The White Sox and Alexei Ramírez agree to 4 year deal

[Marky Mark]

Since your a White Sox insider and in player development you must know the reason the White Sox signed this guy. Do they want him to be a utility guy or are they looking at him as a future Centerfielder or shortstop? I really don't know why you posted all that you posted. You do know that they can find out who you are even if you don't post your name on this site. Wouldn't some in the White Sox organization not want stuff posted that you have posted?

 

 

Perhaps they signed him to shut a lot of angry clueless people up.

[G&T]

That's sort of the point if they weren't superstars in Japan then there's no reason to believe they'd suddenly find super stardom over here. Ichiro and Hideki were above average to great players over there and they've been above average to great over here as well. Iguchi was a pretty good player over there, was expected to be about an average offensive player over here and lived up to those expectations. Taguchi and Shinjo were ok starting players over there, expected to be nothing more than role players over here and what do know they lived up to those expectations. If you're going to go by how past Japanese position players have faired in the US when projecting Fukudome's transition to the American game then there's a damn good chance he's going to be a pretty good player over here similarly to how he was over there.

 

Hell I think Shingo lived up to expectations just fine, he was never expected to be a star closer over here but for 1 season he was pretty damn close. He was older and approaching the end of his career, signed a short term, cheap deal with a US team and held his own for a whole season.

 

Look no further than the Dodgers' closer, Saito for an example of a Japanese player who has long exceeded expectations and has become one of the best closers in American Baseball. Just going off the top of my head I can't think of many Japanese players (pitchers or otherwise) that have been busts in the United States. The Japan/US transition has actually worked out rather well.

 

Well, here's a list from Wikipedia of Japanese Players in the major leagues. There's some bad ones in there. But I don't know what expectations they were signed under.

 

[DaTank]

Kei Igawa is a bust. His expectations were only a small level under Matsuzaka and the Yanks already want to get rid of him.

[CWSGuy406]

If you're going to go by how past Japanese position players have faired in the US when projecting Fukudome's transition to the American game then there's a damn good chance he's going to be a pretty good player over here similarly to how he was over there.

 

Yeah -- the big thing Fukodome figures to lose over here is some of his power, although (even that) will be tempered by Wrigley's power alleys. I'd say a slightly pessimistic projection is that Fukodome will be an .825 OPS player with good defense -- not a superstar by any means but still an above average (for his position and overall) player, who in today's market is definitely worth what the Cubs gave him. Hell, it'd be tough for me to believe Rowand will at any point be a better player than Fukodome yet he (Rowand) got an extra year and $12 million more.

 

Where did the Jacque Jones comparison come from? That's worse than the somewhat-race-fueled Ichiro or Matsui comparisons. Jones' career OBP is .330 -- I'd eat my hat if Fukodome's OBP is as low as .330.

[Kalapse]

My best estimate is that a 47 would serve a role that player who is no longer with or will not be with the team had. And - it's much more possible Ramirez starts the season in the minor leagues. And I have no fear of what I say - because nothing that I say is libel, nothing is illegal, nothing is against MLB or club policy. I know the difference between important information & information to be given to the public. Would you like me to say that OFP on Ramirez is 75 just to make you feel good? You'll quickly find out the truth & my words won't have much acclaim. Speaking matter of factly is never an issue.

Thanks for all the information you've provided. Honestly, before today I really didn't know anything about the guy, it's good to have someone around with your resources and insight to shed a little light on moves like these.

[southsideirish]

Perhaps they signed him to shut a lot of angry clueless people up.

 

I would rather receive the answer from the poster I asked the question of instead of the poster that started the "Which White Sox player would win in a fight??" thread. Thank you though. I appreciate your insight.

[southsideirish]

My best estimate is that a 47 would serve a role that player who is no longer with or will not be with the team had. And - it's much more possible Ramirez starts the season in the minor leagues. And I have no fear of what I say - because nothing that I say is libel, nothing is illegal, nothing is against MLB or club policy. I know the difference between important information & information to be given to the public. Would you like me to say that OFP on Ramirez is 75 just to make you feel good? You'll quickly find out the truth & my words won't have much acclaim. Speaking matter of factly is never an issue.

 

Hell, I don't care what you post. I asked you opinion as to what the White Sox were looking from him for a reason. What do they see him becoming? Did they really sign him with the intensions of him becoming their future utility player or do they have greater expectations for him? I also don't see the point of someone in the White Sox organization posting things like this on a message board, although I do appreciate it, I am not sure why the White Sox would want that to happen or let it continue.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Kei Igawa is a bust.

A bust I called after watching 90 seconds of youtube video... In Japan, he was getting outs up in the zone with a terrible changeup. That doesn't cut it in the bigs, which the Yanks quickly found out.

[Heads22]

Hell, I don't care what you post. I asked you opinion as to what the White Sox were looking from him for a reason. What do they see him becoming? Did they really sign him with the intensions of him becoming their future utility player or do they have greater expectations for him? I also don't see the point of someone in the White Sox organization posting things like this on a message board, although I do appreciate it, I am not sure why the White Sox would want that to happen or let it continue.

 

 

[Marky Mark]

I would rather receive the answer from the poster I asked the question of instead of the poster that started the "Which White Sox player would win in a fight??" thread. Thank you though. I appreciate your insight.

 

 

Sorry, my apologies Southsiderirish that wasn't meant to be a response to you as a clueless angry person, I just meant the White Sox fanbase who really is clueless for the most part, who won't read on forums, discuss players, check rotoworld for updates, and think critically and in-depth about their team, but instead watches WGN and reads Jay Mariotti entirely for their Sox updates. That wasn't meant to be a shot at you or anyone on this forum.

[southsideirish]

Sorry, my apologies Southsiderirish that wasn't meant to be a response to you as a clueless angry person, I just meant the White Sox fanbase who really is clueless for the most part, who won't read on forums, discuss players, check rotoworld for updates, and think critically and in-depth about their team, but instead watches WGN and reads Jay Mariotti entirely for their Sox updates. That wasn't meant to be a shot at you or anyone on this forum.

 

Not a problem. There is no need to apologize.

[southsideirish]

I am not in the front office - therefore I couldn't tell you. As I said, my best guess, would be that a player with a 47 OFP would take the roster spot of a similar player or provide organizational depth. And nothing I say is against club policy. Who am I hurting by enlightening you? My superiors might even smile & laugh when reading what I'm writing. Because I'm simply stating the truth - while if you truly held up Ramirez to be what he was being written to be - then hit .265-.310-.375 next season - you'd lead the people behind the signing to the gallows. Its not my place to know how or why this signing took place. I'm simply providing his accurate MLB scouting report.

As someone hired to shore-up the player development department (Minor League Player Development & Amateur Players), this would seem like it would fit under what you should know. Shouldn't you know why this signing was made and what they expect out of this player long-term? I know your not front office, but someone that was hired to shore up player developement - minor leage and amateur players - this seems like it would fall under that category and you should know something about it. I truly hope your superiors are smiling and laughing when they read what your writing. I wish no ill will towards anyone. I really do appreciate your feedback and posting - I am just not sure why the White Sox would want it and why you feel the need to do it; however neither is my business and, like I said, I appreciate the information and posts.

[DBAHO]

I think there's a decent chance that Ramirez COULD end up having more power than Infante, if he reaches the majors, just because he'll be hitting in a good power ballpark for hitters, compared to Infante spending the majority of his time at Comerica.

 

But I mean they're only projections that are being given out here. I don't think anyone would have projected Josh Fields to have a .480 SLG % after his 100 games this season.

 

Yuniesky Betnacourt might be a decent comparison maybe for Ramirez. Here's what he's done in the majors so far;

 

05 - .256/.296/.370

06 - .289/.310/.403

07 - .289/.308/.418

 

So he's been steadily improving a little season by season.

[scenario]

The scouting report that I posted earlier was written up by the international scouting director of a NL club and reported in a interview by Chris Kline (Baseball America) in late September.

 

Scout's View: Alexei Ramirez

 

 

[jackie hayes]

So, if I can just summarize the discussion here, I think everyone will agree on the following facts: 1. We just got the next Mays. 2. All Japanese players f***ing suck but all Cubans are frickin' awesome. 3. We have to be patient and let him adjust to the ML game -- it might even be a whole year before he makes Jose Reyes and Curtis Granderson look like rotting poo.

 

Can we say "Consensus"...

[SoxFan1]

Hell, I don't care what you post. I asked you opinion as to what the White Sox were looking from him for a reason. What do they see him becoming? Did they really sign him with the intensions of him becoming their future utility player or do they have greater expectations for him? I also don't see the point of someone in the White Sox organization posting things like this on a message board, although I do appreciate it, I am not sure why the White Sox would want that to happen or let it continue.

 

As someone hired to shore-up the player development department (Minor League Player Development & Amateur Players), this would seem like it would fit under what you should know. Shouldn't you know why this signing was made and what they expect out of this player long-term? I know your not front office, but someone that was hired to shore up player developement - minor leage and amateur players - this seems like it would fall under that category and you should know something about it. I truly hope your superiors are smiling and laughing when they read what your writing. I wish no ill will towards anyone. I really do appreciate your feedback and posting - I am just not sure why the White Sox would want it and why you feel the need to do it; however neither is my business and, like I said, I appreciate the information and posts.

Give it a flipping rest man.

[joejoesox]

so, let me get this straight

 

we basically just signed a bench player, and that makes this team noticably better? why did we sign cabrera and linebrink, then sign a guy who probably won't even be on the team in 2008 but instead be in AAA, along with signing basically a AAA left fielder who was injured last year

 

how do these moves make this team better and more competitive for 2008?

 

[bighurt4life]

Position Players (not pitchers) do not get 48 M and another get 4+ M for no good reason fellas. Ramirez is a known quantity. All 30 MLB teams have seen him play and have the report above in on him. You don't "steal" a player for 4+ M when all teams have their reports on the player turned in.

 

 

thanks for the educated info on our new signing, i always appreciate your posts here and I couldn't agree more on this one. while i do think that the cubs overpaid for Fuku it's not like we somehow managed to sign a comprable talent for 1/11 the price. I'm happy that we made a very low risk move to solidify our ballclub but i'm not expecting the second coming of Jeter or even yuniesky bettencourt. we got a good player who might turn into something down the road for a small investment, for that i am pleased

[bighurt4life]

Give it a flipping rest man.

 

second

 

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

I was excited when I heard this, but after reading up on it, realized I've never seen him play, read the Cuban league is comparable to A ball, and that multiple clubs looked at him and this was the contract that he got could be telling, so now I've come back down to earth as I think my expectations would've been a bit higher

[NorthSideSox72]

Looking at Bureau's very handy information, as well as that from the other scouts that has been scrounged up (nice work, Soxtalk!), it sounds like he could be anything from marginal super-sub to solid starter. For the potential, sounds like 4 years $4.75M is a pretty good deal. I am looking forward to seeing him in ST, and I still think he's going to end up starting off playing part-time with Owens and Richar at CF and 2B, to get adjusted.

 

[Vance Law]

Sounds like Willie Harris, minus the pimp.

 

I'm pretty sure Willie Harris never lead anything, not even the little leagues, in home runs.

[rockren]

I'm pretty sure Willie Harris never lead anything, not even the little leagues, in home runs.

 

Ripping on Willie Ha? I have to object.

[Vance Law]

Yeah -- the big thing Fukodome figures to lose over here is some of his power, although (even that) will be tempered by Wrigley's power alleys. I'd say a slightly pessimistic projection is that Fukodome will be an .825 OPS player with good defense -- not a superstar by any means but still an above average (for his position and overall) player, who in today's market is definitely worth what the Cubs gave him. Hell, it'd be tough for me to believe Rowand will at any point be a better player than Fukodome yet he (Rowand) got an extra year and $12 million more.

 

Murton and Cliff Floyd put up OPS of .790 and .795 for a combined total of $3.4 million last year. Is the possible 30 point difference in OPS in your guesstimate (he could do better, he could do worse, it's just a guesstimate at this point) worth the $9 million per year? I would suggest that it isn't, because of..., um, sanity.

 

I can see Rowand and Fukdome putting up comparable numbers over the next few years. If that actually happens, Rowand playing center field makes him clearly more valuable.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Your body maxes out at 26? I really don't think that is true. Can you please post a link that compares this guy to Omar Infante? I would really like to read it. I have read a lot of good things about this player and I like it.

Fukudome is coming off of surgery on his throwing elbow and he missed half of the 2007 season. He has been compared to Jacque Jones - average all around except for defense where he had to be moved to RF because he couldn't play SS or 3B. I am hardly sold on the guy and think the Cubs drastically overpaid for him. I for one am glad the White Sox didn't get him. There is no way he would have been a good CFer for the White Sox. He basically said that by wanting to play RF instead.

KW offered Fukudome $51 million for 4 years. He signed Ramirez for less than 1/10th of that. I'm thinking no other team offered Ramirez anything near what the offers for Fukudome were, but maybe I'm wrong and Ramirez really wanted to play for the White Sox so he left $47 million on the table. He may turn into a decent player, but to think he's better than or anywhere near the player Fukudome is would be absolutely ridiculous.