Who likes the Swisher trade?

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Well, what do you (and everyone else think) about taking a flier on Freddy Garcia or Josh Fogg?

Josh Fogg is a former White Sox pitching prospect. Therefore logically he must suck. However, since we traded him, he has developed superpowers including a 110 mph fastball and the use of a power-ring.

[Balta1701]

Well, what do you (and everyone else think) about taking a flier on Freddy Garcia or Josh Fogg?

Freddie Garcia will probably not be ready to pitch until midseason at the earliest from what most of the reports I've read have said. And from what we've seen of Freddo in the past, how confident are people that he'll be willing to put in the work and conditioning to get himself into shape for that deadline?

 

Josh Fogg might be a reasonable gamble. Threw 165 innings last year. No idea what he's asking for $wise. Had an ERA near 5 last year but that was carried by Coors. ERA of 4.15 away from Coors. I still favor giving the ball to the guys we have and realizing that we still have a line of 7 or 8 potential starters this year, but that's not the worst idea I've ever heard, depending on the $$.

[The Beast]

Josh Fogg is a former White Sox pitching prospect. Therefore logically he must suck. However, since we traded him, he has developed superpowers including a 110 mph fastball and the use of a power-ring.

I'm going to ignore that comment.

 

Josh Fogg might be a reasonable gamble. Threw 165 innings last year. No idea what he's asking for $wise. Had an ERA near 5 last year but that was carried by Coors. ERA of 4.15 away from Coors. I still favor giving the ball to the guys we have and realizing that we still have a line of 7 or 8 potential starters this year, but that's not the worst idea I've ever heard, depending on the $$.

 

I like Fogg. There's just something about him that I liked when he was with us back in the day. If he can take a number 3 role that puts Contreras lower in the rotation, I would be willing to take a flier on him, and I am agreeing with you about the $$ aspect.

[Guest]

the more i think about this, the more i like it. especially, since we'have had much more danny wrights than chris youngs.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

the more i think about this, the more i like it. especially, since we'have had much more danny wrights than chris youngs.

 

... and yet Carl Everett keeps coming back.

[The Beast]

the more i think about this, the more i like it. especially, since we'have had much more danny wrights than chris youngs.

What do you mean by this?

[witesoxfan]

What do you mean by this?

 

Danny Wright sucks

[Wanne]

I've had a few days to mull...and my initial reaction was I didn't like it all that much. But after some Stuart Smalley "Deep Thoughts"...I've really become a BIG fan of this trade. Prospects are just than...prospects. If they turn out...good for them. To tell you the truth I don't even have any of those "what if" thoughts about Young anymore. It is what it is. You (them team and the fans) get the hand you're dealt...either you except it or live in a life of "what ifs". I'm looking forward to the Nick Swisher era in Chicago! And if Kenny can pull of a mega-trade with the Halos for Kendrick and Figgins (which is a long shot but ya never know)...he'll be my new hero and I'll write a him a personal apology for any doubts I had of him heading this team in the right direction for the future.

[gosox41]

Let's see what the general concensus is.

 

 

It's kind of a tricky question. I like the trade based on the fact that it's a better option then Rowand or Hunter due to money and age. And I also like the trade based on KW's attitude of going for it next year.

 

But the reason I don't like this trade is this team should be in rebuilding mod after the last 1 1/2 years. Because of that trades like this should never be made, even though Swisher is young. A team rebuilding doesn't trade it's 2 best prospects.

 

So yes I like the trade based on the going for it in 2008 attitude, but I don't think this team based on how it's set up as of 1/5/08 is good enough to make the playoffs and should have been pretty much blown up and rebuilt

 

 

 

Bob

[BearSox]

I love it... people complain how we have no prospects and then we go and trade our 3 best prospects, everyone then goes, well their just prospects. LMAO.

[lostfan]

I love it... people complain how we have no prospects and then we go and trade our 3 best prospects, everyone then goes, well their just prospects. LMAO.

Meh the farm system just went from really bad to virtually non-existent. There isn't much of a difference. The farm system was already going to have to be rebuilt anyway.

[knightni]

But after some Stuart Smalley "Deep Thoughts"...

 

with Jack Handey.

 

Daily Affirmations was Stuart Smalley

 

[YASNY]

I love it... people complain how we have no prospects and then we go and trade our 3 best prospects, everyone then goes, well their just prospects. LMAO.

 

I understand your frustration, but let's take a look at recent history. Look at some of the Sox' highly touted propests over the last few years. Borchard, Rauch, Reed, Olivo, Young ... of those 5 'studs' none has yet to make anything close to a major impact yet. Young might, but the ship has pretty much sailed on the others. Now let's look at those from the Sox system that have had an impact. Garland, Buehrle, Crede, Rowand .... Buehrle, as good as he has been, was never really regarded as a top prospect. Garland had two 18 win seasons, but how many years did it take for him to get to that point? Even at that, he just recently got to the point that he had earned enough respect not to be called Judy by a reasonably large group here at Soxtalk. Rowand, after a few years in the bigs, turned into a decent starting major leaguer. But again, it took awhile and we had to go through the growing pains with him. The same applies to Crede, and about the time he found his 'mojo', his back started acting up which now limits his effectiveness and his potential.

 

Back to the first 5 I listed, if I'm not mistaken Borchard, Reed and Rauch were all first round picks. As of today, I'd trade all 5 of these guys for Swisher. Hell, throw in Kip Wells too. Prospects are nothing but suspects until they actually prove something in the bigs. Swisher has proven it. If one of those 3 we traded for him pan out for the A's, after a few years in all likelyhood, then the trade works out for them. If two work out, they got damned lucky. Regardless of what happens, today it's an iffy proposition for the A's.

[striker]

It's kind of a tricky question. I like the trade based on the fact that it's a better option then Rowand or Hunter due to money and age. And I also like the trade based on KW's attitude of going for it next year.

 

But the reason I don't like this trade is this team should be in rebuilding mod after the last 1 1/2 years. Because of that trades like this should never be made, even though Swisher is young. A team rebuilding doesn't trade it's 2 best prospects.

 

So yes I like the trade based on the going for it in 2008 attitude, but I don't think this team based on how it's set up as of 1/5/08 is good enough to make the playoffs and should have been pretty much blown up and rebuilt

Bob

 

Swisher is 27 and locked up for 4+ years for cheap. Plus he's a proven slugger. How could you not look at him as rebuilding? I look at it as rebuilding but also being able to contribute immediately and for sure. Our prospects we'd have to wait on and THEN we'd find out if they were any good.

[103 mph screwball]

The Sox ARE rebuilding. They are just doing it in a way as not to lose all of the season ticket base that the World Series victory has earned them. The Sox have no farm because they traded the farm for young talent to use now. Let the next 3 years draft with the new scouting overhaul restock the farm.

 

Crede replaced by Fields

Pods replaced by Quentin

Danks and Floyd to the rotation Freddie and Garland gone

Richar in place of Iguchi

Swish locked up for 4+ years

Mark extended

Dye extended

He's not done yet

 

If Konerko is traded in a deal that lands Kendrick, the Sox will be loaded with young cheap potential all-stars instead of potential serviceable roster fodder. Then, lets think big and sign Johan Santana next off season.

 

This team isn't making a run for this year. KW is making a run for the rest of the decade and beyond. KW is doing exactly what he needs to do, rebuild without losing the fans that allow him to have his NOT CHEAP over a 100 million payroll. Not all of his moves work out. Sometimes he needs to go to plan b,c,d...., but he finds a way. KW sharp, aggressive, loves the Sox organization, and without doubt wants to win badly. Best of all, he learns from his mistakes and moves that don't work and will only keep getting better. I would appreciate it if people would get off of his back. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion and Soxtalk is a wonderful place to express it. I'll just avoid Soxfest so I'm not embarrassed by the fan who has the audacity to scold our GM for not paying 80 mil for Hunter or 60 for Rowand. He deserves kudos for bringing in Swish, Ocab, Linebrink, and Ramirez. If he brings us Kendrick, he deserves a standing ovation. This will get lost in this huge Swish thread, but I feel better. No, I'm not related to KW as far as I know but I'd like to shake his hand, look him in the eye and say thank you and keep up the good work.

 

[max power]

The Sox ARE rebuilding. They are just doing it in a way as not to lose all of the season ticket base that the World Series victory has earned them. The Sox have no farm because they traded the farm for young talent to use now. Let the next 3 years draft with the new scouting overhaul restock the farm.

 

Crede replaced by Fields

Pods replaced by Quentin

Danks and Floyd to the rotation Freddie and Garland gone

Richar in place of Iguchi

Swish locked up for 4+ years

Mark extended

Dye extended

He's not done yet

 

If Konerko is traded in a deal that lands Kendrick, the Sox will be loaded with young cheap potential all-stars instead of potential serviceable roster fodder. Then, lets think big and sign Johan Santana next off season.

 

This team isn't making a run for this year. KW is making a run for the rest of the decade and beyond. KW is doing exactly what he needs to do, rebuild without losing the fans that allow him to have his NOT CHEAP over a 100 million payroll. Not all of his moves work out. Sometimes he needs to go to plan b,c,d...., but he finds a way. KW sharp, aggressive, loves the Sox organization, and without doubt wants to win badly. Best of all, he learns from his mistakes and moves that don't work and will only keep getting better. I would appreciate it if people would get off of his back. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion and Soxtalk is a wonderful place to express it. I'll just avoid Soxfest so I'm not embarrassed by the fan who has the audacity to scold our GM for not paying 80 mil for Hunter or 60 for Rowand. He deserves kudos for bringing in Swish, Ocab, Linebrink, and Ramirez. If he brings us Kendrick, he deserves a standing ovation. This will get lost in this huge Swish thread, but I feel better. No, I'm not related to KW as far as I know but I'd like to shake his hand, look him in the eye and say thank you and keep up the good work.

I agree with you completely. This post shouldn't get lost, I hope it doesn't. People will continue to complain no matter what Kenny does, and only support him when they see results. Its just pure skepticism I guess, and I think being a skeptic is generally intelligent. You certainly don't want to be the opposite, someone who assumes too much. Still, at some point, people should take their skepticism one step further and become skeptics of their skepticism, and instead aim for objectivity. Sadly, that'll never happen to the hoi polloi, and avoiding soxfest, even this board to some extent, is something I've considered as a result.

 

The knee jerk reaction to this post will be "you're avoiding the truth." I am not. If we suck, we suck. I feel there is a good chance of the sox missing the playoffs. I am comfortable with that. A short time ago people were complaining that the sox were the SF giants of the AL. Due to the moves Kenny has made so far, we are younger, more talented, and more financially flexible in the future. Having a group of young guys will be fun to watch for me, to see how they pan out and develop, regardless of if the team wins. Of course wins are important too, and I will let Kenny do his thing for a few more months, and say whatever he wants to say whether he believes it or not, before I judge whether this team can contend. I already think that with a bit of luck, and some of the young guys living up to their potential it can.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

That's an EXCELLENT post. And the sad thing is 95% of Soxtalk doesn't get that, unfortunately.

 

 

If 95% of ST doesn't get it why are 77% in favor of the trade ?

[max power]

If 95% of ST doesn't get it why are 77% in favor of the trade ?

They are not measuring the same thing. One is a statement about a single trade. One is a statement about the make up of the entire team including its farm system. They are related but not the same.

[kapkomet]

If 95% of ST doesn't get it why are 77% in favor of the trade ?

 

 

They are not measuring the same thing. One is a statement about a single trade. One is a statement about the make up of the entire team including its farm system. They are related but not the same.

Exactly. Most people on here can't see what's being attempted. They are attempting to stay afloat in Chicago while they tear down and rebuild the minor league system. This may not win "championships" but it could keep them in the race until the minors can be built back up. I think starting this year we will have a much different approach at the draft.

 

[Soxpranos]

KW doesn't know which direction to go. Rebuild or play for this season?

 

What's the point of developing guys if you never use them?

 

When you lose 90+ games with vets who are past their prime and you have a bloated payroll; the last thing you do is trade your top 2 mlb-potential arms for a guy who - granted, is a good player - is not a solution to your age/payroll problems.

 

He should have dumped Contreras, Dye, Konerko and Thome and rebuilt.

 

I can handle a future of 3 or 4 years of 90 losses if you are making a considered effort to rebuild, but KW is not.

 

 

Well said, not to mention our Pitching sucks .

 

Williams screwed up big time in my eyes.

[lostfan]

Well said, not to mention our Pitching sucks .

 

Williams screwed up big time in my eyes.

I didn't expect for this team to be 100% rebuilt and ready to contend for the AL in one season though. Step 1 was getting rid of the dead weight, step 2 was adding some youth and speed in the lineup. Step 3 is solidifying the rotation unless Contreras trips and falls into a fountain of youth and Danks and Floyd pitch out of their minds and turn into bona fide MLB starters. Danks I can see pitching well enough for a #4, not sure about Floyd.

[BearSox]

I didn't expect for this team to be 100% rebuilt and ready to contend for the AL in one season though. Step 1 was getting rid of the dead weight, step 2 was adding some youth and speed in the lineup. Step 3 is solidifying the rotation unless Contreras trips and falls into a fountain of youth and Danks and Floyd pitch out of their minds and turn into bona fide MLB starters. Danks I can see pitching well enough for a #4, not sure about Floyd.

 

I think Floyd will out preform Danks in 2008... Just another one of my "crazy" baseball theories.

[YASNY]

I think Floyd will out preform Danks in 2008... Just another one of my "crazy" baseball theories.

 

I agree.

[lostfan]

I think Floyd will out preform Danks in 2008... Just another one of my "crazy" baseball theories.

That's not really that crazy. At worst that's unfounded optimism (or pessimism if you're saying Danks will crash)

Edited January 6, 2008 by lostfan

[Felix]

Exactly. Most people on here can't see what's being attempted. They are attempting to stay afloat in Chicago while they tear down and rebuild the minor league system. This may not win "championships" but it could keep them in the race until the minors can be built back up. I think starting this year we will have a much different approach at the draft.

They started the new approach to the draft last year. I mean, people hated that we skipped out on Porcello, but compare last years draft to the previous years, and you'll see there was a huge difference.