White Sox Acquire Nick Swisher from Athletics

[Soxbadger]

No Rock and Soxfan,

 

You dont understand

 

As soon as a player is no longer a spect they are old and declining.

 

Because Quentin, Fields, Swisher, Danks arent spects anymore they are old and on the downside of their careers.

[Leonard Zelig]

Not sure if this has been mentioned here yet, but in Kenny's conference call, he said that he told Swisher to be prepared to play most of his time in CF, but also added that his versatility will come into play.

[Jack Parkman]

So what hes not a long term CF most likely. He can play 3 other positions which the White Sox will have a need for in the upcoming 2-3 seasons (LF, RF, 1B) so perhaps he plays out of position 1 season. Big deal, Swisher is now one of the most talented players on the White Sox.

Yeah, so what. Cleveland and Detroit are still lightyears ahead of us.

I assume you are a professional scout or Dr to make a conclusion like this.

Did you read the thread by the soxtalk resident scout?

Top 10 spects by BA in 2006 http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...s/whitesox.html

 

1. Bobby Jenks, rhp

2. Brian Anderson, of

3. Ryan Sweeney, of

4. Josh Fields, 3b

5. Jerry Owens, of

6. Robert Valido, ss

7. Ray Liotta, lhp

8. Lance Broadway, rhp

9. Francisco Hernandez, c

10. Sean Tracey, rhp

As you can see its very hard to say that any 3 spects 2-3 years later would drastically devastate a team.

Thats a horrible idea. The White Sox would lose all the gains they made by winning the World Series within 2-3 seasons. They would go back to being a second class team and the place would be empty. The farm system has sucked for a long time. The scouting sucked. What do you expect? Look at Boston's list from 2005-07. Hanley Ramirez-awesome player Anibal Sanchez-has thrown a no-hitter, but has had TJ surgery. Who knows, but the potential is still there after TJ surgery. According to the guys on the baseball team at my school, a pitcher's stuff improves after TJ.(though both are on FLA) Jon Papelbon-Lights out closer. Clay Buchholz-Threw a no-hitter in his first start.

 

Not to mention the Marlins trade for MLB ready spects. Gio, DLS, and Sweeney were not those types. If anything Swisher is more of a player the Marlins would want, young, cheap, signed for years, and already proven.

Maybe it doesnt, but it makes it much easier for the Sox to put themselves over the edge. Right now if the Sox can get 1-2 consistent durable pitchers they will win a lot more games. Its a work in progress, but to say right now that things dont look better for the Sox for now and the future is kind of silly.

This is exactly what the Sox should do. Trade Paulie, Dye, Thome(if you can agree to get him to waive the NTC) etc for these guys

 

Who was the last top 10 Sox pitching prospect to be an All-Star?

Garland

 

[Soxbadger]

1. Cleveland and Detroit arent light years ahead of anyone. Both teams have question marks. Also baseball is very fickle, a team can win 90 2 years in a row and then win only 70 with almost the exact same team...

 

2. Yes I read the thread. But Bearsox is not a scout. He is posting hearsay which is completely unreliable. You cant just rely on the statements of other people as gospel.

 

3.

The farm system has sucked for a long time. The scouting sucked. What do you expect? Look at Boston's list from 2005-07. Hanley Ramirez-awesome player Anibal Sanchez-has thrown a no-hitter, but has had TJ surgery. Who knows, but the potential is still there after TJ surgery. According to the guys on the baseball team at my school, a pitcher's stuff improves after TJ.(though both are on FLA) Jon Papelbon-Lights out closer. Clay Buchholz-Threw a no-hitter in his first start.

 

Thanks for proving my point. The Red Sox traded Sanchez and Hanley for Beckett. They won a world Series based on that trade.

 

Hanley and Sanchez would be two of the White Sox best prospects in the history of the team, and they were traded for a player who had never pitched over 200 innings in the NL.

 

And Garland was a Cubs prospect.

 

Who is the last White Sox pitcher the Sox drafted and was home grown like DLS or Gio....

 

Cant take credit for some one elses scouting department.

[bmags]

buerhle?

[sayitaintso]

Ruffcorn?

[Pants Rowland]

Who is the last White Sox pitcher the Sox drafted and was home grown like DLS or Gio....

 

I think the last WSox homegrown pitcher to make/start the ASG was Buehrle. As far as top ten prospects drafted by the Sox...Fernandez? Bere? McDowell? StatManDu, where are you?

 

[sircaffey]

I think the last WSox homegrown pitcher to make/start the ASG was Buehrle. As far as top ten prospects drafted by the Sox...Fernandez? Bere? McDowell? StatManDu, where are you?

 

James Baldwin. Started the 2000 All-Star Game I believe.

[santo=dorf]

Gio Gonzalez = Gary Majewski II

 

Seriously, I don't know if I could handle any more spooning of this kid while spending yet another year in AA.

 

When he was traded for Thome his durability and small frame was questioned.

Then when KW had fools' gold in a hungry market (Freddy,) all he got back was a flop in Floyd and the small kid again. Oh wait, this time he's back to being the next Johan Santana/

 

I wanted to see DLS develop, and I was a big Ryan Sweeney fan but as evident by his handling (only played when Thome went down) and Anderson's by Ozzie Guillen, I can see how he isn't in the plans.

 

I didn't realize Swisher was signed for so long at a reasonable rate, and it's good to see the Sox went from the s***ty slap ball who ground out a lot with Erstad to patient hitters who don't make as much contact in Swisher.

James Baldwin. Started the 2000 All-Star Game I believe.

He won it but didn't start it

 

Edited January 3, 2008 by santo=dorf

[Soxfest]

Steep price to pay I hope Swisher is worth it!

[WCSox]

And to think if so many people love this trade for the Sox, they are going to be vastly disappointed for the returns of Dye and Konerko.

 

Didn't Dye's extension include a no-trade clause for '08?

 

[Pants Rowland]

James Baldwin. Started the 2000 All-Star Game I believe.

 

Per Wikipedia, he did not start that game (David Wells of TOR did). Was he a top 10 prospect for the Sox at one point in time?

[DBAHO]

Well this was certainly a shock as I browsed thru the headlines this morning.

 

How do I feel about it. Well mixed feelings really.

 

There's no doubt Swisher is now a key building block for the franchise. At the Cell he should put up a .850 OPS easily, with the potential for more if he can stay healthy. Hopefully he stays as patient at the plate as he's been, because that OBP in the #2 spot would be very, very handy.

 

It all depends on whether he can handle CF though. Because if he can't, then Quentin would have to go to the bench most likely, which makes that trade fairly useless.

 

As for the prospects given up, I rate them a little higher than most have in this thread. People say DLS is 3 years away. Well Brandon McCarthy jumped from high A ball to AAA in 1 season, so it can be done. I think DLS will at least finish up 2008 in AA, and pitchers have made the jump from there to the majors before, so I think he could contribute in 2009. And I don't see him as a bullpen guy. He's got plenty of time to develop the 3rd pitch in his change, and I think he'll be a #3 starter minimum in the majors with the potential for more.

 

As for Gio, yes there have always been questions about his size and injuries etc. But his stuff is pretty good too, and I think if he can stay healthy, he'll be a good pitcher for the A's, with that fastball / curve / change combo. He's probably a bit of a risk, but I like him more than most.

 

With Sweeney, this year is always going to be a big key for him. Is he going to show the power needed. I don't know, I think it's more likely he becomes the next version of Jeremy Reed, and he's a bit too injury prone for my liking, so losing him doesn't hurt me greatly.

 

I think KW has done a good job at building a better young core for this team, which he needed to do, when you look at the ages of the other guys of the lineup.

 

I would like to see that continue though, by dealing either Thome or Konerko to say the Angels in a deal for say Figgins + Adenhart. I doubt it will happen, but you save money (which you can put half toward signing a SP like Garcia or Jennings for 1 season, and the rest towards Latin American signings or the draft).

 

And I would hope without a 2nd round pick, we get the best player available no matter the price, go over slot money if you have to.

[Steve9347]

Which would you prefer?

 

Miguel Cabrera

 

or

 

Josh Fields, Nick Swisher, John Danks

 

More than likely the package headed to FLA for Cabrera would have involed the three we just traded, along with Fields and possibly John Danks.

 

For everyone so pissed we "missed out" on Cabrera, we got Swisher for so much less so you should be elated.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Steve9347

[Balta1701]

Per Wikipedia, he did not start that game (David Wells of TOR did). Was he a top 10 prospect for the Sox at one point in time?

James Baldwin was #8 overall on the Baseball America prospects list in 1994. Right behind this Manny Ramirez dude.

[NCsoxfan]

Check out Swisher's girlfriend - Daniella Gamba....

[DBAHO]

I'm still hoping we sign Miggy in 2 years when he hits FA as well. Probably he'll have to play at 1B I'd imagine, maybe LF, if Swisher showed he could handle CF.

 

A Cabrera - Swisher - Quentin OF looks pretty damn good to me.

[DBAHO]

Check out Swisher's girlfriend - Daniella Gamba....

So we've got a replacement for Pods's wive then.

[Pants Rowland]

James Baldwin was #8 overall on the Baseball America prospects list in 1994. Right behind this Manny Ramirez dude.

 

Thnaks. Very respectable performance out of the top 20 on that 1994 list.

[SoxFan1]

Check out Swisher's girlfriend - Daniella Gamba....

I saw that earlier. As long as she shows up at the Cell, this deal is already worth it.

[Pants Rowland]

I saw that earlier. As long as she shows up at the Cell, this deal is already worth it.

 

"Feel Lucky" on Google with her name and you won't be disappointed.

[knightni]

"Feel Lucky" on Google with her name and you won't be disappointed.

 

Yeah, if you want porn downloaded onto your computer at work/school.

[WCSox]

Which would you prefer?

 

Miguel Cabrera

 

or

 

Josh Fields, Nick Swisher, John Danks

 

More than likely the package headed to FLA for Cabrera would have involed the three we just traded, along with Fields and possibly John Danks.

 

For everyone so pissed we "missed out" on Cabrera, we got Swisher for so much less so you should be elated.

 

I have to agree with this. We got a rock-solid switch-hitting OF with power for a reasonable price, who is still under contract for four more years (and has a one-year option for 2012). And all it cost us was three good-but-not-great prospects. Cabrera would've cost us the ability to rebuild into a contender.

 

I wasn't happy about the Cabrera-for-Garland deal, but I'm really happy about today's news.

 

[Jeremy]

I agree in general, but our farm system was pretty bad before this deal. Gillick dealt Gio for one year of a broken-down Freddy. That doesn't exactly scream "Future stud!" I don't recall DLS being projected to be a super-stud either. Having Sweeney would've been nice, but we're not lacking outfielders at this point.

 

I don't see any value in evaluating prospects based on their trade value a year ago when you can just look at their performance and scouting reports instead. Gio lead the minors in K's so he obviously performed pretty well (though there's room for improvement in some areas) and scouts seem to like him even if they don't love him. DLS is a guy that the scouts do love and he put up impressive numbers last season. I don't think either player is one of the top 20 prospects in baseball but that doesn't mean they don't have worth to the team and couldn't still become very good major league players.

 

Outside of losing Garland, I think that Kenny's done a halfway decent job of doing what he said he was going to: Re-tooling this team for one more shot at the playoffs... especially considering that he had no top-tier prospects to deal. He's improved the team significantly at SS, in the outfield, and we have a legitimate setup man now. I'm not sure that the Sox are a playoff-caliber team right now, but they look a hell of a lot better offensively than last year. And I'm not sure that the 'pen could be any worse.

 

And if things don't work out this season, KW deals Paulie and Cabrera at the deadline for prospects and the Sox get a jump-start on their rebuilding. Sounds like a win-win to me.

 

I agree we're improved, but I don't think we'll make the playoffs. What happens when this push fails and we have a .500 team with a $110 million payroll and no farm system? I've been saying I won't criticize Kenny for taking a win-now approach at this point since he made moves last season that forced the team to go that direction and I can't continuously trash all his future moves for that decision. However, spending money is one thing and trading the last valuable prospects in the system is another. This is pretty clearly an ill advised attempt to win now and rebuilding is hard when you're starting completely from scratch. Yeah, we can start trading veterans once we end up rebuilding but I'm not sure how much value our players will have. I'm skeptical that any will bring back as much as we just gave up for Swisher. Cabrera will bring very little in a deadline deal unless he's having a phenomenal season. Paully will be 32 this season and we don't know what his decline phase will look like. Maybe he brings a pretty solid haul if he continues to perform well and we deal him soon. After that, Buehrle and Vazquez are the only two I can think of who have considerable trade value. We can build through draft picks too but those will take a while. The question becomes, if this current team doesn't cut it then we do we next have a good season again? It's starting to seem as though we'll be looking at a four year rebuilding plan if we're forced to tear things down completely. If we don't contend this season or the next, that means we could be looking at seven years in a row without a contending team. Yikes.

 

i think the same was said when Royce Ring was traded. He then went on to be traded 3 or 4 more times that season IIRC. Sox traded him twice in the last few years and Phillies got him and gave him back so mabye his sh*t isn't as good as everyone thinks it is.

 

Quentin is essentially a prospect himself so yeah, deals of that nature and BMac for Danks aren't a problem in that sense (though it does concern me that Kenny dislikes all of his own prospects). Swisher is signed to a very reasonable contract but he's still going to make $34.8 million over the next four seasons whereas the first six combined seasons from Gio and DLS will cost roughly $3 million. That's a pretty big difference.

 

At what point do you stop trading away pitching and start acquiring some? With prospects being as good as gold recently, where is the pitching going to come from? This team doesn't draft well. This team doesn't develop talent well. This team doesn't commit long-term contracts to SP (Buehrle being the one exception). So if we aren't going to develop it from within and we aren't going to get it from the free agent market, where is it going to come from? I just don't understand the philosophy here. You win the WS almost exclusively on pitching, and suddenly you choose to get rid of almost all of the pitching in this organization. I'm baffled.

 

Kenny is still awfully enamored with his scouts if he's willing to ship out talents like BMac, DLS, and Gio and then plug Floyd into the rotation. He seems to believe he can pick out pitching talent better than everyone else. I guess we'll see if he's right, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

 

We gave up a lot, but when was the last time one of our pitching spects really panned out? Buehrle? Jenks doesn't really count.

 

Do people really believe that for some reason only (pitching) prospects of other teams pan out and not ours? Or do people believe which prospects become good major leaguers and which don't is almost entirely random? I'm confused. It seems obvious that prospects do turn into great major league players with some frequency and that this happens with highly touted prospects much more often than fringe prospects. It seems that if only due to the sheer volume of prospects Kenny has traded away, he's going to move some All-Star caliber players before they ever hit the majors. In fact, it's looking like he's already done it once with Chris Young.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Call me crazy, but, isn't Thome still an injury risk? So you set your team up with Quentin, Swish, and Dye. Thome gets subbed out every 4 or 5 gms. Dye then moves to DH, Swish to RF, and Owens in CF. And inevitably, Thome or Dye will get slowed down with an injury at some point, so then when one of them does, Owens goes to Center, Swish to RF, and whichever of Dye or Thome DIDn't get injured, DH's.

 

 

Sure you can try and trade Dye for some prospects, but then what happens in Thome gets injured again? Pablo Ozuna plays DH?