Clemens on 60 Minutes

[Gregory Pratt]

Yes, he can tape it. Only, I think, eleven tapes require both parties to consent; everywhere else, only one person can consent to taping it.

 

McNamee emails Clemens and says, "My boy is sick". His boy is very sick. Cleemens calls, they talk. McNamee begs Clemens, essentially, to tell him to take it back; Clemens dodges it. McNamee at one point says he wishes they could talk without any fears (I'm on a cellphone); Clemens says, "I ain't got no one on the line". Big sleazy conversation.

 

McNamee comes off, to me, as someone who didn't want to turn Clemens in but had to to save his ass. Clemens is an asshole for taping it and McNamee an idiot for not knowing he would. f***ed up situation all over.

[RME JICO]

I picked up one little nugget about B-12 shots that I didn't know beforehand from an ESPN piece a few days ago.

Also, here's a BG piece with another witness saying that he saw Clemens inject himself with B-12.

 

Meanwhile, here's a couple doctors asked about Lidocaine usage. They seem to both agree...the strangest part would be getting it shot into your ass.

I heard something like that before, but this confirms it.

 

So basically anyone saying they take B-12 shots are doing so to mask something else they are taking. Now didn't Tejada say that Palmiero gave him B-12, and Bonds said he took it as well?

 

If you need B-12, just take a vitamin.

 

If what he was injected with was truly lidocaine, his butt cheek would be numb.

Now that is funny. Edited January 8, 2008 by RME JICO

[ptatc]

Did anyone else notice that pink/magenta thing (highlighter?) Roger was holding in his right hand? At first, the way he was rubbing it, I thought it was a lucky rabbit's foot, then I wasn't quite sure what it was. But my synopsis of the interview:

 

Roger was vague

Roger never said that McNamee was lying

Roger said he got B-12 (take a vitamin) and lidocaine shots (why put this through systemically when it can be used locally?)

Roger said he popped Vioxx like they were "skittles" because he trusted the people that told him they were safe

Roger averted the lie detector question by saying who knows if they're accurate

Roger was steaming mad at being questioned

Roger is not sure if people will believe him but people that know him, know what's he about (a cheater?)

Roger likely will not play baseball again...unless he decides he wants to play again

 

My take:

Roger was lying [but he didn't pull a Palmeiro with his penetrating eyes, bushy mustache scowl, and pointed finger]

 

Lidocaine does not work systemically. It only works locally.

[iamshack]

Lidocaine does not work systemically. It only works locally.

 

Did he say he actually had the lidocaine shot into his ass though? I thought when he was saying he took lidocaine and B-12 he was answering the question of "Did McNamee ever inject anything into your body"...

[ptatc]

Did he say he actually had the lidocaine shot into his ass though? I thought when he was saying he took lidocaine and B-12 he was answering the question of "Did McNamee ever inject anything into your body"...

 

I'm not sure if the injection site was mentioned but he stated it was for overall body pain not for a localized problem.

[Balta1701]

I'm not sure if the injection site was mentioned but he stated it was for overall body pain not for a localized problem.

You wouldn't use Lidocaine for an overall body pain.

[shipps]

You wouldn't use Lidocaine for an overall body pain.

But you might if you had pain in your forearm or your wrist.

[ptatc]

But you might if you had pain in your forearm or your wrist.

 

One lidocaine injection cannot effect both the forearm and wrist. You would need multiple injections unless you do a nerve block but that would numb the entire area and make it useless for any activity.

[ptatc]

You wouldn't use Lidocaine for an overall body pain.

 

It's not that you wouldn't use it, it's that it CAN'T do it.

[ottawa_sox]

I'm not sure now. Is it possible that Clemens isn't lying? MacNamee never refutes anything Clemens said in the phone conversation. I would have expected him to say, "You know you did it!" or something.

 

I still don't believe Clemens, but I'm less sure now.

 

The conversation was taped by Roger and presented by Roger and his lawyer. If MacNamee said "You know you did it!", do you think the tape might have been edited for our ears? MacNamee is as contrite as possible because he spilled the beans to save his ass. He was looking to crucify himself to appease the great Rocket. I don't know why they played the tape. It proves nothing. Roger's squirming says it all

 

[iamshack]

One possibility is that he was getting B-12 injections and was using the lidocaine to numb the soreness from the B-12 injection (or at least this is what the nurses at the hospital I am working at now told me)...

[Texsox]

One possibility is that he was getting B-12 injections and was using the lidocaine to numb the soreness from the B-12 injection (or at least this is what the nurses at the hospital I am working at now told me)...

 

That was my understanding, but I could not find the link. You use the lidocaine topically, then ram the needle in. Commonly used with children, I believe it is what Dentists use as well before jamming that damn needle into your gums.

 

Sad. I was a big Clemens fan and this really makes me feel bad.

[Middle Buffalo]

The conversation was taped by Roger and presented by Roger and his lawyer. If MacNamee said "You know you did it!", do you think the tape might have been edited for our ears? MacNamee is as contrite as possible because he spilled the beans to save his ass. He was looking to crucify himself to appease the great Rocket. I don't know why they played the tape. It proves nothing. Roger's squirming says it all

Sure. Also, if I was Clemens, I wouldn't have been so composed during the phone call. He's obviously mad, but he's very monotone the entire time. It's like he's saying, "Listen, I need you to retract what you said, I just can't say it. Are you too dumb to understand that I need you to lie for me?" Clemens is a fiery guy, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have been SCREAMING at MacNamee if MacNamee had lied.

 

Guilty.

 

 

[YASNY]

Sure. Also, if I was Clemens, I wouldn't have been so composed during the phone call. He's obviously mad, but he's very monotone the entire time. It's like he's saying, "Listen, I need you to retract what you said, I just can't say it. Are you too dumb to understand that I need you to lie for me?" Clemens is a fiery guy, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have been SCREAMING at MacNamee if MacNamee had lied.

 

Guilty.

 

Clemens was taping the call. If he would have been screaming, the next words you'd hear would have been "Roid rage?"

[The Critic]

"I need someone to tell the truth, Mac...................(it just can't be YOU)."

[Texsox]

Clemens was taping the call. If he would have been screaming, the next words you'd hear would have been "Roid rage?"

 

Depeding on your point of view, any conclusion can be made from that tape.

[Gregory Pratt]

I submit my take on the conversation/Clemens-McNamee dynamic, Pitching a New Game as published by Baseball Evolution

 

http://baseballevolution.com/guest/gregory/clemensrose.html

 

Don't be shocked if Brian McNamee recants his allegations of Roger Clemens' steroid use. Don't be moved by it, either.

 

Following the Mitchell Report, baseball writers wondered whether or not Roger Clemens' Hall of Fame bust had been destroyed or merely sullied. Fans who had never given any thought to Roger Clemens being a steroid user were shocked by the notion. If Clemens is to be believed, his wife and children have become distraught by the media onslaught. Unlike others named who apologized and "confessed," like his good friend Andy Pettitte, Roger Clemens decided to go on the offensive against the Report, and his intentions are clear. No waiting for the news to settle down and go away before he attempts to rebuild in the aftermath of the aftermath -- no, Roger Clemens wants to field a winning team now and on paper, he has reached that goal, hiring an ace celebrity attorney for the frontline, hard-hitting private investigators to solidify his lineup, a cool manager in Mike Wallace, and, perhaps, the love-children of Richard Nixon and Meyer Wolfsheim to set the table.

 

Just thinking about The Rocket's Amazing Spinning Circus makes me dizzy, and that is how I felt during yesterday's press conference, when he played a tape of his private conversation with Brian McNamee over the weekend. McNamee, in case you have been living in an abandoned dugout somewhere, sent Clemens an email telling him that his son was sick and dying. That is how the conversation began, but it soon became two men talking to themselves with the other listening. It is my suspicion that they were both attempting to entrap the other. Roger Clemens said, several times, "I just want someone to tell the truth" and McNamee screamed, "Tell me what you want me to do!" He also stated that he wished they could talk face-to-face and told Clemens he'd be willing to go to prison for him, if only Roger would give the word. A couple more excerpts:

 

McNamee: It is what it is, and it's not good. And I want it to go away. And I'm with you. I'm in your corner. I don't want this to happen. But I'd also like not to go to jail, too. But it has nothing to do with you. But I would like to sit down with you in person and talk with you.

[...]

McNamee: I reached out to you because -- I mean, I tried to help as much as I could, as late as I could. And it was too late, I guess, to help. But what it comes down to is the way it affects our kids. They got nothing to do with this. They've got nothing to do with any of this.

 

Here are my thoughts on the McNamee/Clemens dynamic. McNamee, like any trainer and friend worth a damn, did not want to turn Roger Clemens in to the Mitchell Investigation. He resisted and only relented when it became apparent that he had to to avoid going to prison. Nobody wants to go to prison, especially not a man with children, which was why he had to turn Roger Clemens in. Now he is having regrets, partly because of the pressures this puts on himself and his family (don't kid yourself -- there might not be anything more exhausting than a media storm), partly because of his friendship and hero worship of Roger Clemens, and partly because he is distraught. He has likely lost a great friend for life, and he is on the verge of losing his son. Now he is all choked up facing situations he never imagined he'd have to face and is likely unprepared for.

 

I'd hate to be his attorney, who today declared war against Roger Clemens for manipulating McNamee, because I wouldn't be sure whether or not I could trust McNamee to keep his mouth shut and his heart hard.

 

It is clear to me, and always has been, that Roger Clemens was using steroids for as long as I remember (I am, after all, eighteen, so I only really remember his steroid peak). I didn't need McNamee to tell me that, although others have, and I am not the only one who heard the whispers. Steve Phillips mentioned it the night the report broke. But I am disturbed by the McNamee situation for numerous reasons because of the effect it could have on his "legacy." Let's say McNamee cracks somehow and recants, which is unlikely but possible, and not altogether mind-boggling to consider -- then what happens in the world of public perception? Roger Clemens is no longer a steroid user, because his buddy was too weak to stand by himself? Clemens versus McNamee is a brutal mismatch: a tough-as-nails Texan (on steroids) fighting a patsy behind-the-scenes fanboy who idolizes him. Who will stick to his script longer? I have no doubt that McNamee's script is accurate, but will he continue to read from it, or will his admiration take him back?

 

All I know for sure besides Roger Clemens' guilt is that Clemens is playing a dangerous game that only one other man in the history of baseball has played before (and lost). He has decided to attack McNamee and Mitchell and the charge, throwing at its head as if it were Mike Piazza. Will his strategy of intimidation, Spinning Circus, and adamance work? Is Brian McNamee more like Mike Piazza (a shrinking flower) or more like Manny Ramirez (a bat-wielding, hard-charger)? If McNamee is Piazza and backs down, will Clemens be vindicated? Maybe, but it's a stretch. It is out in the open now, and there is no place to go when your reputation has been destroyed. It is worse when you come away "innocent" but still appear guilty and almost certainly are guilty, like with OJ Simpson.

 

Still, Roger Clemens denies using steroids, and who knows how long it'll take him to say, "We were all using, and I'm hypercompetitive -- I had to," or if he'll ever say it. But if he does come clean someday, before he makes the Hall of Fame, he might be in for a life of exile. Does that sound far-fetched or ridiculous? It should, because it's far too soon to talk about that. But if he continues down his path of denialdenialdenial and nobody believes him, and eventually he comes out and says "Yeah so I was lying all those years," he might wind up like Pete Rose, the only other man to play this game at this level. Yes, at this point some sort of banishment and almost-universal scorn is unlikely, but the same could've been said for Rose when the rumors first surfaced. Look at him now, and tell me you don't see a little bit of Roger Clemens in him.

[ptatc]

That was my understanding, but I could not find the link. You use the lidocaine topically, then ram the needle in. Commonly used with children, I believe it is what Dentists use as well before jamming that damn needle into your gums.

 

Sad. I was a big Clemens fan and this really makes me feel bad.

 

Lidocaine can be used topically like that. But it and xylocaine are the most commonly used local anesthetics. We use the topical version for tennis elbow and other localized tendonitis condition through an electrical device called iontophoresis. The local anesthetics in sports medicine are usually injected into joints to decrease local pain. Anti-inflammatory meds are more commonly used in soft tissue.

 

Basically there is no reason to do this kind of thing unless illicit things are involved. Hell, MacNamee even doing an injection is illegal. He is not trained or qualified medically to do these things.

[Kid Gleason]

What is wrong with MacNamee's son, and why is he losing him? Is he gravely ill?

[Gregory Pratt]

I don't know all the details but yes -- McNamee has described him as "dying" and from what I read (though I don't remember perfect) he has some very serious disease.

[shipps]

Was Mcnamee taping the call also and trying to bait Clemens into saying "I want you to lie" when he kept on asking him "What do you want me to do?.

[Balta1701]

Was Mcnamee taping the call also and trying to bait Clemens into saying "I want you to lie" when he kept on asking him "What do you want me to do?.

Unless McNamee has some setup where he tapes every incoming call, I certainly doubt it. It's against the law in most states (Not Texas where Clemens lives, not CA also) to tape phone calls surreptitiously, and IIRC he didn't know Clemens would be calling in advance did he?

[shipps]

Unless McNamee has some setup where he tapes every incoming call, I certainly doubt it. It's against the law in most states (Not Texas where Clemens lives, not CA also) to tape phone calls surreptitiously, and IIRC he didn't know Clemens would be calling in advance did he?

Well he did email Clemens to call his son.But I dont believe his son was living at the same place as his son.But everyone has caller id and he could have seen when it was Clemens and set the record.Pretty concievable this day and age.

[Lemon_44]

Clemens's very first excuse in the Wallace piece was pretty stupid. Clemens was asking where are the syringes if he was being injected and that it would be known if he bought a bunch of syringes. That's prety flimsy in itself but wasn't there syringes when he shot up with butt numbers and B12? Clemens is scrambling for whatever he can try and grab onto. It's pretty funny to watch.

[Harry Chappas]

Well he did email Clemens to call his son.But I dont believe his son was living at the same place as his son.But everyone has caller id and he could have seen when it was Clemens and set the record.Pretty concievable this day and age.

 

That was how I understood it. McNamee left a message asking Clemens to call his very ill son as his son loved Clemens. Clemens did not call his son and instead tried to bait McNamee. I also believed that McNamee and his son are not in the same place so a call to his son would be contacted by McNamee. Nobody is even saying how s***ty it is that he not call the sick kid that has nothing to do with Clemens who Clemens knew and instead tried to set up McNamee.

 

This whole thing starting to set Clemens up for disaster as it appeared that McNamee really felt bad for doing what he had to stay out of jail and Clemens is starting ot look liek a real jag off.......I wonder if McNamee ahs some real evidence against Clemens. You notice Bonds never pissed on Anderson's Cheerios and Anderson went to jail for him.

 

McNamee has the cards in this thing if he has some good stuff and as Pratt has stated, he could turn Clemens into Pete Rose.