FireKennyWilliams.com

[iamshack]

I understand you think Garland is overpaid at $12 million. I agree with you. But removing him from the rotation and counting on the other 2 mentioned to pick up the slack isn't a move a team "going for it" in 2008 makes. While it makes sense for the Sox to deal Garland, a 33 year old SS who supposedly isn't interested in signing a contract extension, doesn't seem to me to be the play. I don't like Floyd, I think Danks will eventually be decent, and it really wouldn't bother me if they were in the rotation and even wouldn't bother me if Jerry Owens played everyday if the White Sox would just admit they are short and at least attempted a partial rebuild. But since the GM thinks they still are the team to beat, I think putting these guys in these positions isn't going to win you many games.

 

Damn, you piss me off some days.

 

Why must you have this habit of changing everything around so that it appears to suit your argument?

 

And additionally, try criticizing the guy from a standpoint which shows a little more realism. Honestly. The way you expect him to comment publicly only happens in Dick Allen Fantasy World.

Edited December 16, 2007 by iamshack

[StrangeSox]

And additionally, try criticizing the guy from a standpoint which shows a little more realism. Honestly. The way you expect him to comment publicly only happens in Dick Allen Fantasy World.

 

What seemingly ridiculous comments did the Twins, Royals, or Indians GMs make after the Tigers made that trade?

[greg775]

The guy did nothing special but last many innings and if you take away all of those games against inept AL Central teams (at the time) i don't think he would of had as many Wins as he did.

 

This is what I don't get. You think Jose, Danks and Floyd are going to last many innings?

I don't. And even Vas has had the history of getting lit up after five.

We need some inning eaters.

 

Also, I don't think many of us would have minded dealing him, but I think we got

robbed. We got an old ss whose contract is running out.

[Guest]

This is what I don't get. You think Jose, Danks and Floyd are going to last many innings?

I don't. And even Vas has had the history of getting lit up after five.

We need some inning eaters.

 

Also, I don't think many of us would have minded dealing him, but I think we got

robbed. We got an old ss whose contract is running out.

 

I never said that but I would rather watch Danks who has a curveball Judy Garland could only wish for. The stance, however poor it may be, with Chicago's other starting pitchers does not enter the equation when I speak of Jon Garland being nothing special and totally overpaid. We were going to lose him after this season any way, atleast we got a solid SS for him. Garland does nothing better than average. He has nothing in his stable of pitches that would scare any batter. nothing at all... Danks does. That curveball is NASTY!

[Dick Allen]

Damn, you piss me off some days.

 

Why must you have this habit of changing everything around so that it appears to suit your argument?

 

And additionally, try criticizing the guy from a standpoint which shows a little more realism. Honestly. The way you expect him to comment publicly only happens in Dick Allen Fantasy World.

I would expect the comment about Cabrera going to Detroit either not be said, or if it were a joke, made sure its interpreted like that. I also wouldn't popping off on how 3/4 of his offseason makeover is complete, just missing out on a CF. Obviously there will still be some moves made unless he's changed his name to Noah and needs 2 of everything, but I think its only in KW and iamshack's fantasy world that adding a CF to the current roster and nothing else is enough to make the team a contender.

 

If Torii Hunter is the difference between the White Sox being a serious title contender and where they are at right now, he would have been a bargain at 5/$90 million. They would have made more than enough to cover that investment.

Edited December 16, 2007 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

I would expect the comment about Cabrera going to Detroit either not be said, or if it were a joke, made sure its interpreted like that. I also wouldn't popping off on how 3/4 of his offseason makeover is complete, just missing out on a CF. Obviously there will still be some moves made unless he's changed his name to Noah and needs 2 of everything, but I think its only in KW and iamshack's fantasy world that adding a CF to the current roster and nothing else is enough to make the team a contender.

 

If Torii Hunter is the difference between the White Sox being a serious title contender and where they are at right now, he would have been a bargain at 5/$90 million. They would have made more than enough to cover that investment.

 

DA, I understand your logic in regards to fielding a team that can compete with Detroit, and Cleveland, and the other AL powers. And I don't think that as things stand now, we can. However, everyone needs to reset their compasses a bit here. I choose to believe that the team we have assembled now is not one where the bar is set to 72 wins and we need to add pieces to build up from there. You an choose to go off the assumption that where we fell to last season was where we stand now, but I don't. For all the teams we had on paper that were better than other teams in our division and we did not win. And for the team we had on paper that didn't look like much at all that ended up winning the whole thing...well, crazy things happen in baseball, and I'm not one to write off a team before the season even begins...

 

Some moves need to be made, for sure. And they hopefully will be. But harping and harping and harping on everything the man says...it gets really old, really fast. And that's a lot of what you're coming with lately.

[southsideirish]

This is what I don't get. You think Jose, Danks and Floyd are going to last many innings?

I don't. And even Vas has had the history of getting lit up after five.

We need some inning eaters.

 

Also, I don't think many of us would have minded dealing him, but I think we got

robbed. We got an old ss whose contract is running out.

 

That is odd that you think the White Sox got robbed. Most that follow baseball can't figure out what the hell the Angels are doing getting another starting pitcher and giving up a hell of a SS - one of the best SSs in the league, plus throwing in cash. They got an overpaid #3 or 4 starter for one of the best SSs in the league plus threw in some cash to the White Sox. BRILLIANT!

[greg775]

I never said that but I would rather watch Danks who has a curveball Judy Garland could only wish for. The stance, however poor it may be, with Chicago's other starting pitchers does not enter the equation when I speak of Jon Garland being nothing special and totally overpaid. We were going to lose him after this season any way, atleast we got a solid SS for him. Garland does nothing better than average. He has nothing in his stable of pitches that would scare any batter. nothing at all... Danks does. That curveball is NASTY!

 

Is this the same Garland who has had many games in which he has been simply dominant?

I mean I hope Danks can be great, I do, but Garland had some hellish starts.

We also are going to lose our new ss after one year.

How come everybody that says we were going to lose Garland anyway never care that the guy we got figures to leave in a year as well.

And I could care less we got cash in the deal for Garland as well.

What is KW doing with that cash?

Not much of late.

 

I can't believe you'd rather watch Danks than Garland pitch at this point.

I sure as hell wouldn't.

Does everybody on the board agree with him on that?

You'd rather watch Danks start or Garland?

[fathom]

I think we'll miss Garland's durability a lot. I'm stunned when people suggest the drop off from Garland to Floyd isn't severe.

[hitlesswonder]

I never said that but I would rather watch Danks who has a curveball Judy Garland could only wish for. The stance, however poor it may be, with Chicago's other starting pitchers does not enter the equation when I speak of Jon Garland being nothing special and totally overpaid. We were going to lose him after this season any way, atleast we got a solid SS for him. Garland does nothing better than average. He has nothing in his stable of pitches that would scare any batter. nothing at all... Danks does. That curveball is NASTY!

 

I'd like you to call Jon Garland "Judy" to his face Garland is a good pitcher: 200 innings of league average pitching is actually an above average performance. Last year he was 25th in the AL in ERA. He was #7 in quality starts: tied with Santana and better than Buehrle or Vazquez. Jon didn't have great trade value because he had a single year left and was getting $12M (not that he's overpaid, he's just not cheap).

 

Nothing against Danks, but he will not be the pitcher Garland was last year in 2008. He just won't. Look up Garland's numbers from his age 21 season and compare them to Danks' numbers. If you were logical, Danks would be the one you were calling by a girl's name (and I'd be unimpressed by that as well).

[DBAHO]

I think we'll miss Garland's durability a lot. I'm stunned when people suggest the drop off from Garland to Floyd isn't severe.

It isn't if Floyd can prove his last 6 starts in 07 wasn't a fluke.

 

And then of course there's the issue of Garland's shoulder and his "knot".

 

We all saw what happened with Freddy Garcia, and he was meant to be "durable" as well.

[witesoxfan]

I don't. And even Vas has had the history of getting lit up after five.

 

Jon Garland has one good year, and he's the messiah. Javy Vazquez has had multiple good years and is coming off a fantastic year, yet you can't seem to forget about a 3 month stretch he had in 2006. That's call discriminating.

 

Beyond that, Javier Vazquez is a better pitcher than Garland. While that is not fact, it's pretty close.

 

We need some inning eaters.

 

We need a little more than some inning eaters.

 

[Guest]

For the record, I have called Mr. Garland Judy to his face on multiple occasions as he did his pretty little waltz off of the field like he was Randy Johnson with a feminine southern california touch. The guy has nothing special in his stable of pitches. that's the bottomline. he's a mediocre pitcher that NOT A SINGLE BATTER in baseball is afraid to face. atleast Danks is young and learning. He's got tricky pitches that will make the batter think and that's more than Jon can say. besides, it's a MOOT point now.

Edited December 17, 2007 by DonnyDevito

[Guest]

It isn't if Floyd can prove his last 6 starts in 07 wasn't a fluke.

 

And then of course there's the issue of Garland's shoulder and his "knot".

 

We all saw what happened with Freddy Garcia, and he was meant to be "durable" as well.

 

Heck, Floyd's last 10 appearances were superb IMO.

 

45.2 innings pitched, 18 earned runs. I'll take that all day long from Mr. Floyd.

 

What is that, a 2.5 ERA...she it that's what I'm talking about.

 

And the best thing of all is Gavin Floyd is another Tigers killer!!! In Gavin's last 21 innings pitched against Detroit, he only gave up 2 runs. earned or otherwise.

Edited December 18, 2007 by DonnyDevito

[hitlesswonder]

For the record, I have called Mr. Garland Judy to his face on multiple occasions as he did his pretty little waltz off of the field like he was Randy Johnson with a feminine southern california touch. The guy has nothing special in his stable of pitches. that's the bottomline. he's a mediocre pitcher that NOT A SINGLE BATTER in baseball is afraid to face. atleast Danks is young and learning. He's got tricky pitches that will make the batter think and that's more than Jon can say. besides, it's a MOOT point now.

 

Joe Cowley, is that you?

 

I mean, I get it. Jon is from Cali and Danks is from Texas. We all know who the better pitcher is based on the that alone.

 

Seriously, all those tricky pitches Danks had generated a an age 21 season significantly worse than Garland's age 21 season. The question was how big the dropoff in the rotation would be with Garland gone. What part about 7th in the AL in quality starts did you not get? It's going to be hard to replace that unless Danks or Floyd can pull off a Carmonaesque sophomore year (which is pretty unlikely). Maybe you are right and Garland really is a bag of Chardonnay-swilling suck, but somehow despite that he was one of the top 30 starting pitchers in the AL last season.

 

It is a moot point, but only because the Sox won't contend anyway -- so they might as well pitch the kids. I just hope you aren't too disappointed.

[greg775]

For the record, I have called Mr. Garland Judy to his face on multiple occasions as he did his pretty little waltz off of the field like he was Randy Johnson with a feminine southern california touch

 

Big deal.

Tough guy.

Call him that in a bar or on the street, not where the stands separate you from Judy.

Are you a Sox fan?

The guy is not a No. 1 pitcher or No. 2 but he is good.

How you can not admit Garland is a good pitcher is beyond me.

How do you know nobody fears any of his pitches?

He looked pretty damn good in that 1-hitter.

If Garland pitched quicker ALL THE TIME like Mark B, he'd be a total stud.

He's not, though. But he is a No. 3 pitcher.

We are going to miss him whether you admit it or not.

[Dick Allen]

Heck, Floyd's last 10 appearances were superb IMO.

 

45.2 innings pitched, 18 earned runs. I'll take that all day long from Mr. Floyd.

 

What is that, a 2.5 ERA...she it that's what I'm talking about.

 

And the best thing of all is Gavin Floyd is another Tigers killer!!! In Gavin's last 21 innings pitched against Detroit, he only gave up 2 runs. earned or otherwise.

Hopefully the Tigers will be without Rodriguez, Sheffield and Ordonez not to mention Renteria and Cabrera when they see him next time. Timo Perez was hitting 3rd in Leyland's line-up against him one game and 5th the other. In his 3 good games against the Tigers the Tigers had Casey, Rayburn and Timo batting 3rd. The time they had a full line-up he was killed.

[witesoxfan]

Heck, Floyd's last 10 appearances were superb IMO.

 

45.2 innings pitched, 18 earned runs. I'll take that all day long from Mr. Floyd.

 

What is that, a 2.5 ERA...she it that's what I'm talking about.

 

And the best thing of all is Gavin Floyd is another Tigers killer!!! In Gavin's last 21 innings pitched against Detroit, he only gave up 2 runs. earned or otherwise.

 

That's a 3.55 ERA

 

(ER*9)/IP

 

pretty simple

[Guest]

I'm a Bulls/Illini/Bears fan first and then Sox for obvious reasons...thanks for the formula. Baseball is such a slow game compared to other sports. in football and basketball, everyone on the field or court is involved all of the time. in baseball, it's basically just the pitcher v. the batter. and then maybe it's the ss to 1b while most of the players are either sitting on the bench or picking daisies in the field.

 

You would have to have a man crush on Jon Garland to think he is special or anything more than mediocre.

Edited December 19, 2007 by DonnyDevito

[fathom]

I'm a Bulls/Illini/Bears fan first and then Sox for obvious reasons...thanks for the formula. Baseball is such a slow game compared to other sports. in football and basketball, everyone on the field or court is involved all of the time. in baseball, it's basically just the pitcher v. the batter. and then maybe it's the ss to 1b while most of the players are either sitting on the bench or picking daisies in the field.

 

You would have to have a man crush on Jon Garland to think he is special or anything more than mediocre.

 

Anything more than mediocre? If you want to call him that, that's fine. I don't think there's enough negative superlatives in the dictionary to describe Floyd, Danks, and Garland then.

[Guest]

Anything more than mediocre? If you want to call him that, that's fine. I don't think there's enough negative superlatives in the dictionary to describe Floyd, Danks, and Garland then.

 

Floyd and Danks actually have plus pitches though. that is the thing. Garland doesn't have plus anything.

Edited December 19, 2007 by DonnyDevito

[bmags]

plus sinker? The hate for Jon Garland on this board is beyond ridiculous.

[witesoxfan]

Floyd and Danks actually have plus pitches though. that is the thing. Garland doesn't have plus anything.

 

Good sinker, good control

[Kalapse]

plus sinker? The hate for Jon Garland on this board is beyond ridiculous.

You really shouldn't take the misguided thoughts of one rogue poster as a consensus ideal of the board. Jon Garland was an above average starting pitcher during his time in Chicago, if someone feels he has been mediocre then they either a.) don't fully comprehend the meaning of the term or b.) don't know how to interpret the statistics. Jon possesses a plus sinker and usually a pretty good fastball (at least in terms of velocity) he's been a pretty steady #3 throughout his career, easily one of the most consistent (from season to season) and durable starting pitchers of this decade.

[StrangeSox]

Floyd and Danks actually have plus pitches though. that is the thing. Garland doesn't have plus anything.

 

Garland has sustained big league success and two 18 win seasons. I'll take that over Floyd and Danks plus pitches.