Illegal aliens packing up and leaving Arizona.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrant...e.ap/index.html

 

 

This is some really good news. It shows what can be accomplished when you drain the swamps ( employers that hire illegals ) that these parasites flock to when they come here.

[Middle Buffalo]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrant...e.ap/index.html

This is some really good news. It shows what can be accomplished when you drain the swamps ( employers that hire illegals ) that these parasites flock to when they come here.

Can't wait to see all the Americans displaced by illegals get their landscaping and fast food jobs back. Finally, I can order a burger in English.

[Texsox]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrant...e.ap/index.html

 

 

This is some really good news. It shows what can be accomplished when you drain the swamps ( employers that hire illegals ) that these parasites flock to when they come here.

 

I believe you meant back to where they came from.

 

Maybe Buffalo won't be ordering that burger in proper English

[jasonxctf]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/22/immigrant...e.ap/index.html

This is some really good news. It shows what can be accomplished when you drain the swamps ( employers that hire illegals ) that these parasites flock to when they come here.

 

wow, people who are working hard to make money to support their families and put food on their tables are parasites?

[Texsox]

wow, people who are working hard to make money to support their families and put food on their tables are parasites?

 

Of course you are a parasite, unless you come through Ellis Island.

 

The problem is this doesn't solve the problem of who will fill these jobs. An out of work accountant isn't going to pick crops for four weeks. The hard core unemployed will not suddenly abandon their parasitic live off the government because there is a job pushing a lawn mower. I'm all for fixing the problem, but the needs of Americans has to be in the equation. Like our Ag industry.

[southsideirish71]

wow, people who are working hard to make money to support their families and put food on their tables are parasites?

 

Actually they are criminals if they came here illegally. But looking at my new tax bill, and the breakdown for the local school district and the 500% increase in the English as a Second Language budget I can agree with Nuke on the parasite comment as well.

 

 

I would like to ask the illegal immigration contingent here. I love the argument of, well if they left who would do the job. Who did it before they came here. The massive illegal movement is something of the last 15 years. So who exactly did these jobs before. Because the country I believe still ran back then. I see Adults now who cant speak english who work in the fast food industry. When I was 16, it was primary kids in the evenings, and a mixture of retires and some part timers.

 

[santo=dorf]

Would someone "on the other side" please explain to me what the big deal is about an illegal being here, not committing crimes or using our system is? I much rather have some of them instead of our own home grown criminals. How many "parasites" in this country are american citizens, NUKE?

[Texsox]

Actually they are criminals if they came here illegally. But looking at my new tax bill, and the breakdown for the local school district and the 500% increase in the English as a Second Language budget I can agree with Nuke on the parasite comment as well.

 

 

I would like to ask the illegal immigration contingent here. I love the argument of, well if they left who would do the job. Who did it before they came here. The massive illegal movement is something of the last 15 years. So who exactly did these jobs before. Because the country I believe still ran back then. I see Adults now who cant speak english who work in the fast food industry. When I was 16, it was primary kids in the evenings, and a mixture of retires and some part timers.

Last 15 years? Reagan granted amnesty way more than 15 years ago. This has been going on for as long as we've been a nation. Immigrants have done our heavy lifting for over 200 years. From slavery taming the south for farmland to Chinese building the railroads.

[EvilMonkey]

Last 15 years? Reagan granted amnesty way more than 15 years ago. This has been going on for as long as we've been a nation. Immigrants have done our heavy lifting for over 200 years. From slavery taming the south for farmland to Chinese building the railroads.

When Reagan did the amnesty thing, I think the high end was arounf 5 or 6 million that got it. If amnesty were doen today, the new high end number of NEW people getting that would be over 15 million. That is a huge increase.

[Texsox]

When Reagan did the amnesty thing, I think the high end was arounf 5 or 6 million that got it. If amnesty were doen today, the new high end number of NEW people getting that would be over 15 million. That is a huge increase.

 

And if we do not go to the core and fix that problem, it will be 10X worse in another thirty years. The root problem is the needs of American business. For an example I am staying with Agriculture because I believe it is a national security issue on par with oil.

 

The citrus industry here, despite major advances in automation, still requires thousands of workers for a couple months. The packing sheds need people to pack, seal, move boxes of fruit, truck cosmetic flawed fruit to the juicers, etc. Then nothing. The other crops need workers as well. But in between there is no work. Do they collect unemployment for 6 months to work 6? Not good. Think about all the golf courses in Chicago that need landscaping help during the summer, what do those workers do during the winter? So we have nomadic workers that travel from area to area, scratching out a living. The Ag industry has operated that way for a hundred years. Workers, many third and fourth generation, travel each Spring to the US and follow the crops to Fall, then return to Mexico for the winter. Living in cars, or substandard farm houses. Our transition from the family farm to corporate farming has made the situation worse.

 

Our farms are located far from major population centers. The workers need to move and be in those areas for a few weeks or months then move on. High School and college students can't fit the bill. Temporary unemployed can't fill the bill either.

 

We offer an incredible package of social programs for the working poor. Pell Grants for education, child care, health care, food assistance, housing assistance. Anyone using those programs takes more than they pay in taxes. Would it not be nice if we could have millions of these low cost jobs filled without anyone using those benefits? That's were the off the books illegals flourished. The government didn't want to bankrupt the system, so people working without taking was perfect. We've looked the other way for generations as this went on. Tax payers in the US and poor migrant workers in Mexico both benefited from the system.

 

Then people started getting greedy. They used fake documents and collected benefits. They assumed the role of full American worker, something we now are demanding. So we will have the millions of jobs that were off the books, now on the books, and the drain is happening. We can't stop Timmy McVeigh and Malvo, but we can try and stop Mexicans.

 

What we need is a solution that pairs business needs with guest workers who will receive limited benefits while here. Perhaps health but not SS. Perhaps education to H.S. for their kids, but not college.

 

The problem with the fence is it doesn't stop students, tourists, etc from over staying VISAs. Smugglers bring in billions of illegal drugs, people will not be that much more difficult. The fence is symbolic and makes some people warm and fuzzy. But if fences were so effective, why do prisons hire guards?

 

Our unemployment rate is low and has been for decades. If we think $3 gas was an anchor on our economy, try even a small increase in food bills. And do we really want to become even more dependent on foreign suppliers from South America for our food?

[EvilMonkey]

Then people started getting greedy. They used fake documents and collected benefits. They assumed the role of full American worker, something we now are demanding. So we will have the millions of jobs that were off the books, now on the books, and the drain is happening. We can't stop Timmy McVeigh and Malvo, but we can try and stop Mexicans.

We have gone over the need for guest worker programs in other threads, and I am not going to rehash that all here. But one thing about your comment above. The big problem is not that some used fake documents to collect those benefits, its that a huge number of the programs don't even allow the checking of citizenship before the benefits are handed out. So you have many people NOT assuming the role, while still taking the benefits. The self-deportation should work well, as it will be gradual, and allow the system to self-correct.

[Texsox]

We have gone over the need for guest worker programs in other threads, and I am not going to rehash that all here. But one thing about your comment above. The big problem is not that some used fake documents to collect those benefits, its that a huge number of the programs don't even allow the checking of citizenship before the benefits are handed out. So you have many people NOT assuming the role, while still taking the benefits. The self-deportation should work well, as it will be gradual, and allow the system to self-correct.

 

That hole needs to be stopped.

[EvilMonkey]

That hole needs to be stopped.

I think we can both agree on that. And on that note, I leave this thread, and wish you a Merry Christmas.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Would someone "on the other side" please explain to me what the big deal is about an illegal being here, not committing crimes or using our system is? I much rather have some of them instead of our own home grown criminals. How many "parasites" in this country are american citizens, NUKE?

 

 

This'll be a blanket response to you and the others who questioned my "parasite" comment.

 

First, they break the law the moment they cross the border. That makes them criminals from that moment on.

 

Second, many of them steal people's identities or falsify a new one. That makes them criminals twice over.

 

Third, and this one really eats me alive, the amnesty crowd goes on and on about the "contribution to society" these parasites make. Of course they leave out the fact that whatever the pittance they pay in taxes while here is dwarfed by the amount of money states must spend on services for the parasites. Every time they visit the emergency room, every time they put one of their criminal children ( yes they too are criminals too once they cross the border ) in public school, every time one of them hits another driver with their POS 1980 Chevy ( you think these bastards have insurance? HAH! ).....etc.....etc.....etc..... they cost you and me and everyone else money. This runs in the tens of billions of dollars a year nationwide.

 

Fourth, we are also laying out a god awful amount of money to house illegal aliens who commit further crimes after they arrive here.

 

 

All of this madness is because of politicians who are too weak to deal with the problem, or are co-opted by business interests looking for cheap labor, or are pandering to the Mexican community for votes. Its a total disgrace how the government allows this to go on day after day and year after year.

 

 

Santo, to answer you specifically on "American parasites", I have no love lost for them either. I've gone on and on in this forum about how much I hate the safety hammock.....er I mean safety net that is the American welfare state.

 

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I believe you meant back to where they came from.

 

Maybe Buffalo won't be ordering that burger in proper English

 

 

I believe you misunderstood what I said. Read it again closely and then buy me a number 4 combo meal.

 

 

[kapkomet]

I believe you misunderstood what I said. Read it again closely and then buy me a number 4 combo meal.

Ah... eh....

 

Numero Cuatro, largo, por favor. Bebe Coca-Cola. Sin Hielo.

 

Gracias!

 

(And to think, I didn't even have to look this up... )

[jasonxctf]

i guess i'm just out of touch here. I don't understand the harsh, hateful feelings towards these illegal immigrants.

 

if they pured sugar in your gas tank while diddling your mother, I would understand.

 

yes, there are bad people amongst those who come over. SOME, not many, steal identities, traffic drugs, etc, etc. But you shouldn't paint with a broad brush and call them all parasites. Many, not some, come to this country for the same reason as your relatives and mine did. They simply want a better life for their families and to achieve the American Dream.

 

Put yourself in their shoes. If this was a very poor country and your family was starving or struggling to get by and you heard about a great opportunity in Canada to make enough $ to support your family... you wouldn't go?

 

Personally, I'd walk across scorching deserts for days to support my family. Even if what I was doing was "illegal".

 

 

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

i guess i'm just out of touch here. I don't understand the harsh, hateful feelings towards these illegal immigrants.

 

if they pured sugar in your gas tank while diddling your mother, I would understand.

 

yes, there are bad people amongst those who come over. SOME, not many, steal identities, traffic drugs, etc, etc. But you shouldn't paint with a broad brush and call them all parasites. Many, not some, come to this country for the same reason as your relatives and mine did. They simply want a better life for their families and to achieve the American Dream.

 

Put yourself in their shoes. If this was a very poor country and your family was starving or struggling to get by and you heard about a great opportunity in Canada to make enough $ to support your family... you wouldn't go?

 

Personally, I'd walk across scorching deserts for days to support my family. Even if what I was doing was "illegal".

Personally, if I was dirt poor to begin with, I wouldn't be having a family I couldn't feed. Or were they all doing just fine and had poorness suddenly thrust upon them thru some unfortunate accident? And even if I made a choice that I knew was 'illegal', I would also know that there would be consequences were I to be caught. The reason they came here doesn't matter, if they didn't follow the rules, they are breaking the law.

[NorthSideSox72]

i guess i'm just out of touch here. I don't understand the harsh, hateful feelings towards these illegal immigrants.

 

if they pured sugar in your gas tank while diddling your mother, I would understand.

 

yes, there are bad people amongst those who come over. SOME, not many, steal identities, traffic drugs, etc, etc. But you shouldn't paint with a broad brush and call them all parasites. Many, not some, come to this country for the same reason as your relatives and mine did. They simply want a better life for their families and to achieve the American Dream.

 

Put yourself in their shoes. If this was a very poor country and your family was starving or struggling to get by and you heard about a great opportunity in Canada to make enough $ to support your family... you wouldn't go?

 

Personally, I'd walk across scorching deserts for days to support my family. Even if what I was doing was "illegal".

1. If they come here illegally, they are criminals - a.k.a. "bad people".

 

2. Some of them undoubtedly are hard-working people who are desperate to get by. JUST LIKE A FEW BILLION OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. And we cannot just let them all come in and work without some controls. The result would be devastating to this country.

 

3. Part of the blame here does indeed fall on the government's inability to properly gauge immigration levels with economic need. Obviously, the jobs are there - so why aren't there more people being allowed in LEGALLY? On this part of the picture, I agree with you. Some of these illegals should have the chance to be accomodated legally. But that is NOT an excuse for breaking the law.

 

I for one am happy to see this result. Dealing with the demand side of the equation is key here. The wall is a money pit that would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, and thankfully, will never be built. There are a dozen different things that could be done that would as a group be far more effective than a wall, and cost a fraction as much. This type of thing in the article is one of them.

 

[Texsox]

Some of these workers are third and fourth generation migrant workers. There great grandparents followed the crops every summer, it's the life they know.

 

I am uncomfortable with statements that poor people should not reproduce. But many people have looked at selected breeding as a way to improve our gene pool.

[Texsox]

1. If they come here illegally, they are criminals - a.k.a. "bad people".

 

2. Some of them undoubtedly are hard-working people who are desperate to get by. JUST LIKE A FEW BILLION OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. And we cannot just let them all come in and work without some controls. The result would be devastating to this country.

 

3. Part of the blame here does indeed fall on the government's inability to properly gauge immigration levels with economic need. Obviously, the jobs are there - so why aren't there more people being allowed in LEGALLY? On this part of the picture, I agree with you. Some of these illegals should have the chance to be accomodated legally. But that is NOT an excuse for breaking the law.

 

I for one am happy to see this result. Dealing with the demand side of the equation is key here. The wall is a money pit that would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, and thankfully, will never be built. There are a dozen different things that could be done that would as a group be far more effective than a wall, and cost a fraction as much. This type of thing in the article is one of them.

All great points.

 

Starting in January, there will be about 5,000 temporary jobs available here in the citrus industry. There are not enough people here to work these jobs. What group of Americans will be available? Who will move here for two to three months? Last summer shrimp boats went out of business because we stopped the temporary workers from Mexico. Despite ads all over the US looking for workers, not enough traveled here to take these jobs. These businesses had workers, willing, able, trained, and eager to take these jobs. We need to make them legal, not add all the normal benefits, and keep America rolling.

 

I could give a rip if the employees at Kemper have to move their own lawns, or golf course green fees doubled, but losing our agriculture industry has national security implications.

[EvilMonkey]

Some of these workers are third and fourth generation migrant workers. There great grandparents followed the crops every summer, it's the life they know.

 

I am uncomfortable with statements that poor people should not reproduce. But many people have looked at selected breeding as a way to improve our gene pool.

I am not saying there should be a law against poor people f***ing and having kids, but morally, if you can barely feed yourself, what kind of a parent are you to bring another mouth to feed into this world? Your job as a parent is to protect and provide for that child until they can become a functoning adult with whatever skills and tools you can give them to survive. How can you do that if you have no idea where your next meal is coming from? Having children when you are too poor to even care for yourself is cruel to the children.

[Texsox]

I am not saying there should be a law against poor people f***ing and having kids, but morally, if you can barely feed yourself, what kind of a parent are you to bring another mouth to feed into this world? Your job as a parent is to protect and provide for that child until they can become a functoning adult with whatever skills and tools you can give them to survive. How can you do that if you have no idea where your next meal is coming from? Having children when you are too poor to even care for yourself is cruel to the children.

I agree 100%, and I would hope that individuals would make that choice. I don't believe I mentioned any laws. But making a blanket statement that someone should not reproduce makes me uncomfortable. Basically it means that poor people should not reproduce. And as soon as we start making statements about who should, and who should not, reproduce, I get an uneasy feeling.

[Middle Buffalo]

This'll be a blanket response to you and the others who questioned my "parasite" comment.

 

First, they break the law the moment they cross the border. That makes them criminals from that moment on.

 

Second, many of them steal people's identities or falsify a new one. That makes them criminals twice over.

 

Third, and this one really eats me alive, the amnesty crowd goes on and on about the "contribution to society" these parasites make. Of course they leave out the fact that whatever the pittance they pay in taxes while here is dwarfed by the amount of money states must spend on services for the parasites. Every time they visit the emergency room, every time they put one of their criminal children ( yes they too are criminals too once they cross the border ) in public school, every time one of them hits another driver with their POS 1980 Chevy ( you think these bastards have insurance? HAH! ).....etc.....etc.....etc..... they cost you and me and everyone else money. This runs in the tens of billions of dollars a year nationwide.

 

Fourth, we are also laying out a god awful amount of money to house illegal aliens who commit further crimes after they arrive here.

All of this madness is because of politicians who are too weak to deal with the problem, or are co-opted by business interests looking for cheap labor, or are pandering to the Mexican community for votes. Its a total disgrace how the government allows this to go on day after day and year after year.

Santo, to answer you specifically on "American parasites", I have no love lost for them either. I've gone on and on in this forum about how much I hate the safety hammock.....er I mean safety net that is the American welfare state.

I totally agree. Illegal immigrants are the biggest problem facing the US today - and not at all an election year issue meant to distract voters.

 

We've finally balanced the trillion dollar deficit, our health care system is in the best shape it's ever been, the formerly decaying infrastructure has been repaired with much hard work, the war in Iraq has been a resounding success (money well spent), and the President's approval rating is reflected in these successes.

 

America has never claimed to be the land of opportunity. America has never made an effort to bring freedoms to people from other lands. America is the land of the free, home of the brave. Just stay the hell out.

 

 

[kapkomet]

I totally agree. Illegal immigrants are the biggest problem facing the US today - and not at all an election year issue meant to distract voters.

 

We've finally balanced the trillion dollar deficit, our health care system is in the best shape it's ever been, the formerly decaying infrastructure has been repaired with much hard work, the war in Iraq has been a resounding success (money well spent), and the President's approval rating is reflected in these successes.

 

America has never claimed to be the land of opportunity. America has never made an effort to bring freedoms to people from other lands. America is the land of the free, home of the brave. Just stay the hell out.

And our government will fix all your sarcasm too.