Confirmed interest in Prior

[Harry Chappas]

The Pedro signing was pretty bold, imo. 4 years for a guy with a lot of questions. Beyond that I'd agree.

 

I guess you could call the Milledge trade bold, if bold means foolish.

 

Minaya is like Mariotti. It is easy to spend other people's money.

[iamshack]

The Pedro signing was pretty bold, imo. 4 years for a guy with a lot of questions. Beyond that I'd agree.

 

I guess you could call the Milledge trade bold, if bold means foolish.

 

Sure, signing Pedro was Bold. And while he's been above average over his career with the Mets, they've thus far paid him about $40 million for 59 starts and 378 IP. That works out to what, $105, 820 per inning pitched or $677,966 per start. Not sure if that has worked out very well for them. And they still owe him $10 million in 08'.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I wanted to make the point, counter to your assertions, that our depth isn't so much depth as a lot of bodies, so I understand why people would want someone else. I wasn't trying to insult or pick a fight...sorry if it came off that way.

When it comes to starting pitching, this organization does in fact have some depth of talent. With Gio and Eggy behind the starting 5, and a few other strong starters in the system, that already puts the Sox above the median in terms of depth.

 

But you are almost correct about... well, everything else in the system: position player talent and bullpen depth are pretty bad. Not completely bereft of anything of course, but close.

 

[Balta1701]

When it comes to starting pitching, this organization does in fact have some depth of talent. With Gio and Eggy behind the starting 5, and a few other strong starters in the system, that already puts the Sox above the median in terms of depth.

 

But you are almost correct about... well, everything else in the system: position player talent and bullpen depth are pretty bad. Not completely bereft of anything of course, but close.

The one thing we might have to hope for is that it's possible that between Quentin, Owens, Anderson, and Sweeney, we might still be able to assemble a young OF soon. But...everyone has to admit, there's 4 question marks behind those 4 guys. Quentin Injury, Owens OBP/Slug/Age, Anderson attitude/swing/injuries, Sweeney injuries/stubbornness/slugging.

 

Beyond that, we do have a couple of young guys in the field, Richar and Fields, but again, both have question marks. Richar = Raw, and Fields = big power but needs to cut down on the k's. Beyond that though, we really don't have anyone to cover several key positions, including 1b, SS, and C if anyone goes down, and we don't have any depth to fill in at positions if any of those guys flop. We at least can say about the pitching staff that we do have that.

 

I'll still say that if everything were to go right, we could be competitive this year. But just in case, I think McPherson is a good fit in that he may give us a backup guy who might have some power left in his bat and who could play 1b or DH if Big Jim gets hurt. And for this team it makes a lot more sense to gamble on Gio, Egbert, DLS, Floyd, Haeger, Broadway, Danks, Sisco, Contreras, and whoever else I'm forgetting as potentially filling those starting spots than it does to gamble on Prior.

[jackie hayes]

Sure, signing Pedro was Bold. And while he's been above average over his career with the Mets, they've thus far paid him about $40 million for 59 starts and 378 IP. That works out to what, $105, 820 per inning pitched or $677,966 per start. Not sure if that has worked out very well for them. And they still owe him $10 million in 08'.

Eh...there's no such thing as a safe, bold move. Though those numbers don't really look bad, in retrospect -- considering Silva's going to get almost $400K per start over the next 4 years (and that's if he stays healthy the entire time). Overall, I think that deal worked out pretty well for the Mets.

[NorthSideSox72]

The one thing we might have to hope for is that it's possible that between Quentin, Owens, Anderson, and Sweeney, we might still be able to assemble a young OF soon. But...everyone has to admit, there's 4 question marks behind those 4 guys. Quentin Injury, Owens OBP/Slug/Age, Anderson attitude/swing/injuries, Sweeney injuries/stubbornness/slugging.

 

Beyond that, we do have a couple of young guys in the field, Richar and Fields, but again, both have question marks. Richar = Raw, and Fields = big power but needs to cut down on the k's. Beyond that though, we really don't have anyone to cover several key positions, including 1b, SS, and C if anyone goes down, and we don't have any depth to fill in at positions if any of those guys flop. We at least can say about the pitching staff that we do have that.

 

I'll still say that if everything were to go right, we could be competitive this year. But just in case, I think McPherson is a good fit in that he may give us a backup guy who might have some power left in his bat and who could play 1b or DH if Big Jim gets hurt. And for this team it makes a lot more sense to gamble on Gio, Egbert, DLS, Floyd, Haeger, Broadway, Danks, Sisco, Contreras, and whoever else I'm forgetting as potentially filling those starting spots than it does to gamble on Prior.

I think the chances of this team, as its stands now, being competitive for a playoff spot, are very, very long. If they manage to pull of something unexpected to upgrade CF, and/or they do something elsewhere that significantly improves the team... then maybe that 1 in 50 shot becomes 1 in 10 at best - if the improvements at a couple slots are strong enough. Without that, this team would need a miracle to get into the playoffs.

 

Stranger things have happened though.

 

[Balta1701]

I think the chances of this team, as its stands now, being competitive for a playoff spot, are very, very long. If they manage to pull of something unexpected to upgrade CF, and/or they do something elsewhere that significantly improves the team... then maybe that 1 in 50 shot becomes 1 in 10 at best - if the improvements at a couple slots are strong enough. Without that, this team would need a miracle to get into the playoffs.

Like I said, everything needs to go right.

[Gregory Pratt]

Huge, super bold moves? He walked into David Wright and Jose Reyes. That helps a bit. He signed Beltran. Good signing, but he basically outbid everyone else in baseball, and since then, Beltran has been hot and cold. Plenty of rumors about them willing to move him in the right deal over the past year. A couple other high profile signings- Delgado, LoDuca, but nothing earthshatteringly brilliant there. Best moves have probably been getting Oli Perez and John Maine, although Maine came back to earth the final few months.

 

I don't think he's necessarily bad, but I don't see him as anything above average, either. With the resources he has to work with over there, I don't think he's done anything more than be a beneficiary of having almost every player available to him in one way or another.

 

And some of his worst moves, IMO, are ones he didn't make. Has refused to deal for a top of the rotation starter when his team desperately could of used one at the end of the last two seasons...

 

As others pointed out -- Pedro!

I think it's inexcusable to make a list of bold moves Minaya made to re-make his franchise and not mention Pedro or Wagner.

 

He turned that franchise into a serious contender. He was bold. He deserves credit for taking huge risks. That's all I'm saying.

 

When it comes to starting pitching, this organization does in fact have some depth of talent. With Gio and Eggy behind the starting 5, and a few other strong starters in the system, that already puts the Sox above the median in terms of depth.

 

But you are almost correct about... well, everything else in the system: position player talent and bullpen depth are pretty bad. Not completely bereft of anything of course, but close.

 

I'm not high on Egbert. And Gio needs to prove himself at higher levels and be durable in the Major Leagues to prove anything. Gio's a bit exciting, but he's a huge question mark. And after those two, we haven't got much besides DLS who is a ways away.

[NorthSideSox72]

He turned that franchise into a serious contender. He was bold. He deserves credit for taking huge risks. That's all I'm saying.

Are you talking about KW? Sounds a lot like KW. Look at the Sox of the decades before 2001, and how often they were "contenders". A lot less often than under KW, in basically all cases.

 

[iamshack]

Are you talking about KW? Sounds a lot like KW. Look at the Sox of the decades before 2001, and how often they were "contenders". A lot less often than under KW, in basically all cases.

 

Exactly. As I said, Omar is KW with $1 instead of .50 cents and 1 less WS title.

[RockRaines]

The amount of teams that have looked at Priors meds and taken themsevles out of the running says enough for me. Hes done.

[Gregory Pratt]

Are you talking about KW? Sounds a lot like KW. Look at the Sox of the decades before 2001, and how often they were "contenders". A lot less often than under KW, in basically all cases.

 

We were "serious contenders" every year but 2005 in the Comedy Central in the same way that the Brewers have been contenders in this current Comedy Central over in the NL.

[RME JICO]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7603924

 

From Robo:

San Diego has signed oft-injured former Cub Mark Prior to a one-year deal, according to major-league sources.

[max power]

I'd be willing to bet he doesn't end up with the Padres.

Funny I got redirected to this post.

[iamshack]

Funny I got redirected to this post.

 

Well obviously he took less money to sign with San Diego- he basically said the hell with the money, I'm going to go where it's most comfortable and try to put myself in the best position to break the bank next season. You may recall did I did mention in a different post that Prior and Towers often take long walks together. So it isn't as though I didn't think it could happen, just that he wouldn't forsake 2-4 million more dollars to sign with the Padres. Obviously, he did.

 

[Balta1701]

Well obviously he took less money to sign with San Diego- he basically said the hell with the money, I'm going to go where it's most comfortable and try to put myself in the best position to break the bank next season. You may recall did I did mention in a different post that Prior and Towers often take long walks together. So it isn't as though I didn't think it could happen, just that he wouldn't forsake 2-4 million more dollars to sign with the Padres. Obviously, he did.

He also took less money in exchange for a 1 year deal that will allow him to pitch in the best pitcher's park in MLB. If he thinks there's a good chance he'll be healthy at the end of next year, then maybe he comes out and hits the FA market next year having put up a 3.25 ERA in the 2nd half or something, helped out by Petco, and he makes up that extra couple million right away.

[iamshack]

He also took less money in exchange for a 1 year deal that will allow him to pitch in the best pitcher's park in MLB. If he thinks there's a good chance he'll be healthy at the end of next year, then maybe he comes out and hits the FA market next year having put up a 3.25 ERA in the 2nd half or something, helped out by Petco, and he makes up that extra couple million right away.

 

Oh I absolutely agree with you, it was a smart decision on his part- that park should help his performance and he'll obviously be comfortable there, as he is from that area. But one would think that he had better 1-year offers on the table- the Dodgers perhaps, the Mariners, etc. And honestly, I'm surprised he didn't go for the extra money.

[iamshack]

Oh, btw, it seems Prior can earn $4.5 million in incentives with the deal as well.

[JohnCangelosi]

Oh, btw, it seems Prior can earn $4.5 million in incentives with the deal as well.

The end result still is some people are on record of wanting to give prior 1-2 years at a GUARANTEED $3M+ per year. Even someone mentioned a 1 yr deal at less than 5M would be a bargain with an option of 8M on a second year!

 

Uhh...how about 1M!!!!

 

LOL- I get a kick out of it though. People want to play GM on this board and then expose themselves by saying something like offering him 2 years, offering him around a guaranteed 5M with an option for 8M (check out earlier posts on this thread for more info) when the reality the max you would have to give this guy is 1M plus some incentives.

 

The proposed trades I have seen on this forum and the FA signings outside of the "no brainer" FA's (Hunter, etc) have always been way out of wack.

 

Here's yet another example.

 

Sure, he got 1M - a major league contract and it was incentive laden that will get him an additional 4.5 M IF he meets them but we don't know what those incentives are- I would guess they are well above a 2M bonus for showing up smiling everyday.

 

So, sure SD's park had a good deal to do with the signing for only 1M + incentives. However, anything around $3M would be a ridiculous contract for a guy who probably won't be pitching until May of next year and is clearly off the juice and it's showing. I can't see this guy competing next year or any year soon, I cannot believe anyone would consider wasting a frickin dollar on this guy at this point- hell, I think resigning Pods would be a 100X better of a move.

 

 

[iamshack]

<!--quoteo(post=1553195:date=Dec 26, 2007 -> 05:05 PM:name=iamshack)-->

<!--quotec-->Oh, btw, it seems Prior can earn $4.5 million in incentives with the deal as well.

The end result still is some people are on record of wanting to give prior 1-2 years at a GUARANTEED $3M+ per year. Even someone mentioned a 1 yr deal at less than 5M would be a bargain with an option of 8M on a second year!

 

Uhh...how about 1M!!!!

 

LOL- I get a kick out of it though. People want to play GM on this board and then expose themselves by saying something like offering him 2 years, offering him around a guaranteed 5M with an option for 8M (check out earlier posts on this thread for more info) when the reality the max you would have to give this guy is 1M plus some incentives.

 

The proposed trades I have seen on this forum and the FA signings outside of the "no brainer" FA's (Hunter, etc) have always been way out of wack.

 

Here's yet another example.

 

Sure, he got 1M - a major league contract and it was incentive laden that will get him an additional 4.5 M IF he meets them but we don't know what those incentives are- I would guess they are well above a 2M bonus for showing up smiling everyday.

 

So, sure SD's park had a good deal to do with the signing for only 1M + incentives. However, anything around $3M would be a ridiculous contract for a guy who probably won't be pitching until May of next year and is clearly off the juice and it's showing. I can't see this guy competing next year or any year soon, I cannot believe anyone would consider wasting a frickin dollar on this guy at this point- hell, I think resigning Pods would be a 100X better of a move.

 

I really, really think you're misjudging the market for Prior here. And I really think you're overlooking his desire to pitch in San Diego for his buddy Kevin Towers. He took that deal because he wants to be comfortable and make his money beginning next year. I'd be really surprised if he didn't have at least 1-2 offers on the table for a guaranteed base of $3-4 million.

[JohnCangelosi]

I really, really think you're misjudging the market for Prior here. And I really think you're overlooking his desire to pitch in San Diego for his buddy Kevin Towers. He took that deal because he wants to be comfortable and make his money beginning next year. I'd be really surprised if he didn't have at least 1-2 offers on the table for a guaranteed base of $3-4 million.

Perhaps- I just cannot believe that any team in their right mind would pay that. Did you see him pitch against the Sox in ST last year?? He was about 200 lbs lighter than the Prior of 2003 and was topping out at 88 MPH with absolutely NO control.

 

This is coming from the guy that could hit a tea cup at 95 a few years back. I just don't see him regaining form or pitching again in the big leagues unless he finds some new undetectable juice he can get on...

[iamshack]

<!--quoteo(post=1553213:date=Dec 26, 2007 -> 05:50 PM:name=iamshack)-->

<!--quotec-->I really, really think you're misjudging the market for Prior here. And I really think you're overlooking his desire to pitch in San Diego for his buddy Kevin Towers. He took that deal because he wants to be comfortable and make his money beginning next year. I'd be really surprised if he didn't have at least 1-2 offers on the table for a guaranteed base of $3-4 million.

Perhaps- I just cannot believe that any team in their right mind would pay that. Did you see him pitch against the Sox in ST last year?? He was about 200 lbs lighter than the Prior of 2003 and was topping out at 88 MPH with absolutely NO control.

 

This is coming from the guy that could hit a tea cup at 95 a few years back. I just don't see him regaining form or pitching again in the big leagues unless he finds some new undetectable juice he can get on...

 

Well I don't disagree with that assessment. But there are always a few teams that are willing to buy into the hype...

[LVSoxFan]

All I know is that the one possible bright light in an off-season signing--the possibility of signing an iffy ace at a low price--is gone.

 

But hey, don't worry! 2008 will be fan-freakin-tastic! Didn't ya hear? Kenny Wannestedt signed the Cuban Slugger ™!

[NorthSideSox72]

All I know is that the one possible bright light in an off-season signing--the possibility of signing an iffy ace at a low price--is gone.

 

But hey, don't worry! 2008 will be fan-freakin-tastic! Didn't ya hear? Kenny Wannestedt signed the Cuban Slugger ™!

One possible bright light? Did you miss the offseason or something? The team improved and picked up a serious prospect for LF in Quentin... improved at SS with a gold glove defender with a decent OBP in Cabrera... bullpen was improved by adding Linebrink, so that Jenks has a solid setup guy in front of him... and having Ramirez gives the possibility of a future starting CF or 2B (if Richar flops).

 

I understand people are disappointed that KW didn't get his reach guy (M-Cab) or one of the high end CF's out there (Hunter, Rowand). I was too. But so far offseason, the team has improved in LF, CF, SS and the bullpen to varying degrees. Not to mention the addition by subtraction of Erstad, Pods, Myers and Gonzalez. This is a significantly better team than 2007's. Probably not good enough to win this division yet, but, a lot closer than they were.

 

And the really underappreciated story to me, this offseason, is the large number of front office and scouting/development staff moves. Its clear that KW and company are serious about making changes to the way the team develops young talent - something that was sorely needed. Expect the 2008 minor league season, and the draft, to have a very different look than recent years.

 

Going forward, chances are, Crede and Uribe will be traded for prospects of some sort, which can only help the farm system (though probably in a small way). The only place the team got weaker, probably, is one SP spot - and I do agree on that being a potentially big issue. I am hoping that Kenny can add a last minute pitcher to the mix.

 

[sircaffey]

One possible bright light? Did you miss the offseason or something? The team improved and picked up a serious prospect for LF in Quentin... improved at SS with a gold glove defender with a decent OBP in Cabrera... bullpen was improved by adding Linebrink, so that Jenks has a solid setup guy in front of him... and having Ramirez gives the possibility of a future starting CF or 2B (if Richar flops).

 

I understand people are disappointed that KW didn't get his reach guy (M-Cab) or one of the high end CF's out there (Hunter, Rowand). I was too. But so far offseason, the team has improved in LF, CF, SS and the bullpen to varying degrees. Not to mention the addition by subtraction of Erstad, Pods, Myers and Gonzalez. This is a significantly better team than 2007's. Probably not good enough to win this division yet, but, a lot closer than they were.

 

And the really underappreciated story to me, this offseason, is the large number of front office and scouting/development staff moves. Its clear that KW and company are serious about making changes to the way the team develops young talent - something that was sorely needed. Expect the 2008 minor league season, and the draft, to have a very different look than recent years.

Going forward, chances are, Crede and Uribe will be traded for prospects of some sort, which can only help the farm system (though probably in a small way). The only place the team got weaker, probably, is one SP spot - and I do agree on that being a potentially big issue. I am hoping that Kenny can add a last minute pitcher to the mix.

 

Hopefully you are right. The draft should be a clear cut way of determining whether this organization really changed it's philosophy or not. We'll need to go over slot to make up for the lost draft picks. I look forward to the draft more than the rest of this offseason personally.