas, Thome, Konerko, Dye, Crede, Ventura, Ordonez, Jenks, Buehrle, McDowell...

 

Great day to be a Sox fan!

[NorthSideSox72]

you dont hand out millions of dollars without finding out alot about players...including what their training is like...lets face it...everyone knew...it was likely one of those "do i really know" type things....the owners may have never actually seen the players taking roids, but they knew....its like...ive never seen britney spears having sex...but i know shes a slut

I think you are confusing owners with GM's and managers. I'd bet the GM/manager types knew plenty. A lot of owners though, I'd bet, just weren't that tight with how their players behaved.

 

[iamshack]

I think you are way off on this. Most owners don't know that much detail of the day to day lives of their players, I'd bet. They probably all had the GENERAL idea that they were out there and prevalent - but I doubt they had much info about specific players.

 

So you're going to argue George Steinbrenner had no idea that Jason Giambi was a steroid user when he signed him? The Cubs brass had no idea Sammy Sosa was using them? The Cardinals no clue with McGuire, who openly displayed creatine in his locker? Many of these players had the drugs DELIVERED to THE CLUBHOUSE! You're going to say these owners had no idea?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that every owner was keeping tabs on every one of his players. But they are usually astute businessmen for a reason. They keep tabs on their investments and their fingers on everything.

[NorthSideSox72]

So you're going to argue George Steinbrenner had no idea that Jason Giambi was a steroid user when he signed him? The Cubs brass had no idea Sammy Sosa was using them? The Cardinals no clue with McGuire, who openly displayed creatine in his locker? Many of these players had the drugs DELIVERED to THE CLUBHOUSE! You're going to say these owners had no idea?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that every owner was keeping tabs on every one of his players. But they are usually astute businessmen for a reason. They keep tabs on their investments and their fingers on everything.

Note what I actually said - most owners aren't familiar with most of the day-to-day of their players. And that is true. But there are cetainly exceptions. Yes, I am sure that some teams like Texas signing Sosa knew what they were getting. But depending on your take on the words "Cubs brass", they may not have known what Sammy was doing. And if they suspected, I'd bet that the further away from the baseball field they were on the org chart, the less they wanted to know.

 

[iamshack]

I think you are confusing owners with GM's and managers. I'd bet the GM/manager types knew plenty. A lot of owners though, I'd bet, just weren't that tight with how their players behaved.

 

And you don't think the manager talks to the GM, who then talks to the owner? I understand what you're saying- that most owners don't interact personally much with their players. But their managers do. And where do you think GM's go for advice on a player they have, or wish to acquire? And where do you think the GM's then go to get permission to spend the money to acquire a player or to re-sign a player? To the owner. I think you're underestimating the amount of involvement alot of these owners have with their teams, or perhaps how much knowledge they have of their own players.

[iamshack]

Note what I actually said - most owners aren't familiar with most of the day-to-day of their players. And that is true. But there are cetainly exceptions. Yes, I am sure that some teams like Texas signing Sosa knew what they were getting. But depending on your take on the words "Cubs brass", they may not have known what Sammy was doing. And if they suspected, I'd bet that the further away from the baseball field they were on the org chart, the less they wanted to know.

 

Well, certain clubs like the Cubs and Cardinals are more difficult to discuss, because they are owned by multi-billion dollar corporations. So insert whomever takes on the role of the owner in those cases. My guess is it would be Team President. Do you believe Andy McPhail had no idea Sammy Sosa was doing roids when he suddenly began hitting 60+ home runs in successive seasons? Come on...

[NorthSideSox72]

And you don't think the manager talks to the GM, who then talks to the owner? I understand what you're saying- that most owners don't interact personally much with their players. But their managers do. And where do you think GM's go for advice on a player they have, or wish to acquire? And where do you think the GM's then go to get permission to spend the money to acquire a player or to re-sign a player? To the owner. I think you're underestimating the amount of involvement alot of these owners have with their teams, or perhaps how much knowledge they have of their own players.

I think you are overestimating the relationship. Owners dictate what money to spend, how much, and when - but I'd bet they only rarely talk to the player-related staff about specific players on a casual, high-level basis most of the time. On occasion, maybe, they might talk about some specific star player, if its relevant.

 

[iamshack]

I think you are overestimating the relationship. Owners dictate what money to spend, how much, and when - but I'd bet they only rarely talk to the player-related staff about specific players on a casual, high-level basis most of the time. On occasion, maybe, they might talk about some specific star player, if its relevant.

 

Ok, so I knew Giambi, Sosa, McGuire, and many other players were doing roids. But the owners of the teams they played for had no idea?

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok, so I knew Giambi, Sosa, McGuire, and many other players were doing roids. But the owners of the teams they played for had no idea?

For the third time... as I have posted, there are exceptions. Those are superstar players.

 

Since its obvious you are just going to go to the extremes on this, missing the general point, there isn't much purpose discussing it with you further.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok, so I knew Giambi, Sosa, McGuire, and many other players were doing roids. But the owners of the teams they played for had no idea?

Oh and by the way... you didn't KNOW they were doing them. At least not immediately. You SUSPECTED.

 

[Hatchetman]

Oh and by the way... you didn't KNOW they were doing them. At least not immediately. You SUSPECTED.

 

No, he knew. Just like I knew, and anyone with half a brain knew.

[Steve9347]

Oh and by the way... you didn't KNOW they were doing them. At least not immediately. You SUSPECTED.

That's what I was going to say. Unless IAMSHACK had some EVIDENCE back in the day, he didn't KNOW it.

[tonyho7476]

Jose Canseco is at the press conference....probably with popcorn.

[NorthSideSox72]

No, he knew. Just like I knew, and anyone with half a brain knew.

How did those trials go in Salem?

 

[Dick Allen]

Well, certain clubs like the Cubs and Cardinals are more difficult to discuss, because they are owned by multi-billion dollar corporations. So insert whomever takes on the role of the owner in those cases. My guess is it would be Team President. Do you believe Andy McPhail had no idea Sammy Sosa was doing roids when he suddenly began hitting 60+ home runs in successive seasons? Come on...

What do you think was going on with the White Sox when they signed Canseco? Clearly they has to know what he was on. Schoenweiss had stuff delivered to the clubhouse too. Are JR and KW just as guilty as everyone else?

[Balta1701]

What do you think was going on with the White Sox when they signed Canseco? Clearly they has to know what he was on. Schoenweiss had stuff delivered to the clubhouse too. Are JR and KW just as guilty as everyone else?

I think the Canseco one was clearly a mistake.

 

Schoenweis, I don't know. But we really should make sure to insert a question about that at Soxfest. An answer to that question is something we should get...what did they know about that.