ptatc Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 While I agree with the premise of the comment of working on tools you don't have, this seems kind of backwards. From my times in the minors there were many guys with the tool of speed but were awful base stealers due to poor jumps, difficulty reading pitchers etc. These guys needed to work on these things and were encouraged to work on them. The purpose wasn't to rack up SB numbers but to work on the tools needed to be a good base stealer not just a guy with speed. So just because a guy has a certain tool does not mean they don't work on it at all. It's similar to a guy with a great fastball who needs to work on a breaking pitch while you may focus on the weakness you always need to improve on the strength as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 You don't need to try to impress with your knowledge of what type of prospects (or lack thereof) there are in the minors. Anyone who has spent time watching them or working with them know that most have no chance to make it. Just stating some things I observed when I was there and how coaches worked with them. Just because someone has the tool doesn't mean it's refined and it doesn't need to be improved. A tool isn't effective if it's not used properly (OK I couldn't resist that one), You can't tell me that rookie league and A ball players have ANY tool refined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) BE, is there any information/research you can point me to that validates the scouting scoring model? (For example, articles or studies that verify OFP, and the tools measures, as valid indicators of future success/failure.) I'm not looking to start a debate on it, just looking for info. Anything you can point me to would be appreciated. Thanks. Edited December 30, 2007 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) Thanks for the input. Is this the same school you went to? http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...school0123.html I think there have to be statistics somewhere that back up the validity of the scoring model. I'll do some more digging to see what I can find. Edited December 30, 2007 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) The story describes the 12-day MLBSB school held each year for execs and scouts. Is there another longer school? If so, please describe (length, etc). And where can I learn more about it? Also... I found the following quote from an interesting 2003 MLB.com article about this school. Thought I'd point it out for other posters. (BTW - the series of articles linked here is excellent and highly recommended reading.) For several years now (since 1989), the Major League Scouting Bureau has held "scout schools" where Major League organizations can send employees with an interest in player development to learn to scout. Often they are former players who still want to work in baseball or an employee with an interest in becoming a farm or scouting director. The most famous graduate of the school is current White Sox General Manager Kenny Williams, but it's interesting to note that more than 70 percent of the 400-plus students who have been through one of these camps, is working in baseball in some capacity. Once held in Florida, they are now held in Arizona each fall. Edited May 23, 2008 by knightni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 QUOTE(scenario @ Dec 30, 2007 -> 08:16 AM) The story describes the 12-day MLBSB school held each year for execs and scouts. Is there another longer school? If so, please describe (length, etc). And where can I learn more about it? Also... I found the following quote from an interesting 2003 MLB.com article about this school. Thought I'd point it out for other posters. (BTW - the series of articles linked here is excellent and highly recommended reading.) couldn't agree more, great reading for anyone who's interested in scouting or player development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Quick question, for which I will use an example. A guy like Gio Gonzalez has a plus curve, average/plus fastball and average change. What would it take to teach him a cutter? From what I understand, it's only a slight change in the grip, is thrown like a fastball, and would seem like something almost any pitcher could add. Buehrle's cutter is extremely effective, and Loaiza's addition of a cutter in 2003 nearly won him the Cy Young. Can you speak briefly about adding a pitch to a young pitcher's repetoire if they only have 1-2 solid pitches? How would a pitch (slider, change, cutter, forkball, etc.) be selected for the pitcher, and how would the pitcher develop it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Thanks. I'd like to learn more about this. Is there anywhere I can get additional information? A website, articles, or a phone number of someone I can call? Edited May 23, 2008 by knightni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Like this list matters anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:41 PM) Like this list matters anymore. Hey man. This means Adam Tollefson just jumped onto my Top 25. Rock and f***ing Roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Who wants to break-in the *new* top ten? Don't be shy -- just throw ten names at a dartboard and you probably won't be terribly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 1. pete rose jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Bureau, now that DLS, Sweeney and Gio are gone, any chance you can show their scouting reports like you did for Cunningham? If you can thatd be something interesting to see. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 1. Jack Egbert 2. Lance Broadway 3. John Shelby 4. Aaron Poreda 5. Jose Martinez That is disgustingly bad for a teams top 5 prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Mark Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 QUOTE(ChiSox_Sonix @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 03:17 PM) Bureau, now that DLS, Sweeney and Gio are gone, any chance you can show their scouting reports like you did for Cunningham? If you can thatd be something interesting to see. Thanks. I second that request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 thirded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 man this list is gonna be ugly. Rogers said Gio would have been #1, DLS #2, and Sweeney #6. He hinted that Alexei Ramirez would be the new #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 03:26 PM) 1. Jack Egbert 2. Lance Broadway 3. John Shelby 4. Aaron Poreda 5. Jose Martinez That is disgustingly bad for a teams top 5 prospects. 1. Alexei Ramirez 2. Jack Egbert 3. Lance Broadway 4. John Shelby 5. Aaron Poreda Our top prospect is 26 going on 30! Oh, I quad the request for Gio, DLS, and Sweeney info from Bureau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Fifth, it would be really interesting to see how they were viewed from within the organization as everyone on the outside looking in saw gio and dls as the undisputed top two in our minors with sweeny not far behind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsgdf_2 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 FYI - I asked Kevin Goldstein about Poreda today... wsgdf83 (Naperthrill): I've heard bad things about Poreda's delivery - that he's an injury waiting to happen. Have you heard the same? Kevin Goldstein: Not really. It's hardly perfect, but it's not end of the world violent or anything. The more legitimate concern is wether or not his secondary stuff will come -- it's still a pretty special arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 QUOTE(wsgdf_2 @ Jan 9, 2008 -> 10:27 AM) FYI - I asked Kevin Goldstein about Poreda today... wsgdf83 (Naperthrill): I've heard bad things about Poreda's delivery - that he's an injury waiting to happen. Have you heard the same? Kevin Goldstein: Not really. It's hardly perfect, but it's not end of the world violent or anything. The more legitimate concern is wether or not his secondary stuff will come -- it's still a pretty special arm. I've heard from several sources that because of his arm slot and pitching action it would be tough for him to ever develop an effective breaking pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Mark Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(wsgdf_2 @ Jan 9, 2008 -> 12:27 PM) FYI - I asked Kevin Goldstein about Poreda today... wsgdf83 (Naperthrill): I've heard bad things about Poreda's delivery - that he's an injury waiting to happen. Have you heard the same? Kevin Goldstein: Not really. It's hardly perfect, but it's not end of the world violent or anything. The more legitimate concern is wether or not his secondary stuff will come -- it's still a pretty special arm. Although what he said isn't necessarily in a completely different world than what we've been told by our in home Sox scout, The fact that Kevin Goldstein is basing his opinions off of what he hears and not what he examines with his own eyes and mind makes me think that his opinion is unimportant. The more I hear from Bureau the less I care what places like Baseball America, Project Prospect, ESPN, Etc has to say because in reality how much more information could people like that get that we can't? Edited January 11, 2008 by Markbilliards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 QUOTE(Markbilliards @ Jan 11, 2008 -> 04:33 AM) Although what he said isn't necessarily in a completely different world than what we've been told by our in home Sox scout, The fact that Kevin Goldstein is basing his opinions off of what he hears and not what he examines with his own eyes and mind makes me think that his opinion is unimportant. The more I hear from Bureau the less I care what places like Baseball America, Project Prospect, ESPN, Etc has to say because in reality how much more information could people like that get that we can't? I think the fact that the scouts that were responsible for that pick have been canned tells you all you need to know. It also tells you that the Sox internal assessment will likely result in Poreda being traded for whatever they can get as soon as possibl (before whatever value he has drops further). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:56 PM) Fifth, it would be really interesting to see how they were viewed from within the organization as everyone on the outside looking in saw gio and dls as the undisputed top two in our minors with sweeny not far behind Just my own opinion, but if you piece together stuff posted here by the resident Sox scout and look at the Sox actiosn I think you have some indication: 1) Gio: the Sox probably saw him as the their #1 advanced prospect. But they clearly had concerns about flyball tendencies and were looking to raise his trade value since he spent all of 2007 in BHAM to protect him from that AAA bandbox. 2) DLS: IIRC the Sox scout had DLS topping out as a reliever rather than a starter due to stamina concerns and the violence of his delivery. In the prospect media (e.g, BP) people were valuing him as a likely (or at least possible) starter. 3) Sweeney: His lack of a late season callup clearly indicated organizational displeasure. Whether it was attitude or strictly performance is hard to say. I think the Sox valued DLS (especially) and Gio lower than the "prospect media". Sweeney they may still have liked long-term despite last year's performance, but felt they had to include him to get Swisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 03:26 PM) 1. Jack Egbert 2. Lance Broadway 3. John Shelby 4. Aaron Poreda 5. Jose Martinez That is disgustingly bad for a teams top 5 prospects. I'd look for Poreda to really jump in the next 12 months. The early returns from scouts (from people I've spoken with) are extremely good (he's starting to garner a few Randy Johnson comparisons). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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