Mitchell Report Thread

[retro1983hat]

Basically nothing will happen because of this.

 

Todd Hundley and Jim Parque should seriously ask for their money back.

[Controlled Chaos]

Cubs were a pharmacy.

It is pretty crazy how many played for them.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Whether Don Fehr will allow it, I don't know.

He almost has to. his nuts are against the wall.

[Balta1701]

what is taking them so long to produce a list.

No idea. You'd think the press could type one up somewhere.

[G&T]

Cubs were a pharmacy.

 

The Cubs, Red Sox, and Yankees do not look good in this in proportion to other teams. Not to mention Giants and A's.

[longshot7]

This was the list as best as I could put together. (Sorry if I missed anyone):

Marvin Benard, Barry Bonds. Bobby Estalella, Jason Giambi. Jeremy Giambi, Benito Santiago, Gary Sheffield, Randy Velarde, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Larry Bigbie, Brian Roberts, Jack Cust, Tim Laker, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Hundley, Mark Carreon, Hal Morris, Matt Franco, Rondell White, Roger Clemens, Chuck Knoblauch, Jason Grimsley, Gregg Zaun, David Justice, F.P. Santangelo, Glenallen Hill, Mo Vaughn, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Ryan Franklin, Chris Donnels, Todd Williams, Phil Hiatt, Todd Pratt, Kevin Young, Mike Lansing, Cody McKay, Kent Mercker, Adam Piatt, Miguel Tejada, Jason Christiansen, Mike Stanton, Stephen Randolph, Jerry Hairston, Jr., Paul Lo Duca, Adam Riggs, Bart Miadich, Fernando Vina, Kevin Brown, Eric Gagné, Mike Bell, Matt Herges, Gary Bennett, Jr., Jim Parque, Brendan Donnelly, Chad Allen, Jeff Williams, Howie Clark, Nook Logan, Matt Karchner, Daniel Naulty, Jay Gibbons, Rick Ankiel, David Bell, Paul Byrd, Jose Canseco, Troy Glaus, Jason Grimsley, Jose Guillen, Darren Holmes, Gary Matthews, Jr., John Rocker, Scott Schoeneweis, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams, Steve Woodard

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1548718

 

See, the problem with a list like this is the example of Matt Karchner. He's in the report as someone who willingly talked to the panel about members of the 1999 Chicago Cubs he personally saw inject - not because he himself used.

[HuskyCaucasian]

It is pretty crazy how many played for them.

not sure how many use WHILE with the cubs. But a lot sure went through them. Sox have one for sure.

[rockren]

My friend who is a Yankee fan just told me his opinion about the list:

 

"Easy thing to do is just not care about it."

 

 

Easy for him to say when almost half the list is Yankee affiliation.

[RockRaines]

not sure how many use WHILE with the cubs. But a lot sure went through them. Sox have one for sure.

In the report it was listed as several players injecting.

 

Mitchell says 250 players have tested positive, jesus.

[daa84]

very interesting to read that upper officials were very concerned about tendon injuries with guys like gagne and brown....they really seem to think tendon/connective tissue injuries are a strong sign of steroid use because the muscle builds up but not the tendons, and the connective tissues tend to collapse udner the added strain of the bulkier muscle

[HuskyCaucasian]

See, the problem with a list like this is the example of Matt Karchner. He's in the report as someone who willingly talked to the panel about members of the 1999 Chicago Cubs he personally saw inject - not because he himself used.

Good catch. I'll remove him.

[Kyyle23]

can we please get back to our regularly scheduled complaining about the 2008 White Sox? This steroids business is looney tunes.

 

I really liked listening to Mitchell pin this on the MLBPA and the MLB, and i am really interested to hear Selig and Fehr talk around it.

[bmags]

and the entry on rick ankiel doesn't really seem to indict him on anything more than we know.

[whitesoxfan99]

My friend who is a Yankee fan just told me his opinion about the list:

 

"Easy thing to do is just not care about it."

Easy for him to say when almost half the list is Yankee affiliation.

 

Most of baseball was using steroids. When it comes to baseball players and steroids I tend to believe in guilty until proven innocent.

[Linnwood]

Please tell me that Sosa is named in there.

 

 

Sosa is only mentioned on page 85, in the context that a letter was sent to his lawyer, but they got no response.

 

Neither McGwire nor his lawyer responded to that letter. (I sent similar letters with specific questions to lawyers for Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, and Gary Sheffield, none of whom provided answers to my questions either.)

Edited December 13, 2007 by Linnwood

[Balta1701]

In the report it was listed as several players injecting.

 

Mitchell says 250 players have tested positive, jesus.

That includes the minor leagues.

[Balta1701]

See, the problem with a list like this is the example of Matt Karchner. He's in the report as someone who willingly talked to the panel about members of the 1999 Chicago Cubs he personally saw inject - not because he himself used.

But the phrase earlier printed in this thread presents him as both a supplier and as a user. I would certainly count him.

[Kyyle23]

Strange that Sheffield was willing to bare it all to Sports Illustrated, but then he clammed up when Mitchell came a knockin

[Flash Tizzle]

Yeah, I was way off in predicting no notable names would be released. Even if a majority of the names are a bunch of scrubs and people we already know took steroids, Clemens alone will keep this in the spotlight for quite awhile. I'm dying to know how ESPN deals with this story. They'll probably say, "STEROIDS WERE WIDESPREAD, CLEMENS JUST DIDN'T USE THEM," or "HE'S STILL A HALL OF FAMER WITHOUT STEROIDS"

[rockren]

Most of baseball was using steroids. When it comes to baseball players and steroids I tend to believe in guilty until proven innocent.

 

Fair enough.

 

But where there's smoke....there's usually fire.

 

There is a lot of smoke around the Yankees. Too many Yankee affiliations are in there for someone not to suggest that they didn't care about a particular player's affiliation with HGH/Roids.

[HuskyCaucasian]

But the phrase earlier printed in this thread presents him as both a supplier and as a user. I would certainly count him.

It says he was OFFERED them and saw them used, no direct evidence that he used them.

 

Matt Karchner pitched for two teams in Major League Baseball between 1995 and

2000, the Chicago Cubs and the Chicago White Sox. Members of my investigative staff

contacted him as part of our effort to interview former major league players.

Karchner said that during spring training in 1999, he observed two of his Chicago

Cubs teammates inject themselves with steroids in an apartment that Karchner was sharing with

them. Karchner declined to identify the players. He said that one of the players brought the

steroids to the apartment but was afraid of needles and therefore asked the second player to

administer the shot. The second player injected the first player with steroids in the buttocks and

then injected himself.

Later that season, Karchner was offered steroids by certain of his Cubs

teammates. Karchner would not disclose the names of players who offered him steroids, but he

said that the conversations he had with them involved the general cost of steroids and discussions

of “stacking” to build lean muscle necessary for pitchers. Karchner did not report either of these

incidents to anyone at the time.

[rockren]

But the phrase earlier printed in this thread presents him as both a supplier and as a user. I would certainly count him.

 

You'd have to count him.

[longshot7]

I'd still like to go on record as saying I have no problem with players on steroids or HGH. Cheating is A-OK with me.

[Linnwood]

Strange that Sheffield was willing to bare it all to Sports Illustrated, but then he clammed up when Mitchell came a knockin

 

 

That is because Sheffield is a f***ing idiot. Just like he sat down with Costas, admitted that he did steroids, but then insisted they weren't really "steroids" because he didn't inject them "in his butt."

[Controlled Chaos]

This was the list as best as I could put together. (Sorry if I missed anyone):

Marvin Benard, Barry Bonds. Bobby Estalella, Jason Giambi. Jeremy Giambi, Benito Santiago, Gary Sheffield, Randy Velarde, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Larry Bigbie, Brian Roberts, Jack Cust, Tim Laker, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Hundley, Mark Carreon, Hal Morris, Matt Franco, Rondell White, Roger Clemens, Chuck Knoblauch, Jason Grimsley, Gregg Zaun, David Justice, F.P. Santangelo, Glenallen Hill, Mo Vaughn, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Ryan Franklin, Chris Donnels, Todd Williams, Phil Hiatt, Todd Pratt, Kevin Young, Mike Lansing, Cody McKay, Kent Mercker, Adam Piatt, Miguel Tejada, Jason Christiansen, Mike Stanton, Stephen Randolph, Jerry Hairston, Jr., Paul Lo Duca, Adam Riggs, Bart Miadich, Fernando Vina, Kevin Brown, Eric Gagné, Mike Bell, Matt Herges, Gary Bennett, Jr., Jim Parque, Brendan Donnelly, Chad Allen, Jeff Williams, Howie Clark, Nook Logan, Daniel Naulty, Jay Gibbons, Rick Ankiel, David Bell, Paul Byrd, Jose Canseco, Troy Glaus, Jason Grimsley, Jose Guillen, Darren Holmes, Gary Matthews, Jr., John Rocker, Scott Schoeneweis, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams, Steve Woodard

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1548718

I think Juan Gonzalez can be added to the list...there's stuff like this all through the report...There's isn't just a nice list of names....I'm sure someone will weed through it all soon enough. Nice job Athomeboy!!

 

On the evening of October 4, 2001, Canadian Border Service officers working at

Toronto’s international airport discovered steroids, syringes, and clenbuterol in an unmarked

duffel bag during an airport search of luggage that had been unloaded from the Cleveland

Indians flight from Kansas City.266 Ted Walsh, the Indians equipment and clubhouse manager

266 Facsimile from Adelia Piazza to Rob Manfred, dated Oct. 22, 2001. See also T.J.

Quinn, Michael O’Keefe & Christian Red, Bag Men: Gonzalez & trainer linked to 2001 steroid

probe, N.Y. Daily News, July 30, 2006, at 96. Clenbuterol is not an anabolic steroid, but it is

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who was present during the search, recognized the bag as one that had been sent down to be

included with the luggage by Cleveland outfielder Juan Gonzalez when the Indians left Kansas

City. On prior trips, Gonzalez had included bags for members of his entourage with his own

bags, and Walsh had the impression that this was the case with some of the bags he sent down to

be packed for the Toronto flight.

The customs officials requested Walsh to bring all of the luggage except the bag

in question to the team hotel as normal, which he did. The Indians resident security agent, Jim

Davidson, who was traveling with the team because of heightened security after the attacks of

September 11, 2001, met with local law enforcement officers in the hotel lobby. Mark Haynes,

the Canadian Border Service officer in charge of the investigation, told Davidson that syringes

and anabolic steroids had been found in the bag and that officers were going to replace the bag

with the Indians luggage to see who claimed it. Haynes also opened the bag and showed

Davidson the hypodermic needles, ampules, and other paraphernalia.

Thereafter, Davidson, Haynes, and other officials watched the luggage as Joshue

Perez, a member of Juan Gonzalez’s entourage, claimed the duffel bag. With Davidson present,

Haynes and other officers took Perez to an anteroom, where he told them that the bag belonged

to Angel (“Nao”) Presinal, Gonzalez’s personal trainer, who would be arriving in Toronto on a

later flight.

As soon as he arrived at the hotel, Presinal was detained by law enforcement

officers. In an interview at the hotel, Presinal denied that the bag belonged to him and asserted

that it belonged to, and had been packed by, Gonzalez. Haynes and Toronto police officers then

used by bodybuilders in the belief that it helps them to become leaner. It is a veterinary

medicine that is not approved for use by humans in the United States. See R.C. Kammerer,

Testing in Sport & Exercise, in Performance-Enhancing Substances in Sport & Exercise 323,

331 (Michael S. Bahrke and Charles E. Yesalis eds. 2002).

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went to Gonzalez’s room to question him about the bag. Although he had been present for the

interview of Presinal, Davidson was not invited to attend the interview of Gonzalez. After that

interview, Haynes reported that Gonzalez had denied any knowledge about the bag’s contents

and claimed that he had sent it down to be included with the team’s luggage at Presinal’s request.

According to Davidson’s account of the incident, during further questioning

Presinal admitted that he had packed the steroids but claimed that he carried them for Gonzalez,

whom he helped to administer them. Davidson reported that Presinal also claimed to have

assisted several other high-profile major league players in taking steroids. In our interview of

him in 2007, Presinal denied that he made any such statements. He asserted that he has no

knowledge of the involvement of any player in Major League Baseball with anabolic steroids or

other performance enhancing substances.

The next day, Davidson and Toronto’s resident security agent Wayne Cotgreave

had a conference call with Kevin Hallinan of the Commissioner’s Office’s security department

and members of his staff. Hallinan said that the matter would be handled from the

Commissioner’s Office in New York. Although Hallinan told Davidson that his office would

investigate the matter, there is no evidence that such an investigation ever was conducted beyond

a search for Presinal’s Cleveland address. None of the eyewitnesses whom we interviewed

during the course of our investigation was contacted by anyone about the incident until a news

report about it appeared in July 2006. Davidson was never asked to perform any follow-up work

with respect to the matter.

Rob Manfred told us that he did not believe a strong case could be made for

“reasonable cause” testing of Gonzalez because of conflicting statements by Presinal, Gonzalez,

and others about who the bag and steroids belonged to. Manfred nevertheless contacted Gene

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Orza of the Players Association about testing Gonzalez, but Orza refused to agree in this

instance. Manfred did not ask Orza for the Players Association’s permission to interview

Gonzalez because he thought such an interview would be fruitless even if the Players

Association agreed to it.

According to the July 2006 article, Presinal was “declared a pariah” by the

Commissioner’s Office after the events in Toronto in 2001, an assertion that Hallinan repeated in

our interview of him.267 By early in the 2002 season, however, Presinal was observed in and

around the clubhouse of the Texas Rangers (where Juan Gonzalez was playing at the time).

Sign-in records indicate that Presinal was in the Rangers clubhouse frequently that season. The

Rangers also reserved (but did not pay for) rooms for Presinal at the club’s hotels that season.

The Rangers’ general manager, John Hart, was aware of the October 2001 incident and

Presinal’s alleged role in it, since Hart joined the Rangers from the Indians after the 2001 season

and supported the Rangers’ decision to sign Gonzalez in 2002. In the summer of 2005, Presinal

was profiled by Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times for his in-season training of Bartolo

Colon of the Los Angeles Angels.268

After Presinal was spotted in the Rangers clubhouse in 2002, Major League

Baseball’s security department alerted all clubs and removed Presinal from the Texas ballpark;

he also was removed from the ballpark in Anaheim when he later was spotted there.

Presinal remains a prominent personal trainer for a number of professional

baseball players, operating out of facilities in the Dominican Republic. He also has worked with

players during the season in the United States. He was selected by the Dominican Baseball

267 See T.J. Quinn, Michael O’Keefe & Christian Red, Bag Men: Gonzalez & trainer

linked to 2001 steroid probe, N.Y. Daily News, July 30, 2006, at 96.

268 See Bill Shaikin, Colon Trying to Tip the Scales, L.A. Times, July 12, 2005, at D6.

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Federation to serve as a trainer for the Dominican Republic national team during the inaugural

World Baseball Classic in spring 2006, which included on its roster a number of players and

coaches from Major League Baseball.