Chisoxfn Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I updated the thread and if anyone is interested you can go to the first page and see a listing of all the players listed in the report. Let me know if there are any names that need to be added/removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 02:02 PM) I updated the thread and if anyone is interested you can go to the first page and see a listing of all the players listed in the report. Let me know if there are any names that need to be added/removed. Remove Sammy Hagar. NEVER trust wikipedia on breaking stories. They have to calm down for a few days to limit junk posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I'm sure it's been said before in this thread but...JIM PARQUE??? JIM PARQUE??? Seriously??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:57 AM) Brian McNamee will be targeted for character assassination since he's only associated with two names, and two big names at that. Good luck with that happening. Everyone close to the organization, including people in the media, know just how tight mcNamee was with Roger and everyone knows how tight Pettite and Roger are. The stuff in there is pretty damn concrete if you ask me and I'm glad to see Roger finally paying the price. He deserves as much s*** as Barry has gotten over the years. In fact he deserves it times 10 since Barry has had to put up with about 6 years of it by now (deservingly so for the most part). Barry Bonds isn't any different than Rocket....whooo. I still would pay money to see either of them play the game at there prime though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:05 PM) Remove Sammy Hagar. NEVER trust wikipedia on breaking stories. They have to calm down for a few days to limit junk posts. Fixed. I was looking there and another spot and hte list for the most part looked consistent and it was in nice easy to copy format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 03:08 PM) frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo.... I think he was going in anyway, but yeah, I'd say his shot at first ballot went up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:08 PM) frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo.... He should be first ballot. It is pretty evident that practically any player that actually had better offensive seasons in the past 5-10 years were using performance enhancing substances. I've been known to rip Frank but he deserves a lot of love for being an ethical ball player and one of the most amazing offensive players to ever play the game (I'm going to start saying that a lot because Thomas' accomplishments were really lessened by the results of the steroid driven players). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 02:10 PM) I think he was going in anyway, but yeah, I'd say his shot at first ballot went up. Well he's getting no credit in this article...that's for sure "Giambi, under threat of discipline from Selig, was the only current player known to have cooperated with the Mitchell investigation." Also, this same thing was just repeated by Boers Edited December 13, 2007 by Controlled Chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 01:49 PM) QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:48 AM) * It says he was OFFERED them and saw them used, no direct evidence that he used them." He said that one of the players brought the steroids to the apartment but was afraid of needles and therefore asked the second player to administer the shot. That sounds like he was asking someone else to inject him. Yes, to get it straight on Karchner. Nothing says that he used them. To the contrary, he witnessed 2 teammates in their apartment (the 3 lived together) shooting 'roids. He also says that teammate(s) offered steroids to him (Karchner) but he never accepted them. He does not name the players who he witnessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 02:10 PM) He should be first ballot. It is pretty evident that practically any player that actually had better offensive seasons in the past 5-10 years were using performance enhancing substances. I've been known to rip Frank but he deserves a lot of love for being an ethical ball player and one of the most amazing offensive players to ever play the game (I'm going to start saying that a lot because Thomas' accomplishments were really lessened by the results of the steroid driven players). Wasn't Frank the one who spearheaded the effort a few years ago where the Sox refused to take the tests to guarantee the 5% level for testing? He may have been a little salty at times, but he's still arguably the best pure hitter to play for the White Sox, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 It will be interesting to see if there is a reaction to Frank Thomas from this. I would hope he would be viewed as a true clean player that put up great numbers. Hopefully he is rewarded for an honest opinion and Bud gives him the 2000 MVP and he becomes a first ballot HOF member. Anyone find it odd that the White Sox are not as outspoken about the issue now as they were a few years back. I guess Frank lead that charge. Think he could have been a better hitter than Bonds if he juiced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:12 PM) Yes, to get it straight on Karchner. Nothing says that he used them. To the contrary, he witnessed 2 teammates in their apartment (the 3 lived together) shooting 'roids. He also says that teammate(s) offered steroids to him (Karchner) but he never accepted them. He does not name the players who he witnessed. How is it so impossible to find out what teammates were living with Karchner at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 03:07 PM) Good luck with that happening. Everyone close to the organization, including people in the media, know just how tight mcNamee was with Roger and everyone knows how tight Pettite and Roger are. The stuff in there is pretty damn concrete if you ask me and I'm glad to see Roger finally paying the price. He deserves as much s*** as Barry has gotten over the years. In fact he deserves it times 10 since Barry has had to put up with about 6 years of it by now (deservingly so for the most part). Barry Bonds isn't any different than Rocket....whooo. I still would pay money to see either of them play the game at there prime though Not sure if you meant the stuff on both, but I think the stuff on Pettitte only really says that McNamee knows he used HGH before 2003, when MLB banned it. Not as strong of a claim as everything about Clemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) It will be interesting to see if there is a reaction to Frank Thomas from this. I would hope he would be viewed as a true clean player that put up great numbers. Hopefully he is rewarded for an honest opinion and Bud gives him the 2000 MVP and he becomes a first ballot HOF member. Anyone find it odd that the White Sox are not as outspoken about the issue now as they were a few years back. I guess Frank lead that charge. Well, they haven't really needed to have they, once Congress and Selig actually got on the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsox Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 08:08 PM) frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo.... When Frank retires, his HOF vote should be unanimous for not only playing clean but for also speaking out against it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) Since Sammy Sosa isn't on the list does this mean he's clean. Or does that apply only to those who played for the White Sox when they won it all? Edited December 13, 2007 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) Since Sammy Sosa isn't on the list does this mean he's clean. Or does that apply only to those who played for the White Sox when they won it all? This clearly doesn't mean that either Sosa, the 05 White Sox, or anyone else not named was clean. In fact, it alleges that there were other people who were using who's names they couldn't get. But it is still a relief at some level that a lot of the guys from the recent world series teams haven't been connected with the networks that have already been broken up. Edited December 13, 2007 by Balta1701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Wow. Just took a moment to look at Roger Clemens's 1998 stats, which is the year that the Mitchell Report alleges he started using. The Splits are freaking remarkable. I Split G GS GF W L S CG SHO IP ERA H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP +-+------------+---+--+--+--+--+--+--+---+-----+------+---+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+ April/Mar. 5 5 0 2 3 0 0 0 27.1 3.62 17 14 11 0 17 0 24 1 May 6 6 0 3 3 0 0 0 42 3.43 32 19 16 3 21 0 45 2 June 6 6 0 4 0 0 2 0 42.1 4.04 42 20 19 4 14 0 44 1 July 5 5 0 4 0 0 0 0 36.1 1.73 25 7 7 1 13 0 35 1 August 6 6 0 4 0 0 3 3 50 0.90 25 7 5 0 10 0 68 0 Sept./Oct. 5 5 0 3 0 0 0 0 36.2 2.70 28 11 11 3 13 0 55 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) Wow. Just took a moment to look at Roger Clemens's 1998 stats, which is the year that the Mitchell Report alleges he started using. The Splits are freaking remarkable. People still b**** about the White Sox not signing him in 1997. His last 4 seasons in Boston he was 40-39. That guy was a good pitcher but not a HOFer at that point. He's a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 According to ESPN, Brian Roberts has been smeared and the allegations are hearsay. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 This whole thing is a fluff piece IMHO that will not be used to do anything other then an MLB CYA with Congress and a tool to try and get as much testing through the MLBPA as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 03:35 PM) This whole thing is a fluff piece IMHO that will not be used to do anything other then an MLB CYA with Congress and a tool to try and get as much testing through the MLBPA as possible. If the end result is stronger testing, then it was a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) This clearly doesn't mean that either Sosa, the 05 White Sox, or anyone else not named was clean. In fact, it alleges that there were other people who were using who's names they couldn't get. But it is still a relief at some level that a lot of the guys from the recent world series teams haven't been connected with the networks that have already been broken up. first 16 starts - 102.2 IP, 3.77 ERA, 8-6 last 17 starts - 132 IP, 1.77 ERA, 12-0 that's ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) Wasn't Frank the one who spearheaded the effort a few years ago where the Sox refused to take the tests to guarantee the 5% level for testing? He may have been a little salty at times, but he's still arguably the best pure hitter to play for the White Sox, ever. Here's a NYT article from 2003 on that: link It's pretty interesting reading. Nice quote from Giambi calling the Sox stupid. In retrospect, it's sort of surprising this failed insurrection wasn't more widely reported...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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